Hey Jer! Didn't you notice the brochures for Disneyland in the lobby of your Paris motel? It has a map and, get this, directions in English? How did you manage to get out of France? Where did you go?

I might have taken Jerry seriously if he had refrained from showing his incompetence in his last posting … I can understand feeling confused by a transportation system like Paris if you've never experienced a subway, being upset at not finding English-speaking people at train/metro stations in an international city like Paris, the occasional boarding of the wrong train, but blaming his unpreparedness and lack of attention on the transportation system and pretending that everybody here is trying to hide their similar experience is absolutely hilarious. <BR>Funny, last time I was in Paris (May), I didn't notice the hordes of exhausted and hopelessly lost American tourists protesting against the "whaked" transportation system Jerry is writing about... <BR> <BR>To Elsegaard and abc: <BR>"Also since I have heard complaints of people who actually want to speak French being immediately cut off and responded to in English there seems to be a rather annoying game going on here." <BR> <BR>No, most people do that without realising they could hurt the other party's feeling. It goes like this: "his/her French is too poor, and since I can speak English (or Japanese, or Spanish), better give him/her an answer in a language he/she can understand instead of wasting his/her time". The second reason is "here's a good occasion of practicing my language skills". The third, and most annoying, is "Everybody knows foreigners can't speak French (or Japanese, or Spanish, or Arabic), even though I just had the feeling I could understand this one, but nevertheless ...". The same situation happens wherever you travel in the World. <BR>

Jerry made the common mistake of assuming everyone in Paris would be fluent in English. Most know enough to get by in their jobs (desk clerk, waiter, shop clerk) but are far from fluent. It is arrogant and rude and completely unfair to expect that all Parisians assist you in English while all you've learned is "Bonjour". It is even more ridiculous to attempt using an unfamiliar public transportation system without even a map. How was a clerk supposed to respond to "Disneyland", Jerry? Let's see, does he want to go to Disneyland, does he want a ticket to Disneyland, does he want to know if he's IN Disneyland? If you were telling them all you needed to get to Disneyland where your car was parked and probably speaking much too fast I'm sure they thought they had misunderstood you. It's your own fault you didn't have a wonderful time. English is NOT spoken "the world over" and where it is it's by the more educated people. Not everyone you encounter every where you go and expect to assist you when you've done no research or planning on your own. I be you never once "can you help me please"?

I am not going to even read your responses. You would be hard pressed not to find a Spanish or Japanese speaking guide at any major travel spot in NYC. Having said that I have the sneaking suspicion you are a troll. You were in another country pal. France does not have the economic power that the U.S. does expect this to be reflected in some public services. Kenya is an international travel destination of many also. Would be this alarmed if you had trouble in Kenya. <BR> <BR>I am not head over heels about Paris either. I think it is noisy, polluted and a big city. I would not attack it because I could not find the services I would expect in New York City. If you are a troll, fade away please, your mission is accomplished. If you are not a troll stop making us look like idiots. <BR>

Jerry, <BR>I am surprised you found your way to the airport back where you live. I am surprised you found your way to the gate where your plane was departing. <BR> <BR>Picture this: <BR>Some American troll wandering around repeating "Disneyland" "Disneayland" "Disneyland" "Disneyland" not knowing where to go, just stepping into trains and train stations uttering "DISNEYLAND" <BR> <BR>I agree with previous posters before, you probably went to Disneyland because you assumed that was the only place they probably spoke Good Old American English. <BR> <BR>you are troll! And you should not put everybody down and tell them they are lying about their experiences in France.

Poor Jerry thinks he has to get off the metro at every stop to buy a new ticket. C'mon Jerry. Any Paris guidebook can tell you how to use the metro and which RER line to take to Euro Disney. You can't expect anyone to believe that you really did research before your trip.

Re: "Just be aware Americans (especially those who've never used a public-transportation system before), it is confusing and hard to navigate. Don't let some of the messages on here fool you. Most of these people are glamorizing a trip that maybe wasn't all that glamorous." <BR> <BR>Jerry, if someone has <I>never</I> used a public transportation system before, I've little doubt that a system like the one in Paris -- or any other major world city -- could be confusing. That is something people should indeed be "aware of." <BR> <BR>However, for a major world city, I find the system in Paris -- and have <I>always</I> found the system in Paris -- very easy to understand and use. One exception I can think of offhand is the extensive St.Michel station where the RER and Metro intersect; I've found that to be a bit confusing on occasion. <BR> <BR>Anyway, your comment that "Most of these people are glamorizing a trip [to Paris]..." is simply an assertion that seems to stem from your frustrations, your problems. Just because you may have been legitimately confused doesn't mean other people must have been as well.

