How Much Per Diem Should a 14 Year Old be Given on a School Trip to Europe
Feb 26th, 2009, 07:41 PM
#42
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I am going to chime in because I personally led student tours to Europe. I used EF and CHA. I took students on two tours to Italy, one to France and one to Spain. I took the exact same tour in Italy with each company. In Italy, there was a decided difference in (most of) the hotels and meals, with CHA being better (most of) the time. EF meals were often skimpy. There was enough difference that I used CHA after that, until I had a problem with them. Still, the couple hundred dollars the kids saved on the cost of the trip with EF was enough to buy extra food if they wanted it, or take an extra excursion. A fellow teacher took the exact same trip as me, at the exact same time, and had better hotels and food with EF than I did. It also seems to vary country by country.
The sightseeing was exactly the same on the two trips to Italy!
Food stops on the road were exactly the same, the autogrills.
All the guides were great with both companies! The EF guide was much better with the kids than the CHA guides. The CHA guides were better with the adults.
The EF guide actually made some great restaurant recommendations where I know she did not get a kickback because we went to several without her, during crowded times, and they had no clue we were with her tour. One of her recs in Bologna turned out to be one of the best meals on the trip, and one of the best I've had in Italy in seven trips.
The EF guide took the kids on a hike up Vesuvius. It was not part of the tour, but we had extra time, so she just did it! Wonderful.
The CHA guide bought a nice gift and gave it as a prize in a history game. An adult won it. I thought the hike was better because it was for everyone, but it was a nice gesture.
The tours do stop at touristy shopping places where guides to get paid. Hate that, but kids actually liked the demonstrations of glass blowing, etc.
With both companies, there were times when students were really busy and times when they had an entire afternoon to explore on their own. Here is where the teacher they are going with makes a difference. Your son's teacher needs to know where to take students or where to direct them in their free time. I did not stay with my students, but put them into groups and let them explore. I also took my students sightseeing in the evenings and to dances, etc. The teacher needs to be familiar with what is available in each place. What is your son's teacher doing for his/her students?
I am not crazy about EF, but they do an okay job with helping students see a bit of Europe on the cheap. You can read the forums, but people who had a good experience are not likely to be posting, so you are going to see only the problems.
There may be a couple days when your student has plenty of time for a nice noon meal, but he may choose to walk about, exploring instead and just get a sandwich. Sodas were not pricey on the street, but were very expensive in the restaurants if kids ordered them with meals.
On my first trip with kids, I learned a lesson. The kids bought expensive t-shirts and other stuff (not cheap, off the street, but really expensive stuff). They all ran out of money and I ended up lending and never getting it back. After that, I collected enough money ahead of time, for one day. That way, they had food money the last day.
One thing with both tours: lots of unavoidable bus/train time. Your trip, especially, is covering a big area geographically. He will absolutely not be able to go to a grocery store, etc. He could buy bottled water at lunch the first day and refill in the mornings, but he will need more than that during the day on the bus. You might suggest that the teacher pick up some cases of water the evening before for bus time. That is what I did.
The other thing I carried that my students really appreciated was wet wipes. I suggest a small package for your son.
This is a lot more than what you asked, but I do have real life experience with EF. Others perhaps had different experiences, so different opinions. My students who went with EF loved it. My students who went with CHA loved it.
Per day: $8.00 - $15.00 for lunch, $3.00 for snacks, $3.00 for drinks, $5.00 souvenirs. Since, as I and others have indicated, EF can be skimpy on food, he might want an extra sandwich sometime in the evening, another $5.00. He could easily get by on $30.00 pd. Your $50.00 is more than enough. So, you are being very generous. He should bring you a nice souvenir.
The sightseeing was exactly the same on the two trips to Italy!
Food stops on the road were exactly the same, the autogrills.
All the guides were great with both companies! The EF guide was much better with the kids than the CHA guides. The CHA guides were better with the adults.
The EF guide actually made some great restaurant recommendations where I know she did not get a kickback because we went to several without her, during crowded times, and they had no clue we were with her tour. One of her recs in Bologna turned out to be one of the best meals on the trip, and one of the best I've had in Italy in seven trips.
The EF guide took the kids on a hike up Vesuvius. It was not part of the tour, but we had extra time, so she just did it! Wonderful.
