Jerry, <BR>I am sorry Paris was not what you expected. <BR>We have traveled to Paris a couple of times, and our knowledge of French is minimal. However, we learnt to say Thank You, Please, and other important words in French. We never had a problem, people were not rude to us. Not everybody was extremely nice to us, but that is just human nature. <BR>It does not matter that Paris is a top tourist destination. I live in NYC, and yes I have used public transportation plenty of times, but I would not go to Paris expecting everybody to speak English. <BR>I would found it rude if a bunch of tourists in NYC started speaking Japanese or French to me, and expected me to speak their language. I would expect them to at least greet me in English. I live in NYC, and international tourists do not just start speaking a foreign language to me demanding I speak their language just because NYC is a top tourist destination. <BR>This is probably what people in this forum call a troll. <BR>

Actually, Jerry, the first time I went to Paris was as a tour guide - in a city I'd never been to before. I was scared s****less. But I found it to be incredibly easy to navigate. I spoke French, so the language wasn't a problem.I had spent weeks, months, probably, studying maps of Paris and learning where everything was in relation to everywhere else ahead of time. I knew the Paris métro like the back of my hand because I had studied it for months ahead of time. I was responsible for 24 14-year-olds who were other people's sons and daughters, some of them the daughters and sons of US diplomats, who weren't going to be happy if things didn't go well in Paris. But that aside, Paris is a REALLY easy city to navigate,Jerry -you must not have taken the time to do your homework. Sure, it's a big city, but it's a REALLY easy one to get around in.I think there must have been something else at play here besides your general reluctance to yield to the local culture, but we shall see perhaps.

Jerry, <BR> <BR>I think you will find it quite common that people go to other countries by themselves and not part of any tour group. I personally belong to this category. Understanding though that any country has its own customs I try to learn as much as possible before I go so that my expectations are somewhat defined and my experiences are somewhat predictable. <BR> <BR>Some people, and unfortunatly often Americans (even thouse high up the chain), expect every other place on Earth to look like their own backyard. When they find it is simply not the case they get frustrated. Those people I call ignrant. <BR> <BR>Some other category of people just don't have enough time to do much planning. They hear it is nice in Paris, they know France is a civilized country so they think that the trip would be not much different then going from LA to NYC. Language issue does not even come up. Again, their expectations will not match with reality and they get frustrated. I feel sorry for these people beacuse due to circumnstances they cannot see what is there to see in Paris (or any other place). <BR> <BR>If you belong to the second category I sincerelly applogize.

Jerry, <BR> <BR>I had two visits to Paris. On the first visit, I didn't know the bit about speaking French to open a conversation. Really. The result was enough to just about reduce a person to tears. You ask for something in English as nicely as you can, and you get waved off, as though you smell bad or something. Not fun. <BR> <BR>On the second trip, I arrived with the basic French phrases (thank you, please, good day, do you speak French), and guess what? Paris just opened right up for me. People were very nice and helpful. So I say, try again someday if you wish, or not. But if you do, learn the basics, and be prepared to find your own way around. It takes study, but it isn't that hard. <BR> <BR>Better luck next time.