The Fodor Snobs jumped all over this one. How dare you not like something European. You should know that on this site anything American=Bad and anything Euro=perfect.

The first time I went to France, I spoke just a little bit of French - of the "bonjour, comment allez-vous au jour d'hui?" variety you learn when you attend UK kindergarten for future EU citizens. I was with my mother, who speaks fluent French but believes in letting her philistine daughter do the talking & learn the hard way. I started out determined to speak FRENCH ONLY - I approached people and launched into conversation as if I were Parisian-born, but my vocabulary of about 350 words ran out pretty quickly. I pulled out the dictionary & phrasebook we'd packed - and which I'd ignored up to that point - and studied up. One of the most useful phrases I (re)-learned was "parlez-vous Anglais?", and I was surprised to see how often the answer was "non" or "un petit peu". But after a couple of weeks, you know what? I was happy to hear that "non", because it gave me license to struggle through a conversation in my very rudimentary but rapidly increasing French without feeling self-conscious - after all, how bad could I feel that my French wasn't up to snuff if my conversation parner didn't speak ANY English? By the time I left France, I was able to really communicate - albeit ungrammatically and in the vocabulary of an eight year old! The reason I am posting this here is that I have seen very many posts, on this site and other travel BBs, claiming that French people/Parisians speak fluent English and that there is no language barrier and that communications, even for people who speak French, are not an issue. Jerry, troll or not, is correct in pointing out that this is untrue. In my opinion, there's no reason why French people SHOULD speak fluent English, but let's be honest - for the most part, they do not. And for people who've travelled in other parts of Europe - Scandinavia, Germany, Netherlands, Italy - where English IS commonly spoken, that can be a surprise. So please, don't perpetuate the misconception that one can really "experience" Paris - much less France as a whole - without a reasonable knowledge of French!! Maybe you can, following a touristy itinerary and spending a bundle, but otherwise - be prepared. Take a class, bring a phrasebook & dictionary, travel with someone who knows the language. You'll have a much better time and maybe hope to catch a glimpse of the "real" France.

Two things are obvious from this thread: <BR> <BR>1) Jerry, troll or not, had a bad experience in Paris. <BR> <BR>2) There are some very rude people on this thread. <BR> <BR>My comments for whatever little they are worth:I speak both Chinese (the world's most spoken language according to one person posting here) and English. I did not have a good time in Paris the first time I went there. The metro was confusing because it is so huge. Some Parisians were nice but others were immensely rude and arrogant - and French is one of the foreign languages I've taken. <BR> <BR>It goes with the territory of big cities, I don't like Frankfurt, New York, London, etc. because some people in big cities tend to forget their manners too often. <BR>On another trip I drove into Paris, another mistake. <BR>Jerry, if you do go back, go into the countryside. Especially the German countryside. It is very driveable and should be easy as a first motoring trip. <BR> <BR>The rudest and most arrogant people I've encountered abroad are fellow Americans - as a group. The rudest single person I've ever encountered in my numerous travels was an Italian woman in Beijing who kept screaming and yelling at the Chinese store clerks who were looking at her in terror - not understanding a word of her screams. When my companion, who is French and speaks fluent Italian and Spanish besides, and I approached her to see if we could help, she turned a totally cold shoulder towards us. Guess she just enjoyed yelling and screaming. <BR> <BR>Otherwise, Americans do tend to have unreasonable expectations. I once worked with a man who found Europe the most wonderful place on earth, but when he was in Asia he insisted on conducting all his business meetings in English ("It's the language of commerce! They should learn English!") and wondered aloud why Asians were so backward as not to have a MacDonald's on every corner - for his convenience of course. <BR> <BR>I guess the message here for future visitors - to Paris or anywhere else- is: don't expect others to behave like you, speak like you, eat like you, have the same "ratonal" sign system as you - and you'll have a great time. Part of the great enjoyment of travelling for me is precisely in getting to know of other ways of life besides those familiar to me. <BR>Enjoy your next travels, Jerry, wherever life may lead you next.

