My intrigue with Scotland began years ago while watching a movie, of all things, Braveheart, with Mel Gibson. I fell in love with the history and the fierce pride that liberated it....I am hoping that feeling still exists and to capture it in the short time I have to spend there.

Comment on this proposed trip of eight days.
Flying from Boston or NY, Summer 2007, with two kids, a spouse and one grandparent who is 100% coherent and mobile

Glasgow: Appreciate less cosmopolitan and more tavern/local atmosphere

Do the B&B for three days and explore by foot and car locally.

Train or Car to Fort William.
Get a steamtrain to ???????

Wish to explore castles and see the countryside.....

B&B's, two to three day stints....

Any comments, critiques????

Jen

I'm sorry, but it would be a mistake to rely on that rather silly film.
For a start, William Wallace didn't liberate Scotland.
Edward 1st liberated him from his insides and other bits before quartering him.

If you are interested in the real story go to http://tinyurl.com/4rq5y

I also would not chose Glasgow or Fort William for a visit.
Glasgow is fine for shopping and has some good museums, but for history and castles, I'd go for Edinburgh.
Also, Fort William is a very touristy town and is not very picturesque.
I'm sure that Sheila or other Scottish experts could point you in much better directions.

Well, thank you for that enlightening post, I will research of course beyond Hollywood as a resource of information...hopefully legwork and fodor input will guide me in the right direction....

J

My husband and I rented a car and drove around the Highlands of Scotland in June of 2003. The stark landscapes of the Highlands may hold that feeling of openness and freedom you are looking for in a visit to Scotland. There are many guidebooks and online travel information to help you plan your visit, but I agree that Fort William is not the best place in Scotland to get that Scotland feeling.

desertbound -

We just returned from a 2 week stay in Scotland. You will love it!.

As stated - a lot of what is in the movie Braveheart is, . . . well, . . . fiction. Of course William Wallace & Robert the Bruce existed. I tend to believe Robert the Bruce was not portrayed in the movie as most Scots would have preferred. Both he and William Wallace are both highly regarded by history. Anyway, . . . for history, a stop in both Stirling and Edinburgh are in order.

For castles, . . . look into the Great British Heritage Pass on www.visitbritain.com (under touring passes - I think). Lots of castles and other sights of interest. Of the dozen or so we saw in addition to Stirling and Edinburgh, . . . Glamis Castle (childhood home of the Queen Mother) near Forfar is very, very good. If you can fit that into your trip - I think you would be pleased.

As for your other questions - I'll let the local experts jump in. We stayed the first week in Pitcairngreen at The Beild (near Perth - both a B&B and self catering). Very nice people.

I will say that we had a great time. Highlights were; St. Andrews (both golf & non-golf), Edinburgh, Stirling, in & around Perth, and our last nights in the Dalhousie Castle Hotel.

Hope you enjoy!

Well, personally, I'd rather a traveler be inspired by Braveheart than, say, The Da Vinci Code. Sigh.

When you say 8 days, does that include travel days? Or, are you landing on a Saturday am and leaving on a Sunday?

Do you know which month you will travel? In August, Edinburgh fills up for the festivals - lots of cultural events, and plenty of people as well. If you are looking more for history, I'd suggest July would be a better month.

How old are the children?

For history, I second the recommendation of Edinburgh and Stirling. Both have great castles. In Stirling you can climb the Wallace Monument for some good views over the countryside. Nearby is the battleground of Bannockburn where Robert the Bruce beat the English.

Other historical places that I'd also add:

- Glencoe, site of the famous encounter between the Macdonalds and the Campbells. The drive through Glencoe on the A82 is one of the most beautiful anywhere. I especially like it from west to east. It has always been misty when we've been through, which always adds to the atmosphere. Rannoch Moor is at the top of the grade (east of Glencoe) which has its own stark beauty.

- Culloden battlefield. scene of the battle of 1746. It is very well documented, and you can get quite the sense of the battle.

- Rob Roy's grave in Balquihidder. The churchyard is lovely if not exactly deserted (nearby Loch Voil is very pretty).

- Glenfinnan, where Bonnie Prince Charlie rallied the clans in 1745. There is a tower there that you can climb and a visitor's center.

OK - first of all you need to do a bit more research. You have picked two of the <u>very worst</u> places to see castles, countryside and &quot;tavern/local atmosphere&quot;. Glasgow and Ft william do not fill that bill at all.

The steam train does leave from Glasgow and Ft William - but you don't need to stay in either one to catch the train.

We do need to know when during the summer you are planning this trip. August/Edinburgh is a special case and you'd need to do some extra planning for that.

But any other time during the summer I would look at something like this: Edinburgh 3 days/2 nights (more if you can manage more than 8 days total), pick up a car and dribe through the Trossachs staying 2 nights near Callander. Visit Stirling and maybe Doune castles and see the lovely countryside/lochs/waterfalls. Then through Glencoe and to Ft William to catch the Jacobite train out and back (this takes serious pre-planning since it doesn't run every day and fills up in advance).

Then you have the choice of going west to Skye, north to near Inverness, or south to Oban/Mull for the next couple of days/nights. Then to Glasgow for your last day/night before flying home.

We ARE sounding a little harsh, aren't we? But truly, Braveheart, whilst great fun, is a godawful moveie for a sense of Scotland. It may shock you to know that William Wallace, wasn't Australian, the film was made in Ireland, and Wallace certainly never met the Queen of England.

BUT....


There's nothing wrong witha couple of days in Glasgow, but I would suggest teh things that make it special are art, architecture, shopping (no, really), and the people. Finding the latter in their normal habitat and having them let you join in may be more challenging.