The CHA guide bought a nice gift and gave it as a prize in a history game. An adult won it. I thought the hike was better because it was for everyone, but it was a nice gesture.
The tours do stop at touristy shopping places where guides to get paid. Hate that, but kids actually liked the demonstrations of glass blowing, etc.
With both companies, there were times when students were really busy and times when they had an entire afternoon to explore on their own. Here is where the teacher they are going with makes a difference. Your son's teacher needs to know where to take students or where to direct them in their free time. I did not stay with my students, but put them into groups and let them explore. I also took my students sightseeing in the evenings and to dances, etc. The teacher needs to be familiar with what is available in each place. What is your son's teacher doing for his/her students?
I am not crazy about EF, but they do an okay job with helping students see a bit of Europe on the cheap. You can read the forums, but people who had a good experience are not likely to be posting, so you are going to see only the problems.
There may be a couple days when your student has plenty of time for a nice noon meal, but he may choose to walk about, exploring instead and just get a sandwich. Sodas were not pricey on the street, but were very expensive in the restaurants if kids ordered them with meals.
On my first trip with kids, I learned a lesson. The kids bought expensive t-shirts and other stuff (not cheap, off the street, but really expensive stuff). They all ran out of money and I ended up lending and never getting it back. After that, I collected enough money ahead of time, for one day. That way, they had food money the last day.
One thing with both tours: lots of unavoidable bus/train time. Your trip, especially, is covering a big area geographically. He will absolutely not be able to go to a grocery store, etc. He could buy bottled water at lunch the first day and refill in the mornings, but he will need more than that during the day on the bus. You might suggest that the teacher pick up some cases of water the evening before for bus time. That is what I did.
The other thing I carried that my students really appreciated was wet wipes. I suggest a small package for your son.
This is a lot more than what you asked, but I do have real life experience with EF. Others perhaps had different experiences, so different opinions. My students who went with EF loved it. My students who went with CHA loved it.
Per day: $8.00 - $15.00 for lunch, $3.00 for snacks, $3.00 for drinks, $5.00 souvenirs. Since, as I and others have indicated, EF can be skimpy on food, he might want an extra sandwich sometime in the evening, another $5.00. He could easily get by on $30.00 pd. Your $50.00 is more than enough. So, you are being very generous. He should bring you a nice souvenir.
Feb 26th, 2009, 08:23 PM
#43
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I can only speak from my experience going to Europe with teenagers through NETC. The tour company were fantastic. And the food choices were pretty good through out all the tours.
Our group while moving between cities (usually via tour bus) we always made stops on the highway at "truck stops" no like out truck stops. The kids were able to get decent lunches and snacks. So trust me your kids won't starve. Bringing snacks are a smart thing.
I think the 35.00 euro a day is a good amount.
Our group while moving between cities (usually via tour bus) we always made stops on the highway at "truck stops" no like out truck stops. The kids were able to get decent lunches and snacks. So trust me your kids won't starve. Bringing snacks are a smart thing.
I think the 35.00 euro a day is a good amount.
Feb 26th, 2009, 08:28 PM
#44
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The kids do enjoy the shopping stops. In DC it is funny. With all the choice of souvenir hats, the one that wins hands down with the kids is the one that says FBI. When they get back on the motor coach after the Air & Space Museum, I always ask, "OK, who bought the space ice cream?" Someone always does. It is funny. And the 8th grade girls always take goofy photos in front of the statue of Lincoln. I guess it is an 8th grade girl thing.
I get a big kick out of the kids.
I get a big kick out of the kids.
Feb 27th, 2009, 11:43 AM
#45
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>>But this is to a teen who I give $20 to go out with friends and he comes home with nothing in his wallet.<<
May I suggest you have your son start doing some odd jobs to earn some spending money for this trip? I imagine you could still load it onto his card, but IMO he would value (and stretch) what he earns more than what you hand out.
Lee Ann
May I suggest you have your son start doing some odd jobs to earn some spending money for this trip? I imagine you could still load it onto his card, but IMO he would value (and stretch) what he earns more than what you hand out.