First off, it doesn't offend me. I just think it's a shame. I mean, I pesonally dislike Germany and feel that most Germans I have come in contact with are quite rude. To each his own, there is no reason to get defensive. <BR> <BR>The first time I went to Paris I was 18 and went with a couple friends. We were even there on Bastille Day so the city was super crowded. We got around fine and loved it. The French were nice and helpful. We were shocked because we expected the rude French stereotype. The four of us were born and raised in the same very small town and only one of us had ever been out of the country before this trip. None of us spoke French except we learned a few phrases and brought along a phrase book. I've been back to Paris two more times since then and look forward to returning again. <BR> <BR>I don't think there is any excuse for being so incompetent, ignorant even, as to leave after two days because you basically can't figure things out. WTF is that all about? If this guy is for real I would think he'd be too embarassed to post about his Parisian vacation...or at least he should be.

Jerry, I am sorry to hear about your trip. I travel to Paris on business every couple of months. And I know the french people can be very distasteful and quite arrogant at times. Unfortunately, I and many others have become immune to it. Even though I do speak some french, I can still notice their unfriendliness. They do believe that they are superior to ALL non-french speaking societies. It's part of their culture. Even my french friend Bettine, admits this to be true.

In my own home city, I've been asked for directions many times by tourists. I've yet to have such an encounter with a non-English speaking person. That the encounters have not always been wholly satisfactory for either or both parties proves that having a language in common is not the only reason why communication can fail. <BR> <BR>I can navigate myself, or give directions to others, by either using the points of the compass, or by landmarks, or most often, a combination of both. But that is no help for those situations wherein the people I'm trying to help have trouble with both methods. These are not skills that can be taught in a 3 minute conversation conducted in English, still less in a foreign language. <BR> <BR>Jerry, your dilemma could have arisen in any city. Your hard-won lesson of studying a map is sound. It is the universal language of compass and map we need to learn as travellers.

Sadly, you had a typical American experience. Without being insulting, you probably acted as typical Americans. <BR> <BR>Did you learn any french phrases before you left? I had heard such horror stories about Paris before I left, that I decided to do some reading on the city. (I am an experienced traveler in Europe, and am not uncomfortable when I can't speak the language) I learned that the French find American ways abrasive, and expect people to treat them politely. So I learned how to say "excuse me sir/madam/miss, do you speak english". That was more than enough to bring on smiles and open doors for us. <BR> <BR>My advice for traveling to France? Don't act like an American. When you approach someone, be polite and do your best to speak at least a phrase in French.

why keep it such a secret that France is so lousy? WHY can't we just admit it really is awful and then be done with it, glad we were truly honest with ourselves and prepared not to make the same mistake again?

I am reminded of the expression "casting pearls before swine." But not to worry our unsophisticated friends, this is why they created Hawaii.

Having lived and worked in Paris for a few years, I empathize with Jerry. I also feel that alot of people on this board were extremely rude to him (the Disneyland stuff was 'degueulasse')<BR><BR>I met some fabulous people in Paris who would invite me to their homes or summer cottages much faster than people in America would. <BR><BR>I also met many people who enjoyed playing the same tired old games with me after they 'logiquement' fitted me into the role as just another 'sauvage' American. These are the games many 'anglo-saxons' have to deal with when visiting.<BR><BR>As anywhere, the targets for such rude behaviour are usually people who are less attractive or travelling alone. The sources of the behaviour are more often than not younger people.<BR><BR>On the streets of Paris I often read the following sign every few blocks: "L'enfer, c'est l'autre" (hell is another person....Sartre).<BR><BR>The Existentialism of Sartre , widely taught in French schools, essentially would blame the target of rude behaviour for having brought it upon himself to be treated thusly. <BR><BR>Travelling is not just seeing the sites but experiencing another culture, warts and all.

I would like to say our family went to Paris and other areas of France in June and we had a Great time! We had heard the stories of rude people also. Everyone was helpful we had No problems (except with air france) Our kids, ages 12 and 7 cannot wait to go back! They talk about our trip all the time! This year we are taking them to Italy and they want to go back to Paris!

So I guess we've figured out that there are rude people in Paris, so-so people in Paris, and wonderful people in Paris.<BR>It also seems that there are Rude Americans visiting Paris, and considerate Americans visiting. Gee what a shock.

A friend of mine said that the most delightful moment she ever spent in a French cinema was watching an American film with French subtitles where the female character throws up her hands and says, "Isn't there anyone who speaks English here?"<BR><BR>The audience roared. They needed no translation--they hear it everyday.<BR><BR>Am ashamed of you, Jerry. My kids do better. Go to Epcot's Paris--that's about all you seem willing to handle.