How has Rome changed in last 30 years?
Jul 28th, 2015, 05:57 PM
#21
In 1963, I remember seeing more people in religious attire, and not just in/near St. Peter's. Growing up in a suburb of Los Angeles, nuns in black habits were not very common, but they were more familiar (to this Protestant) than priests and padres in black and brown robes and hats.
The trains were clean(er), and I don't recall any graffiti.
There was a fraction of today's tourist levels and not that many cars on the roads. Tourists were better dressed, and there were porters and others to help with wheel-less luggage.
Finding a western-style toilet away from your hotel could be a challenge. Air conditioning, even in hotels, was rare.
My memory may be faulty, or I may be mixing up Rome with another city I visited that summer, but I recall seeing WW2 bomb damage, probably near Termini.
The trains were clean(er), and I don't recall any graffiti.
There was a fraction of today's tourist levels and not that many cars on the roads. Tourists were better dressed, and there were porters and others to help with wheel-less luggage.
Finding a western-style toilet away from your hotel could be a challenge. Air conditioning, even in hotels, was rare.
My memory may be faulty, or I may be mixing up Rome with another city I visited that summer, but I recall seeing WW2 bomb damage, probably near Termini.
Jul 28th, 2015, 06:31 PM
#23
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Jean, great memories and observations.
It did seem that there were many people in religious clothing back then, perhaps clothing was more traditional, so more noticeable. My girls were little and loved seeing all the black robes and sometimes, unique hats.
As to tourists being better dressed, Oh yes! I have pictures of myself and my Mom. We were wearing dresses and/or jackets (kind if Jackie-O) and low heels for touring Rome and Venice - in summer. Our girls were wearing dresses, pinafores, and hats. No jeans or T-shirts to be seen. Guess that is not a change in Rome though, more of society in general. Can't complain, because I love jeans now.
Wheeled luggage - best invention ever for travelers!
Do miss all the porters at stations though.
It did seem that there were many people in religious clothing back then, perhaps clothing was more traditional, so more noticeable. My girls were little and loved seeing all the black robes and sometimes, unique hats.
As to tourists being better dressed, Oh yes! I have pictures of myself and my Mom. We were wearing dresses and/or jackets (kind if Jackie-O) and low heels for touring Rome and Venice - in summer. Our girls were wearing dresses, pinafores, and hats. No jeans or T-shirts to be seen. Guess that is not a change in Rome though, more of society in general. Can't complain, because I love jeans now.
Wheeled luggage - best invention ever for travelers!
Do miss all the porters at stations though.
Aug 3rd, 2015, 02:56 AM
#24
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I'm planning a trip to Rome in 2016, just starting my preliminary research....and after reading this thread I'm a little sad. I feel like I missed out on the 'authentic' Rome!
Please tell me I am wrong!
Please tell me I am wrong!
Aug 3rd, 2015, 05:18 AM
#26
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Judy,
When we were in Istanbul, I met an older woman who had traveled there when she was a very young woman. When she told me about all the camels that had been around back then, I felt I had really missed out, but she said it had also been a time when women were not treated well and she had often felt frightened. She said the camels had seemed dirty rather than exotic.
Things always change. Just think, none of us got to see games and exotic animals at the colosseum or Pompeii before the eruption, but we also did not have to witness Christians being killed or try to escape from fire. Missing those doesn't seem much of a loss.
Seeing the Sistine Chapel cleaned and some of the fountains clean and sparkling are great changes. Fewer people smoking is a really good change. Better bathrooms, trains and busses running pretty much on time, archeological sites being better preserved and cared for - all very good things.
All the beauty of history, art and architecture is still there and will be new and wonderful to you.
When we were in Istanbul, I met an older woman who had traveled there when she was a very young woman. When she told me about all the camels that had been around back then, I felt I had really missed out, but she said it had also been a time when women were not treated well and she had often felt frightened. She said the camels had seemed dirty rather than exotic.
Things always change. Just think, none of us got to see games and exotic animals at the colosseum or Pompeii before the eruption, but we also did not have to witness Christians being killed or try to escape from fire. Missing those doesn't seem much of a loss.
Seeing the Sistine Chapel cleaned and some of the fountains clean and sparkling are great changes. Fewer people smoking is a really good change. Better bathrooms, trains and busses running pretty much on time, archeological sites being better preserved and cared for - all very good things.
All the beauty of history, art and architecture is still there and will be new and wonderful to you.