The bits of Glasgow which are not cosmopolitan and pretty scary. So, if you want &quot;Less cosmopolitan and more tavern/local atmosphere&quot; I'd suggest somewhere a little less...big. Like Crieff; or Dunkeld; or Aberfeldy. places where there's enough to do taht you won't be bored (or, at least, I wouldn't be bored

Which is not to say don't do Glasgow. Just do it with your eyes open.

If you want to do the steam train, do it. Nice experience, great scenery, lots of countryside, no castles. With a car, you could manage Castle Stalker in Loch Fyne, and an array of lesser castles round Oban. Eilean Donan near Kyle of Lochalsh; and Dunvegan on Skye.

Then come across to the east somewhere-Fife, Aberdeenshire, Perthshire. Different countryside and lots of castles (guess where the money was). If you really want to do stuff related to the Wars of Independence, then you need to be in the south- Stirling, Falkirk, Arbroath..

Feel free to come back and ask more when you've got it pared downa bit. And it would help us to know the kids' ages and what time of year you're coming.

Jen, if Braveheart has inspired you to come and visit Scotland I'll forgive its historical (and hysterical?) inaccuracies. OK, I'm biased, I've lived here all my life, but I think our history is fascinating enought without having to invent bits that never happened (for example, Glencoe was not a simple clan feud, it was cold blooded and premeditated mass murder carried out on the explicit orders of the king - the same king who even today has parades in his honour in parts of Scotland and Ireland).
All the places mentioned in other posts are worth a visit but don't even think about trying to see them all in eight days. Pick two or at most three areas and spend a few days in each. Then come back soon and do the rest!
If history is your thing, 2007 is the 700th anniversary of the coronation of Robert the Bruce. It's also the 300th anniversary of the end of Scotland as an independent sovereign state, one of the oldest nations in Europe sold for a bribe of 20,000 GBP. Despite the best efforts of politicians of a certain persuasion, nobody in Scotland is very keen to celebrate this.

We spent a month in Scotland a few years ago. Our favourite things:

- Loch Lomond &amp; surrounding area
- Inner Hebrides - Mull, Iona, great pub with fresh seafood in Tobermory Mull
- Highlands are amazing - stunning and easy to travel through on bus, but I'd choose car
- Then there are the Orkneys. We went on a whim but it was the best, most memorable and most historic part of our trip

Enjoy!

I dream of Scotland too, but my dream has me at sheilas house and she is cooking

If I were to blame a movie on the appeal of Scotland, I would say Rob Roy went pretty far in showing some nice landscape

well, at least it was filmed in Scotland.

And, Scarlett, dearest, buy a ticket m'dear.

Just returned from Scotland a few weeks ago. last time I was there was 22 years ago while I studied At Stirling.

I agree with the posters who suggested:
Edinburgh, Stirling. Loch Lomond and areas nearby.
Rob Roys grave is in a beautiful area I would suggest a visit.
culloden Battle field .

There are so many things to do and see. I would recommend purdhasing a good travel book and researching the country.
the rate of exchange is very poor for the US$ right now. Near double.
It cost us $100 for dinner with our 2 children every night... and that was pizza dinner and a couple of wines and beers..ughh. But we had a ball in my favorite country!!!

My favorite places in Scotland are:

Isle of Skye
Glamis Castle
Stirling Castle
Edinburgh
Aberdeen
Slain's Castle (north of Aberdeen)

You are going to love Scotland.

I was planning to go to Scotland in September. I'm having some second thoughts because that's three months after summer solstice, so daylight will end long before I'll be ready to go back to my hotels. My tentative plan is to take a small group walking tour. I'm not concerned about the week of the tour, since I'd be with other people and therefore the evening dinner routine would take longer and wouldn't leave me with many hours when I'd still feel energetic, but it would be dark outside. But I'm thinking that it might be better to save Scotland for some other time, perhaps May when daylight hours are longer and I would be comfortable going without a tour, since I could travel by bus or train and still arrive at the evening's destination before dark.

In deciding whether to stick with the September plan, my specific questions are about Glasgow and Edinburgh after dark. I would be spending a few days on my own pre- and post-tour in these two cities, and I wonder what the evening culture is like. I have no problems in the evening when I travel alone in Italy, because it is so normal for people to take walks in the evening, before dinner or after dinner or both, and I just do the same and feel perfectly safe and comfortable. I've also been comfortable alone taking walks after dinner in parts of Greece and France and definitely in Montreal where lots of people took walks at night. I am not a drinker (except at the dinner table), so going for drinks in the evening would definitely not be for me, and I would probably feel uneasy if that were the main thing &quot;everyone&quot; did in the evening.

Can anyone address my specific questions re what it's like after dark (maybe around 6:30 to 10) in Glasgow and Edinburgh, what people do, how they act, and what would be a normal and pleasant way to pass the time after dinner and before bedtime?

I'll let others chime in before adding my tuppenceworth, Carol

I personally would stay in Edinburgh as opposed to Glasgow. you can carry out alot of day tours from here and it is a much nicer place. I spent 7 days there in 2001 and found it to be a good base to travel from. If you like the Braveheart story(like myself), definitly spend a day in Stirling. There is a hop on hop off bus which operates up until mid sept I think and drops you off at the major attractions; also stops at traine station. Stirling is only an hour by train from edinburgh!
enjoy your trip!

I have to stay in Galsgow at least the last night. I'd fly to/from Glasgow.

Can you address the question about what it's like after dark in either city? Do families, and individuals alone, and groups of friends take walks in the vening, just for the sake of walking, as ijn Italy (but not in the USA)?

walking the streets of edinburgh at night is no less safe than any other city. there will certainly alot of other tourists walking around the princes st area after dark!

Sheesh - do you think September is like December? Now, the days ARE short in December/January. But you make it sound like it will be dark at 4:00 p.m. in September. Nothing could be farther from the truth. What gave you this idea?