Hi, i'm planning a monthlong trip from Dec 16-Jan 14, and planning on visiting England, the Netherlands, Germany, and France. I've been to all the Eurail and Inter-rail websites, and i'm thinking about buying a Eurail pass for the month, but theres not much info on the web about any of the international rail systems. I was wondering if anyone else had any information or could help me with this. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

A great source: the free European Planning & Rail Guide - go to www.budgeteuropetravel.com and request one - lots of tips on using European trains, itineraries, etc. I twill answer many of a novice travelers' questions about European trains and passes and is really the best free guide i know of on European trains and railpasses. If you have any questions on European trains or railpasses BETS' 800-441-9413 European rail info line answers them all without obligation - this is an unparalleled service i believe in the U.S. (Anyone knowing any other such free service answering questions please tell me and i'll cheerlead for that service as well.) www.ricksteves.com also has good info. He charges about $65/hr however to answer European rail questions or help planning trips - though if you buy a pass from his company you get a few minutes free Eurail counseling.

As for Inter-Rail it's only for European residents - Eurailpasses are only for non-European residents - that's the basic difference - the trains covered are all the same.

I am guessing that you have not been yet to www.railsaver.com

Unless you are a traveling sales(wo)man, planning on traveling to a different city every day, you might find that a "rail pass" will cost you more than ordinary ("point-to-point&quot rail tickets.

You may also find http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/rail_menu.htm to be useful.

Best wishes,

Rex

And by the way novices often look at only the Eurailpass as a possibility - in actuality a one-month Eurailpass could well be a waste of money for you - does not cover England for one thing - strongly look at the Eurail Select pass good for any three countries you like or things like the Germany-Benelux pass (Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg are called Benelux and are one country for pass purposes) and perhaps some kind of pass for England if it warrants it.

In addition there are many online discounted tickets if you are in fact making only a few long distance trips and these could be cheaper than a pass. Fodors has many excellent resources from folks like TimS and Larryincolorado and several others who are gurus at getting the best online fares and will help you with this if you pose a question. Generally though these have severe restrctions for the cheapest ones and a pass gives you more freedom.

And there are cheap airlines - say you want to fly from London to Berlin rather than going overland. Lots of factors - don't automatically think a Eurailpass is your best deal.

Wow, quick responses! Thanks, that info is very helpful. I have one more question... is there a way to find out which stations specifically have international train service? on all the websites i didnt see anything about that. it would help a LOT with my planning, hehe.
thanks again.

Yeah, I was thinking about getting the Eurail select pass for 3-4 countries.

Nearly all main stations in large European cities will have both internatinal, national, regional and local commuter trains - there are no stations expressly for say international trains - though there are many small stations where international or express trains will not stop.

For your purposes your question is moot.

<< And there are cheap airlines... >>

The website www.whichbudget.com is as important as any rail website for your plans.

For well over half of the train routes that exceed six hours, you can find a flight that is cheaper, (almost always) faster, and (possibly) more convenient.

But not as scenic - flying between large towns you see airports and big cities but no countryside in between. By train you see the lay of the land. Granted however if you train from Amsterdam to Nice you may want to cop a cheap flight back to London or Amsterdam. And flying these days often entails quite a bit of hassle. Take a six hour train trip - see the countrside and cities in between vs going to the airport (1 hr), checking in early (1-2 hr), baggage retrieval (up to 1 hr), getting into city (1 hr) - trains take you into the city center. Add to the cost of flying airport transfers. But granted Rex has a point - don't neglect factoring flying between places very far apart.

And an alternative to flying is to take overnight trains between two far removed cities. There are literally hundreds of night trains in Europe - you save the cost of a hotel and arrive bright and early in the next city.

Of course you don't see the countryside much but taking an overnight train can be exciting in and of itself.

A railpass would pay the basic train fare but not for the sleeping accommodations, which run a gamut from couchettes (about $25 p.p) to singles and doulbes - much more pricey but at $60-80 p.p. still equivalent or less than a typical Fodorite hotel.

And on a flexipass if you take an overnight train it's only one day on a pass - the old 7pm rule - board the overnight train after 7pm and the next day is your unlimited travel day.