Aug 3rd, 2015, 06:18 AM
#28
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Sassafrass - thank you for your note! You are absolutely correct.....reading through the thread made me think I had missed out on the genuine Rome, but you're right, I think the good will far outweigh anything I might think I'm not experiencing.
OK, I am back on track and excited about researching and planning my Italy adventure!
OK, I am back on track and excited about researching and planning my Italy adventure!
Aug 3rd, 2015, 08:20 AM
#30
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" I feel like I missed out on the 'authentic' Rome!"
Well, you are 2,000 years too late for the true Forum experience. Mind you, even at the height of religious persecution, Christian executions never topped a handful a week.
But Rome's been changing constantly since Romulus and Remus - and if you want to see the Rome of the 1950s, Cinecitta (about 30 mins by tube from the centre) is more a theme park devoted to the period than an Italian version of Universal Studios.
Crowds have been almost constant. I've never seen the number of tourists walking round St Peter's as great as the normal congregation for a major service - and the few hundred normally milling round the Piazza outside amount to about one-thousandth of the crowd routinely attending the Easter blessing or a canonisation.
The ten thousand or so visiting the Colosseum every day are a tiny fraction of the crowd the stadium got in the second century AD for a show, and the "crowds" looking round the Forum are nothing compared to the numbers who'd gather there most days in the Classical era.
The empty squares and sites some of us remember are what's truly inauthentic: the product of a brief era when Romans didn't bother, and few people from outside visited. There have been a few other periods over the past 3,000 years when Rome was equally empty (like after the Visigoths knocked it about in 410, or the immediate postwar Rome of the de Sica or Rossellini films). But they've been the exception.
Most writers about Rome since about 200 BC quote far more intrusive inconveniences from Roman crowds than a few selfie-stick wavers.
Well, you are 2,000 years too late for the true Forum experience. Mind you, even at the height of religious persecution, Christian executions never topped a handful a week.
But Rome's been changing constantly since Romulus and Remus - and if you want to see the Rome of the 1950s, Cinecitta (about 30 mins by tube from the centre) is more a theme park devoted to the period than an Italian version of Universal Studios.
Crowds have been almost constant. I've never seen the number of tourists walking round St Peter's as great as the normal congregation for a major service - and the few hundred normally milling round the Piazza outside amount to about one-thousandth of the crowd routinely attending the Easter blessing or a canonisation.
The ten thousand or so visiting the Colosseum every day are a tiny fraction of the crowd the stadium got in the second century AD for a show, and the "crowds" looking round the Forum are nothing compared to the numbers who'd gather there most days in the Classical era.
The empty squares and sites some of us remember are what's truly inauthentic: the product of a brief era when Romans didn't bother, and few people from outside visited. There have been a few other periods over the past 3,000 years when Rome was equally empty (like after the Visigoths knocked it about in 410, or the immediate postwar Rome of the de Sica or Rossellini films). But they've been the exception.
Most writers about Rome since about 200 BC quote far more intrusive inconveniences from Roman crowds than a few selfie-stick wavers.
Aug 3rd, 2015, 08:43 AM
#31
if you want to avoid selfie-stick wavers and other nuisances, I would suggest keeping away from the main tourist sites and concentrating on the "lesser" ones [which anywhere else would have people queuing round the corner].
most museums and galleries in Rome have very few people visiting, as the crowds go to see the usual suspects. of course you will want to go there too, but go early or late, is my advice.
most museums and galleries in Rome have very few people visiting, as the crowds go to see the usual suspects. of course you will want to go there too, but go early or late, is my advice.
Aug 3rd, 2015, 01:27 PM
#32
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Thanks everyone....of course I didn't mean the ACTUAL authentic Rome! I was referring to the Rome before the technology overload.
Nonetheless thanks again for the insight.
Since my son's GF is a teacher we won't be traveling until the end of June, so I guess I should expect a lot of crowds.
Nonetheless thanks again for the insight.
Since my son's GF is a teacher we won't be traveling until the end of June, so I guess I should expect a lot of crowds.
Aug 4th, 2015, 05:07 AM
#34
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This is a very interesting discussion. Thanks for all that have contributed both the negative and the POSITIVE things about today's Rome. I imagine a lot of these comments would apply to other tourist heavy sites in Italy and in other countries.
I was in Rome 4 years ago for 4 nights. Was it crowded in some areas, yes. Were the crowds unbearable, no. Was even the worst crowd (probably the inside of St. Peters) worth it to be there. Heavens YES.