Lee Ann
Feb 27th, 2009, 12:22 PM
#47
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most europeans get about €50-60 per day per diem (give or take...depending on the country and company) when travelling on business. this is meant to compensate for all meals, local transport and incidentals.
i agree....coke and pepsi are not THAT expensive in europe. of course, some bars and restaurants will rip people off on beverages (this happens all over the world). everyone has a story about an $9 coke in _____ (fill in the country - it happens everywhere).
i always laugh at the 'wine is cheaper than coke' legends of europe that many tourists have. many people in europe drink coke, pepsi, red bull, etc. just relax and don't fuss about the cokes.
i agree....coke and pepsi are not THAT expensive in europe. of course, some bars and restaurants will rip people off on beverages (this happens all over the world). everyone has a story about an $9 coke in _____ (fill in the country - it happens everywhere).
i always laugh at the 'wine is cheaper than coke' legends of europe that many tourists have. many people in europe drink coke, pepsi, red bull, etc. just relax and don't fuss about the cokes.
Feb 27th, 2009, 01:38 PM
#48
curiousgeo - Some things will depend on whether the teacher leading the group has experience or not. The kids are expected to tip the tour director and bus driver. If he/she doesn't get the tips before departure, they will be expected to tip during the trip. That can add up to a couple of days spending money that the child was counting on using to eat. They may be offered something optional to do at the last minute which will cost extra.
Unfortunately, free time may only consist of 1/2 - 1 hour somewhere and not on their own (the teacher is responsible/liable for monitoring the kids). They will have to eat where they are and usually that's a major European sightseeing area so prices are high. Three countries for spring break = three countries in 10 days. They won't have much free time at all with that much ground to cover.
If your school hasn't booked a private tour (most don't) then they will be combined with other groups from the US. Usually the teacher with the biggest group gets catered to for many things (extra activites, places to stop/shop).
In addition, other kids will have a lot of money and your son will want to do (or spend) what everyone else is doing. I had one girl bring $2000 for a 10 day trip (really 8 if you didn't count travel days). Her dad also gave her his ATM card in case it wasn't enough. On the flip side, one kid (not my group) only brought $5 per day spending money which wasn't enough for lunch let alone drinks or snacks. With a growing boy, I would err on more than less. Yes, they will stop at McD's, Hard Rock and other places that kids like to eat. These are much more expensive in Europe than in the US and with the exchange rate a value meal at McD's for lunch could easily be around $12. Some growing boys can eat two meals so you can see how it adds up especially if they aren't getting enough to eat at the included meals.
Unfortunately, free time may only consist of 1/2 - 1 hour somewhere and not on their own (the teacher is responsible/liable for monitoring the kids). They will have to eat where they are and usually that's a major European sightseeing area so prices are high. Three countries for spring break = three countries in 10 days. They won't have much free time at all with that much ground to cover.
If your school hasn't booked a private tour (most don't) then they will be combined with other groups from the US. Usually the teacher with the biggest group gets catered to for many things (extra activites, places to stop/shop).
In addition, other kids will have a lot of money and your son will want to do (or spend) what everyone else is doing. I had one girl bring $2000 for a 10 day trip (really 8 if you didn't count travel days). Her dad also gave her his ATM card in case it wasn't enough. On the flip side, one kid (not my group) only brought $5 per day spending money which wasn't enough for lunch let alone drinks or snacks. With a growing boy, I would err on more than less. Yes, they will stop at McD's, Hard Rock and other places that kids like to eat. These are much more expensive in Europe than in the US and with the exchange rate a value meal at McD's for lunch could easily be around $12. Some growing boys can eat two meals so you can see how it adds up especially if they aren't getting enough to eat at the included meals.
Feb 27th, 2009, 01:43 PM
#49
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I asked aforesaid child- who was 13 at the time. She reckoned €30/ day then, and reckons it would be €40 now. Some days they had to buy lunch and they spent more than €30 and some they didn't and spent less. So I was wrong. Sorry.
Mar 4th, 2009, 02:57 PM
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The kids do not directly tip the TD and bus driver. It is usually included in the price of the tour. Sometimes the tip is in the paycheck from the tour company. Other times it is given to the TD and bus driver by the head teacher. I have never been on a tour as a TD where the money was collected from the kids. They want the kids to carry as little money as possible for obvious reasons.