Jerry, <BR> <BR>Although not being one of the "belittlers", I'll tell you a bit of my first time in Paris. I was a little scared, since it was my first trip abroad at the age 39. I had flown to London, and then Bombay and Poone, but I had a companion with me. I stayed 40 days in India, then came back to London, where I spent like five days in a friend's apartment. I explored London mostly on my own, though, and started to navigate the tube, which, by the time, didn't exist in Rio de Janeiro, where I live (beware that I'm Native Portuguese speaking, not French, or English speaking). I'm a very badly oriented person, who has to wave both hands to figure out which one is the left, and which is the right. Nevertheless, I had this urge to explore and get acquainted with a, by the time, first world experience, so, I learned to use the tube in London, learned how to figure my way out. After that, I flew alone to Paris. I got to CDG, took the Air France bus to Place de l'Etoile, carrying my suitcase steps down, and then up again, for I got the wrong direction. I finally realized which gate was right, but didn't get to my hotel without having to make a connection at another station. When I stepped out the Motmartre station stairs, and realized I was there, and that my hotel was around the corner, I nearly fainted. <BR> <BR>After that first impression, I had many pleasant experiences, and a few not so, including getting lost in Paris, many, many times, which, BTW, I loved, also because I had a good map, and when I wanted to find my way back, I did. <BR> <BR>The big difference from your experience is that I was mentally prepared, I had the right mind set, and I was very flexible, taking Paris as it was coming to me. I went once to a supermarket, and an old lady almost hit me with her umbrella because I had, accidentally hit her with my bag, but I also helped out another old lady, who was nearly blind, to cross the street, and she was very kind to me afterwards. <BR> <BR>So, I guess that there isn't such a thing as a bad place, but the wrong mind set. I'm not blaming you because your experience was bad, I'm just trying to advise you to being aware when making your future choices_ aware of your wishes, expectations, and possibilities. <BR> <BR>What distinguishes us, humans, from other species is that we can always adapt, to be flexible, as far as we know what we want, to make the right choices. <BR> <BR>Surlok

Jerry, <BR> <BR>Sounds like you just got a bad shock, and I hope it won't sour you on European travel. Sounds like the combination of a different language, a big city, lack of preparation, and unrealistic expectations spoiled what should have been a wonderful experience. <BR> <BR>A few tips to put things in perspective: <BR> <BR>1. There are different concepts of "rudeness." The French may not automatically smile as Americans do, nor do people in big cities present as "friendly" a front as those in smaller ones might. Parisians *will* consider it rude if you just approach them with a question without saying "bonjour, Madame/Monsieur" first. Consider, they may have thought you were being rude to them! <BR> <BR>2. Yes, you do need to prepare if you want to have a good time travelling abroad. This includes, at the least, learning a few phrases and studying maps and guides. Without doing this, foreign visitors would feel just as lost in *your* home town. <BR> <BR>I am guessing from your posts that you haven't travelled abroad very much. Give yourself another chance, and next time, prepare. With more realistic expectations, (no, everyone does not speak English, why should they?) you can learn to love foreign travel. <BR> <BR>Someday you may go back to Paris, and this time, enjoy the experience. <BR>Best wishes.

Hang in there, Jerry. Your experience is not that uncommon. I'm sure we are both quite lovable and not in the least bit rude. But the fact is that many french people won't give you a break and will be rude first. It happens. I think some people here are in denial.

I don't want to be judgmental, but I do find it surprising that the Metro system would be called confusing. I am normally someone that has a hard time with directions, and I find NYC, which I live near, very hard to get around. No matter what directions I get, I always have to ask someone on the street. Paris, however, is a breeze....at least that's what I've found. I'm very comfortable getting around Paris because the Metro maps are easy to read, and the system is very efficient (when they aren't on strike!). <BR> <BR>The Parisians I've encountered have been wonderful. On my first solo trip, one woman, who spoke no English, not only helped me with my bulky suitcase up the steps from the Metro, but paid for another ticket, when I discovered I lost mine. Last year, at a dinner in Bofinger, I had the greatest experience trying to converse with a French couple next to me. They spoke as much English as I speak French, meaning not all that much...but we made ourselves understood, to some extent. It was fun, and an amazing experience. <BR> <BR>The people at the Metro windows DO speak a little English, but expecting them to be fluent is ridiculous. It's their country, not yours. Why wouldn't they give you a dumbfounded look? If a Frenchman came up to me in NY and started speaking French, I'd do the same thing. When speaking English to someone in a foreign country, try to slow down. They'll do the best they can to understand, but we can't expect them to understand us when we talk a mile a minute, as if we were speaking to our best friend. <BR> <BR>Sorry you didn't enjoy Paris......