We are going back this October for 5 nights. I can't wait. Since we visited a lot of the "must sees" the first time around, our plans include a lot of just being there type things; people watching in piazzas, strolling through side streets, exploring and soaking it all in. We will be in touristy areas too, and I know it will be crowded. But it's ROME! Of course a lot of people want to be there.
It's funny the comments I hear about crowds. A co worker said it was going to be too crowded in Europe this year because of the strength of the US dollar. He has never been to Europe, but every year he takes his family to a big amusement park and has waited as long as an hour and a half for a ride that lasts 5 minutes. To each his own I guess.
I was in Rome 4 years ago for 4 nights. Was it crowded in some areas, yes. Were the crowds unbearable, no. Was even the worst crowd (probably the inside of St. Peters) worth it to be there. Heavens YES.
We are going back this October for 5 nights. I can't wait. Since we visited a lot of the "must sees" the first time around, our plans include a lot of just being there type things; people watching in piazzas, strolling through side streets, exploring and soaking it all in. We will be in touristy areas too, and I know it will be crowded. But it's ROME! Of course a lot of people want to be there.
It's funny the comments I hear about crowds. A co worker said it was going to be too crowded in Europe this year because of the strength of the US dollar. He has never been to Europe, but every year he takes his family to a big amusement park and has waited as long as an hour and a half for a ride that lasts 5 minutes. To each his own I guess.
Aug 4th, 2015, 05:16 AM
#35
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Cpelk -- I would rather spend an hour waiting in line to see the Sistine Chapel than 15 minutes waiting in line to go on a ride, any ride, at any amusement park.
I absolutely love Europe and have visited many countries. I'm so looking forward to going to Rome next year. It's been on my bucket list since forever.
So excited!
I absolutely love Europe and have visited many countries. I'm so looking forward to going to Rome next year. It's been on my bucket list since forever.
So excited!
Aug 4th, 2015, 11:31 AM
#36
for those wishing to avoid the crowds, I can recommend the galleria Doria Pamphilij on the Via del Croce - half family home, half gallery, it is delightful and normally almost completely deserted.
http://www.doriapamphilj.it/roma/en/
another place now on my list of places to visit in Rome is the Quirinale Palace. Home of the Italian government, it is apparently the 6th biggest palace in the world. Who knew? there are gardens, furnished apartments, collections of porcelain and furniture and I know not what else to see.
http://palazzo.quirinale.it
it opens again in September. Visits appear to be free but you have to book 5 days in advance on line and take you passport or other form of identity.
looks like fun!
http://www.doriapamphilj.it/roma/en/
another place now on my list of places to visit in Rome is the Quirinale Palace. Home of the Italian government, it is apparently the 6th biggest palace in the world. Who knew? there are gardens, furnished apartments, collections of porcelain and furniture and I know not what else to see.
http://palazzo.quirinale.it
it opens again in September. Visits appear to be free but you have to book 5 days in advance on line and take you passport or other form of identity.
looks like fun!
Aug 9th, 2015, 09:34 AM
#40
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Hi annhig/Judy_Rosa
Just back from our 9th visit to The Eternal City and Quirinale Palace was high on our 'to do' list. There is a free tour (I think you just pay a booking fee) but we chose the €10 option which includes the gardens, Carriage Museum and Porcelain collection etc.
It was absolutely worth it. A video introduces the history of the palace and from then on you see room after sumptuous room. I was particularly taken with the apartments used by the House of Savoy - having seen their final resting place in the Pantheon the day before it was good to see where they had enjoyed life.
We were also interested in the gardens. Last year we had queued on June 2nd (the only day in the year they were open)and while the atmosphere was amazing then it was good to see them without crowds. We also appreciated the green grass - sadly lacking elsewhere in a city experiencing a heatwave!
Just back from our 9th visit to The Eternal City and Quirinale Palace was high on our 'to do' list. There is a free tour (I think you just pay a booking fee) but we chose the €10 option which includes the gardens, Carriage Museum and Porcelain collection etc.
It was absolutely worth it. A video introduces the history of the palace and from then on you see room after sumptuous room. I was particularly taken with the apartments used by the House of Savoy - having seen their final resting place in the Pantheon the day before it was good to see where they had enjoyed life.
We were also interested in the gardens. Last year we had queued on June 2nd (the only day in the year they were open)and while the atmosphere was amazing then it was good to see them without crowds. We also appreciated the green grass - sadly lacking elsewhere in a city experiencing a heatwave!
