Neil_Oz

Ira, you're not allowed to question England's claim to subtlety and understated wit in matters comedic.

kaudrey

I agree also - my first thoughts are always abroad when I decide to travel - although now that I've been to a bunch of European countries, I am expanding my thoughts to Central and South America.

On the other hand, I have seen so little of the USA (I am an East Coaster), that I am now feeling the need to see more of this vast, wonderful country. So this fall I am going to San Francisco and Arizona (I have reasons for the odd combo). I have found that I am now just as excited to see SF, Sedona, and the Grand Canyon as I usually am when I am going on any other trip.

Karen

flanneruk

Ira:

It's kind of you to say so, but I can't think of any way Europe subsidises grocers or bakers. Actually, the US Robinson-Patman act (which would be illegal here, but is still in force in the US) is intended to have that effect. The UK, through its subpostoffice system. subsidises convenience stores, but I'm sure that's not what you had in mind

The CAP might have the effect of subsidising some small farmers. But what it - brilliantly - manages to do is to subsidise agribusiness at the same time as driving prices up.

And our fishing subsidies have had the effect of virtually eliminating the entire whitefish stock of the whole North Atlantic.

Granted even Britain's trains beat Amtrak, and no TV station on earth beats the Beeb. But, when it comes to destructive food subsidies, the EU and US pretty much come out even steven.

ira

Hi flanneruk,

It might not be applicable to the UK, and I am not an expert on Ag policy, but my little reading has led me to believe the the EU subsidies to farmers are greater than those in the US.

They differ in that the US subsidizes corn, wheat and soybeans - large farms -while the EU subsidies go to smaller farms.

Bakers and grocers are subsidized indirectly through payments to farmers and directly, at least in France, by keeping the price of flour low.

>...our fishing subsidies have had the effect of virtually eliminating the entire whitefish stock of the whole North Atlantic.<

We have managed to come close to wiping out the George's Banks, Pacific coast salmon, the Chesapeake Bay blue crab, and the Chesapeake Bay rockfish **without** subsidies.

flanneruk

EU subsidies don't go to farms of any size. They attach to commodities.

Markets like pigs and poultry don't get subsidies: markets like grain, tobacco and cotton do (yes, the EU does indeed grow tobacco and cotton). I'm not aware of any subsidy on flour: the grain subsidy keeps the sliced cottonwool junk we sell in Britain cheap just as much as that nice fresh baguette.

So if you're a smallholder with a few pigs and sheep, you stand up for yourself. A few thousand hectares of barley, and you're banking millions, courtesy of Europe's real workers.

BTW, Americans often underestimate the scale of their subsidies. Stuff like water subsidies keep down the cost of farming in places God meant to be desert just as effectively as straight payments to farmers.

Someone up there might be able to work out which of our systems subsidises more. But there really isn't as much in it as Americans think. They both keep agribusiness rich by impoverishing the world's poor.

Which is travel-related really, because it's why we should all be touring Mali and Cambodia to stimulate their economies.

bardo

Excellent public transport for every major city (and intercity) here in US is very doable. A 25 cent gas tax increase would do the job nicely and we would still be well below the $5.50/gal in UK.
Gridlocked commuters would get an extra hour/day with their loved ones. Maybe we will start seeing those cute little cars around here then too.....

FWIW, I think the Netherlands win the cheap/extensive transit prize hands down.

marktynernyc

Urban living is very prevalent in Europe (and through out the world) - even in a small Italian/Spanish/Croatian villages one gets an urban style of life - you can walk to the grocery store, there are places to meet, congregate and socialize. (Some of the reasons why I live in NYC - yet we don't really have any piazzas, we have parks but those are different) You don't find this approach to living in America very much.

Side note: I was just in the Italian Riviera - and I noticed how Italians love to cluster on the beaches - practically on top of each other. Yet in Sheep's Meadow in Central Park, people spread out a "polite distance' from each other. Maybe American just don't care for each other's company.

ira

> I noticed how Italians love to cluster on the beaches - practically on top of each other.<

Sort of like Rockaway or Jones' beach in the 40's.

>Yet in Sheep's Meadow in Central Park, people spread out a "polite distance' from each other. Maybe American just don't care for each other's company.<

Or maybe it's because we don't have to worry about being attacked by bears.

bardo

marktyner,
How true. In the US a developer w/ ties to the city would see a piazza and start salivating about how to squeeze some rentable high rise into it. But more importantly the city would allow/encourage it.
There are exceptions: Portland has drawn a circle around the city and forbidden any building outside of it, Vermont has outlawed Walmarts.
Here in DC it's a mixed bag. Many are moving into the city at the same time other are moving and living an hour (or more!) away.
This relates to the "fat" thread currently on this board. A recent study showed that people who live in cities tend to walk to the stores, work, parks, restauarnts, entertainment, friends, school, etc and so are much thinner. Well...duh!!! Of course they are.