Mar 4th, 2009, 03:39 PM
#52
Lauren, have you ever heard of xltravel? They have an office out of Virginia in Roanoke, I think? They arrange tours for soccer teams to play soccer in europe and also sightsee. We are thinking of using them as our soccer club has worked with them before. Any inside info?
Mar 4th, 2009, 04:33 PM
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I am not familiar with them. I would ask them to give you the names of other schools who have used them. Call the other schools and find out if they were satisfied.
Most of my work is with 3 companies. I work occasionally for a few others.
Most of my work is with 3 companies. I work occasionally for a few others.
Mar 4th, 2009, 04:37 PM
#55
>>>LaurenKahn1 on Mar 4, 09 at 06:57 PM
The kids do not directly tip the TD and bus driver. It is usually included in the price of the tour. Sometimes the tip is in the paycheck from the tour company.<<<
Lauren, you've never been on one of the European tours. Have you ever been a tour director on a trip or just a "day/site guide" for your local area? I've never been on a tour where the tips weren't collected while touring and it has never been included in the price of the tour. Tip envelopes are given to the group leaders while on the tour, not before. It is always suggested that they attempt to collect these from particpants in advance, but most don't. The envelopes are given to the tour director the last day.
The kids do not directly tip the TD and bus driver. It is usually included in the price of the tour. Sometimes the tip is in the paycheck from the tour company.<<<
Lauren, you've never been on one of the European tours. Have you ever been a tour director on a trip or just a "day/site guide" for your local area? I've never been on a tour where the tips weren't collected while touring and it has never been included in the price of the tour. Tip envelopes are given to the group leaders while on the tour, not before. It is always suggested that they attempt to collect these from particpants in advance, but most don't. The envelopes are given to the tour director the last day.
Mar 4th, 2009, 06:20 PM
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Kybourbon is a veteran of these trips, having gone on several as a chaperone with her daughters school groups.
Horror stories abound about these guided trips to Europe, the horrible hotels and bad food. I think the tour companies probably assume also that students won't care or complain about poor accomdations or food. In my experience the opposite is true---where an adult will just grin and bear it, a fearless high schooler will complain loudly and often.
And this isn't a new wrinkle in adolescent behavior; approximately one million years ago at my European boarding school one of our American classmates did not like the food or his roomates and after complaining to his parents did no good, he wrote a letter to his Congressman... no joke.
Horror stories abound about these guided trips to Europe, the horrible hotels and bad food. I think the tour companies probably assume also that students won't care or complain about poor accomdations or food. In my experience the opposite is true---where an adult will just grin and bear it, a fearless high schooler will complain loudly and often.
And this isn't a new wrinkle in adolescent behavior; approximately one million years ago at my European boarding school one of our American classmates did not like the food or his roomates and after complaining to his parents did no good, he wrote a letter to his Congressman... no joke.
Mar 4th, 2009, 06:45 PM
#58
Lauren, we are out of Richmond, but they handle tours to Europe for soccer. We are looking at playing in England and many parents would go as well. Our soccer club has used them. This would not be a school tour, but a travel soccer club tour.
I went on one of the school tours back in 1980 and we had terrible hotels and lousy food back then. I had 200 dollars in cash to change and I came home after 2 weeks with about 50 bucks. We ate mc donalds for lunch a few times. We were not supervised very well, but I think that must have changed somewhat over the years.
I would assume the cheaper hotels and food would still be common though. I thought the trip was great and didn't mind that we weren't at the ritz. Hated not having a bath ensuite several times.
I would have a harder time at my age accepting no air conditioning and crummy beds and baths down the hall. To me, at 15, who had stayed in some nice hotels on family trips, it was an adventure. I guess I thought that is what all the hotels in europe were probably like. Now I know better.
I went on one of the school tours back in 1980 and we had terrible hotels and lousy food back then.
I had 200 dollars in cash to change and I came home after 2 weeks with about 50 bucks. We ate mc donalds for lunch a few times. We were not supervised very well, but I think that must have changed somewhat over the years. I would assume the cheaper hotels and food would still be common though. I thought the trip was great and didn't mind that we weren't at the ritz. Hated not having a bath ensuite several times.