Congratulations, Jerry! You're a successful troll! <BR>Wake up, people!

That's exactly why I really dislike trolls. When someone makes a negative comment (and they can be helpful too), there's no way to know if it's a good troll who doesn't care to mislead people or if it's a genuine post worth debatting. <BR> <BR>Trolls may have a lot of fun, but it's very detrimental genuine posters/readers. Apart making genuine people waste their time replying to them instead of giving helpful advices really needed, they can seriously mislead other not experienced travellers and also, perhaps the more important, they prompt people to react very negatively to genuine (but poorly formulated) questions or comments. <BR> <BR>Once again, trolls are a plague on travel boards and I don't understand why some people here are so complacent with this kind of behavior they find fun. <BR> <BR>That say, i don't know if the OP was a troll or not, but I was prompted in this response by Surlok comment asking to respect jerry's opinion. They didn't respect it, once again, because they thought it wasn't a genuine post, but a trolling.

Jerry: You are the exact person that group tours were invented for. Tours are not all bad. I prefer to travel independently, but I have friends who are more comfortable being driven around on buses and not having to worry about knowing a foreign language. You should have done it that way. If you're uncomfortable using public transportation and don't know a word of French, the only way I would have recommended you visit is as part of a tour. I'm not surprised you didn't like it. <BR> <BR>By the way, just for future reference, English is not "spoken worldwide" as you assert. It's spoken in English-speaking countries, which are a small minority of the countries of the world. Some people in non-English speaking countries have learned English, but not all of them, and for you to expect them to is rude.

Jerry, I'm sorry that you had such a disappointing experience in Paris, but honestly, you sound like the only thing you researched was this forum. If that's the case, I'm afraid you set yourself up for frustration. Any guidebook to Paris would have recommended that you learn a few French phrases and at least try to speak the language, and would have provided you with much of the information you seemed to be seeking. Good maps would also have gone a long long way to helping you enjoy your visit. Finally, there is no substitute for adequate preparation. Sounds to me like you assumed that you could just land in Paris with no background on the place whatsoever, and have a marvelous time.

Jerry has some valid points. Yes, the French do indeed speak French. But it's also true that the Danes speak Danish, the Dutch Dutch and the Germans German, yet almost everyone in these other countries learns English and learns it well, so well that you almost can't stand on a corner looking lost without being approached by someone eager to help you out in English. I'm amazed that in this era, when every little third world country in the world is scrambling to learn English, the French are so slow to catch on, especially when compared with their neighbors to the north and the east, where it seems like even the street sweepers speak a little English. I guess they don't have to learn English to get visitor $ - Paris is as hot a destination as ever - but eschewing English, the dominant language of commerce, international relations, and education around our planet, just seems so backwards. Why can't they sell train tickets to the Japanese, Indian, Scandinavian, and American travelers who grace their city in the international language of communication, like any other civilized European city? <BR> <BR>And Paris is not that easy to negotiate. Sure, the Metro will get you where you want to be, roughly, but making your way over the drunks sprawled throughout the Metro passageways, emerging from one of the many exits at a given station, getting your bearings, and then finding your route is no mean feat. Ever tried to cross one of the mammoth intersections in Paris?? You might as well paint a big target on your butt and make obscene gestures at the drivers, because they're going to run you down anyway. <BR> <BR>Paris takes some getting used to, even for the experienced traveller, so be smug about the Paris skills you've acquired, if you like; my sympathies are with Jerry.

Please, please, please: read the sign. It says "Don't feed the trolls". <BR>PS: Way to go Jerry: You have either (1) found a way to give a tired troll-subject new life, or (b) competently demonstrated your own incompetence.