SiobhanP

I agree about the TV ads in the US, too many too often. After 9 years of Irish and British TV I can't stand commercials every few minutes. Also the rubbish on tv...it's like the Springsteen song "67 channels and nothing's on". Also whats with all the "Not without my children" true story dramas. We are in stitches making up new versions of these after a few drinks. Too funny.

While we do pay high tax there are some benefits like healthcare and social welfare etc. We have forms of this in the U.S. but it seems better over here. Being on Welfare in the U.S. compared to Ireland is night and day. It would be avoided at all costs in the U.S. but seems to be slightly better over here as far as accomodation etc goes.

Food...Much cheaper in the U.S. and so is eating out. I feel there are more mid priced good restaurants/cafes/deli's in the U.S. than in europe but I guess it depends upon the country. I hate getting unripe tomotos in my salas for most of the year here when in France in December I had the freshest salad. Food styles are just different from each country and I love that here in europe.Pizza in Italy, fondue in france, tapas in spain...all fun to look forward to when visiting. I do miss NY sicilian food though and Mamouns Falafels

yk

I always regret for being born 10 yrs too early. I had the chance to study abroad in London for 1 year in the early '90s. The £ was at all time high at that time and being on a student budget, I didn't have much $ to spare. There was no chunnel, no budget airlines. I did get to tour around the UK quite a bit (including Scotland & Wales), but only went to Paris once (via coach, then on to ferry at Dover, then back on the coach). And one other time, coach to Brussels, then to Amsterdam, and coach back to London. In those days, smoking was allowed on coaches. I felt like I was trapped in a smoke house for hours on end!

If I were living there now, I would be flying all over Europe on Ryanair or Easyjet every weekend!

ira

>Being on Welfare in the U.S. compared to Ireland is night and day. It would be avoided at all costs in the U.S. but seems to be slightly better over here as far as accomodation etc goes.<

Hmmmmmm. How long does one have to be a resident before qualifying for welfare?

SiobhanP

Get your EU passport and find out! No seriously its not an ideal way to live but not as scary as some of the places I remember in NYC although the Ballymun flats had their moments that seemed like NYC to me. The are being demolised like many of the poorly built council flats from the 70's and being replaced with houses and more community based areas like I have seen in the U.S.

ilovetulips

Well my post definately started some diverse responses. I am not anywhere near exploring all that the US has to offer and what we have here is rich in culture, heritage, and different kinds of people. I am in my early 30's and would like to start a family soon so now is the time for my husband and I to do a big trip like Europe. I will go with the intentions of going back but I am going to take advantage of it while I have less obligations!

Mucky

Hi Neil Oz
We in the UK have the best of both worlds, High taxes and a crappy transport system.
ilovetulips,I do know what your saying but rememeber the old saying "the grass is always greener"

Muck

Jocelyn_P

ilovetulips,
Don't sweat the "seeing the US first" business--save that for family vacations when the kids are growing up. Have a great time!

sheila

What a nice thread (so far)

flanner, the point of the mid term CAP review is to move subsidy off production and point it at people. please God it'll work.

I certainly see the US, which I've only visited once, as being very culturally diverse. Maybe with less sense of its own history?

Huitres

While the Europeans have an enviable transportation system that links them to any country they want to go to in little or no time, don't be misled into thinking that they don't like the American culture. I have many Italian friends who daily watch the U.S. soap opera "Passions" and want any and everything American (T-shirts, namebrands, cigarettes, etc). I have found this to be the case nearly everywhere I went. Whereas I, on the other hand, want to be European and live in Europe! I think it is the typical "grass is greener on the other side" adage because all of us would probably rather be somewhere else than where we are - it always looks better on the other side of the fence. The variant cultures are good, it is what makes visiting Europe so special and different from our own experience here in the U.S.

capo

<i>The South has a unique culture - I would say New Orleans is a culture unto itself.</i>

I agree. I've only been to New Orleans once (in August of 1992 when Hurricane Andrew came roaring by...that was quite a thrill!) but it's the one city I've been in in the U.S. where I felt like I was in another country. It's not just the Spanish architecure of the French Quarter either; it's also the bawdy-laissez-faire-bon-temps-roulez ambience you don't have in other American cities.


TopMan, good comments about the &quot;special interests&quot; (tire manufacturers, oil companies, auto manufacturers) doing the U.S. a grave disservice by being successful in driving the extensive public transportation systems, like interurban railways and trolleys, out of business in the 20th century.

It makes one wonder why this didn't happen (or happen as much) in European cities. Because there wasn't enough pressure, or because there was too much resistance, or a combination of both?

illusion321

&quot;I have many Italian friends who daily watch the U.S. soap opera &quot;Passions&quot;


Haha that is the WORSt soap, but i will admit that because it is soo off the wall i will watch it on my day off.