I would have a harder time at my age accepting no air conditioning and crummy beds and baths down the hall. To me, at 15, who had stayed in some nice hotels on family trips, it was an adventure. I guess I thought that is what all the hotels in europe were probably like.
Now I know better.
Mar 4th, 2009, 07:44 PM
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Very few hotels in Europe have a/c and those that do are generally expensive. They would not be used for kids' tours--or even for most adult tours. Kids tours operate at the low end so that more of the kids can go. It's economics. Please remember that the food is generally for the kids--and kids do not demand much. In Washington, DC, we visit all the food courts. In Europe you will go to low end places as well.
Of course, if money is no object, the kids can go deluxe.
Quite frankly, when I travel in Europe, I stay in 1 or 2 star places when I am not exchanging. I am hardly ever in the room and do not want to spend money where I will only be to sleep and shower. The problem on any trip is everyone wants a rock bottom price and deluxe accomodations. You just can't get that.
Supervision is for the chaperones--not the tour company. When I have these kids' groups, the maximum is for 5 days unless I take them out of DC. I give the commentary, due the hotel check in, make sure everyone gets his wake up call (Mine is set for a half hour before the kids. If I don't get mine I am on the phone with the desk PRONTO.) Supervision is done by the group.
Now on an adult tour my responsibilities are different--and the accomodations are certainly better. Sometimes adult groups eat at food courts and the like during the day, but they do get nicer places at night. Remember we are restricted to restaurants that can handle groups.
I did go on a school trip to Italy once as a chaperone. The hotels were so so and we certainly did not get Italian gourmet food. Of course, we paid for low end and that is what we got. The kids had a blast.
I can tell you that on almost any kid tour, some parent chaperones start complaining from the get go. Many are much more understanding. When parents have really been out of line and "unloaded", I have other members of the group apologize for the improper behavior. It is all part of the experience. Usually when someone does that, I say absolutely nothing. I let the "unloader" finish and then reply, "I am executing the itinerary desired by the teacher/group leader. If you have a problem, please talk to him/her. These tours are arranged for the kids." The tours are exhausting and a lot of people are grossly out of shape--adding to the fatigue. One reason I do this work is to help keep my weight down. Often, I eat very little at meals because I am exhausted to and the food is not that great.
Know what you are buying before you go.
And, by the way, when I travel in Europe I do it independently almost all the time (exception: when I went to Russia). I would never take a tour because I know the game. The upside of a tour is everything is taken care of for you. The downside is that you are regimented. If I need time to myself, I leave the tour (which I did twice in Russia) and meet the group later in the day/evening somewhere. I have to tell you that the tour director was not delighted with that in Russia, but I had some things I wanted to see and would have missed them if I stayed with the group. She was concerned I would get "lost". I reassured her that I had a map and I was off. The second time I went solo, the tour director just waved me off and said that I should have a good time.
With a kids' tour, the only "free" time might be when you are inside a museum. There you can see what you want. I do not attempt to tour guide inside any museum, but give guidance as to where my guests might want to go depending on interest. At least in Washington, the Smithsonian Museums are so crowded guiding is not practical. Then I generally sit down in the coffee shop and do paperwork or make phone calls.
Just know what you are getting into before you go. Generally the tour companies know what they are doing. Most tour companies are not flying tour directors over from the US to Europe anymore because it costs too much. You get people who live there. Of course there are exceptions (industry leaders like Collette and Tauck).
Again, if you have concerns, by all means ask the tour company for references.
If they are a good tour company, they would expect you to want to check references, but remember no trip anywhere is perfect. In Australia last summer I had $1,000 in emergency travelers' chequss go missing. I could not find the numbers and had to wait til I returned to the US to get my refund. Dumb and annoying. What did I do? I was upset, but I certainly did not ruin my trip. I forgot about it and kept repeating the mantra "A trip of this dimension is simply going to have glitches." I got home, got the refund and then the first set of Australian home exchangers returned home. I had left the t-cheques in their home (I did 3 home exchanges one after the other). They mailed the useless t-cheques back to me and I sent them back to American Express. By the way, I only carry t-cheques in case my ATM card does not work. Having not used them in the last several trips, I constantly consider abandoning bringing them, but I am superstitious. So what happens? The t-cheques caused the problem (not the ATM card--LOL).