It's one thing if you go to a city and just don't like it. I'm not a fan of Florence. But my reasons for not liking Florence isn't because Florentines don't speak English. What people are responding to, (including me) is the implication that Paris and Parisians should speak English. It is arrogant as a traveler to expect your host country to speak your language just because it is the language of a Super Power. Of all the countries I've visited in Europe, France is the least likely place to encounter English speakers. If you want to travel in Europe and not hassle the language barrier stick to Great Britain, Ireland and the Netherlands. Otherwise, get a phrase book!

Troll or no troll.... I found the posts very interesting. After reading Jerry's post I almost had a nervous breakdown. But thanks to you all you kept posting and I am feeling 'much' better now. <BR> <BR>We have been to several cities in; Turkey, Greece, Portugal, Germany, Austria, Netherlands, Mexico, and let's include Canada and never had one problem with someone helping us or being rude. If I have said hello or not I don't remember. Probably said...excuse me. <BR> <BR>I have always heard negative comments about Paris. What's with them???? I just don't think every shopowner or person on the street, even after the 20th question, would be rude if you didn't say hello. To me.. hearing.. "Thank you so much!" would be the key on how I felt about tourists. <BR> <BR>We will be in Paris next April with our best smile, confused look and our hello's and hope for the best.

I don't think Jerry is a troll and although I have never been to Paris I've known enough people that have and have heard stories similar to Jerry's. Because of this, Paris has dropped down far on our list of European trips we'll be taking. We do not want to spend our precious vacations being treated badly just because we are in an unfamiliar place and may need some help getting around. We tend to visit places, such as the Caribbean, that have nice, friendly people (don't worry, be happy). Asia was another place that treated Americans wonderfully. The French seem to try to find an excuse to be rude to you ("I wasn't greeted properly first so I'm going to be rude"). <BR> <BR>Jerry, don't let the people belittling you here get you down. They are a rude, arrogant bunch and since they are always in Paris that couldn't be helping the overall attitude of the city. <BR> <BR>

I have too agree also that Jerry sounds like a troll. "The metro is difficult to navigate" is just a tad too transparent. If he could navigate to an airport - and then through it - and find the correct seat to put his butt in - then he should be able to do the Metro with out any problem. <BR>

I assure all of you I am not a troll. That being said, where in any of my original message did I say I expected everybody in Paris to speak English? <BR> <BR>I said in ticket booths and information places there should have been somebody there who could have at least understood English. I don't think that's too much to ask with the popularity of English worldwide. And yes, I do expect English to be spoken in such a tourist-heavy area. I was told by people in Germany that it is mandatory for youngsters starting kindergarten to learn English in that country. <BR> <BR>When we were in Germany we didn't get treated this way. In fact, almost everywhere we went instructions or messages were in at least German and English, and sometimes in other languages. <BR> <BR>I'm not shocked that many of the responses to this have been negative. Most who respond to these types of posts expect it to be a troll, as they say. This problem is real, and I did research the place other than on this site before we left. <BR> <BR>I'm just trying to point out that it can happen and did. <BR> <BR>I would not recommend Paris to anyone who cannot communicate in French. It can be a nightmare. Don't believe all of the peachy messages on here.

Jerry, I'm not in favor of people belitting you but, on the other hand, bear in mind that <I>you</I> "belittled" Parisians, calling them "extremely rude". That has not been my experience -- nor the experience of any of my friends -- in Paris at all. <BR> <BR>Now, that being said, I shouldn't have said in my earlier post that I've <I>never</I> encountered the problems you mentioned because, on rare occasion, I have. I have run into people in places like Metro ticket booths, etc. who have seemed almost disdainful. However, I've also seen them treat French-speaking people the same way, so I chalk it up to them working in a "high-volume" job where they probably get asked the same questions over and over and over again -- sometimes perhaps by rude or demanding tourists -- and they probably get a little burned out. I'm not saying that's an <I>excuse</I> to be rude, but it may help explain it. <BR> <BR>On your other note...if, as you say, you've never been in a big city with a public transportation system, then I suspect you'd find <I>any</I> city's transportation system confusing, not just the system in Paris.