Your trip will have glitches, but I hope everyone enjoys themselves. The kids should have memories to last a lifetime.
In many ways the package tours are only suitable for the kids (low end packages) and seniors with lots of money who want to be coddled. The people in the middle are better off--at least in developed countries--going solo.
Of course, if money is no object, the kids can go deluxe.
Quite frankly, when I travel in Europe, I stay in 1 or 2 star places when I am not exchanging. I am hardly ever in the room and do not want to spend money where I will only be to sleep and shower. The problem on any trip is everyone wants a rock bottom price and deluxe accomodations. You just can't get that.
Supervision is for the chaperones--not the tour company. When I have these kids' groups, the maximum is for 5 days unless I take them out of DC. I give the commentary, due the hotel check in, make sure everyone gets his wake up call (Mine is set for a half hour before the kids. If I don't get mine I am on the phone with the desk PRONTO.) Supervision is done by the group.
Now on an adult tour my responsibilities are different--and the accomodations are certainly better. Sometimes adult groups eat at food courts and the like during the day, but they do get nicer places at night. Remember we are restricted to restaurants that can handle groups.
I did go on a school trip to Italy once as a chaperone. The hotels were so so and we certainly did not get Italian gourmet food. Of course, we paid for low end and that is what we got. The kids had a blast.
I can tell you that on almost any kid tour, some parent chaperones start complaining from the get go. Many are much more understanding. When parents have really been out of line and "unloaded", I have other members of the group apologize for the improper behavior. It is all part of the experience. Usually when someone does that, I say absolutely nothing. I let the "unloader" finish and then reply, "I am executing the itinerary desired by the teacher/group leader. If you have a problem, please talk to him/her. These tours are arranged for the kids." The tours are exhausting and a lot of people are grossly out of shape--adding to the fatigue. One reason I do this work is to help keep my weight down. Often, I eat very little at meals because I am exhausted to and the food is not that great.
Know what you are buying before you go.
And, by the way, when I travel in Europe I do it independently almost all the time (exception: when I went to Russia). I would never take a tour because I know the game. The upside of a tour is everything is taken care of for you. The downside is that you are regimented. If I need time to myself, I leave the tour (which I did twice in Russia) and meet the group later in the day/evening somewhere. I have to tell you that the tour director was not delighted with that in Russia, but I had some things I wanted to see and would have missed them if I stayed with the group. She was concerned I would get "lost". I reassured her that I had a map and I was off. The second time I went solo, the tour director just waved me off and said that I should have a good time.
With a kids' tour, the only "free" time might be when you are inside a museum. There you can see what you want. I do not attempt to tour guide inside any museum, but give guidance as to where my guests might want to go depending on interest. At least in Washington, the Smithsonian Museums are so crowded guiding is not practical. Then I generally sit down in the coffee shop and do paperwork or make phone calls.
Just know what you are getting into before you go. Generally the tour companies know what they are doing. Most tour companies are not flying tour directors over from the US to Europe anymore because it costs too much. You get people who live there. Of course there are exceptions (industry leaders like Collette and Tauck).
Again, if you have concerns, by all means ask the tour company for references.
If they are a good tour company, they would expect you to want to check references, but remember no trip anywhere is perfect. In Australia last summer I had $1,000 in emergency travelers' chequss go missing. I could not find the numbers and had to wait til I returned to the US to get my refund. Dumb and annoying. What did I do? I was upset, but I certainly did not ruin my trip. I forgot about it and kept repeating the mantra "A trip of this dimension is simply going to have glitches." I got home, got the refund and then the first set of Australian home exchangers returned home. I had left the t-cheques in their home (I did 3 home exchanges one after the other). They mailed the useless t-cheques back to me and I sent them back to American Express. By the way, I only carry t-cheques in case my ATM card does not work. Having not used them in the last several trips, I constantly consider abandoning bringing them, but I am superstitious. So what happens? The t-cheques caused the problem (not the ATM card--LOL).
Your trip will have glitches, but I hope everyone enjoys themselves. The kids should have memories to last a lifetime.
In many ways the package tours are only suitable for the kids (low end packages) and seniors with lots of money who want to be coddled. The people in the middle are better off--at least in developed countries--going solo.