Thus you take the overnight train Amsterdam-Munich and go onto Austria the next morning and use only one day on a pass.

<but theres not much info on the web about any of the international rail systems>

for schedules for trains all over Europe go to the German Rail web site (www.bahn.de), the very best and easiest schedule site (for trains in every country) i've found. For many of your trips the site will also give you fares in euros for tickets bought in Europe and also indicate when so-called SPAR discounted tickets are available on that route. Thus you can figure out the value of a pass better than going to railsaver.com because they don't seem to use local prices but prices for point-point tickets they sell, which are often higher than those in actually sold in Europe.

<but theres not much info on the web about any of the international rail systems>

So you don't know about the Holy Grail of train websites - www.seat61.com

>there[']s not much info on the web about any of the international rail systems.

I certainly can’t agree with that. I have spent years researching the European rail system, and there are many resources out there if you know where to find them. Unfortunately, you haven’t left yourself much time to learn.

Although I wouldn’t call “seat61” the Holy Grail, it does have a lot of good information. One of the best sources of schedule info is the German Rail website, www.bahn.de, but it only has fares for connections starting in/ending in/ or within Germany. Websites for other European rail websites have fare in those countries, and you can find those URLs on the Eurail website at www.eurail.com. Some night train fares and reservations can be found and made at www.citynightline.ch and http://buchung.nachtzugreise.de.

I would be very careful about booking flights on so-called low fare airlines. Although the advertised fares may seem low, you also have to consider the added taxes and fares, and the cost, in both time and money, of getting to the far-flung airports these airlines use. It costs almost $40 and takes 90 minutes to get from Heathrow to Stansted. A trip from Beauvais (fake Paris) to Treviso (fake Venice) takes more time on buses than in the air. Ryan uses Hahn, which it fraudulently calls “Frankfurt”; it costs $25 and take almost two hours to get from Hahn into Frankfurt.

All I can say is make sure you know all the ramifications before you commit to one of these flights. Too many people have written to these boards desperately looking for inexpensive overnight accommodation near one of the airports used by the cheapo airlines, because their flight leaves before public transportation can get them to the airport, and the only local hotels with early morning shuttles are very expensive.

As an alternative, night trains often cost less than the total cost (fare, taxes, fees, buses to/from the airports, overnight accommodations) of flying. They also use less useable awake time, and the train is more convenient than multiple bus trips, check-in lines, and security lines.

As for train passes, I used one once in this century, and, for the trains I used, it paid for itself, just barely. However, there were less expensive alternatives I could have used. You really have to get the cost of all the supplements and reservations you will need with a rail pass, the cost of point-to-point tickets to the same places, and the cost of discounted, promotional fees (like the German Länder Tickets), and compare them column to column on a spreadsheet to find your best alternative. It is hard work. If you are lazy, don’t have time, or just don’t’ care, use Railsaver, but realize that it’s fares are not very accurate, and you might not get the right answer. And, be sure to check “only if railpasses saves me money” instead of “best combination of convenience and price”. The latter will recommend rail passes every time.

In general, I would say that, if you have some very long days of train travel, a rail pass will pay, but for many, shorter trips, particularly ones for which there are less expensive alternative, forget the pass.

Seems strange that there is not a site that gives comprehensive prices, in local currency, for international train trips in Europe - at least not one that i've seen or ever read about.

Again, anyone know one?

I don't think one exists. With the ever-changing costs in transportation and services it would be too huge a task to keep such a website up-to-date.

Rick Steves has a map showing time/costs for a large number of international trips at http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/comparetickets.htm. Of course these are only estimates.

Paul

Who would fund such a website, and with what goal? I think that's the bottom line. No national rail company has any reason to try to do all of Europe, and any site that has a reason to try to do it (eg, Raileurope), is a for-profit agency and thus marks up the rates. Even Raileurope has no incentive to try to incorporate every single train trip in every country and only includes the most common routes. It seems an impossible task to try to do it for everywhere.

I would have to be somebody who enjoyed putting something like that together and then somehow thought they could make money by selling ads, I suppose.

Well it already exists i think - in Europe, say in Paris, you can buy a ticket to any city in Europe i believe and their computer system has the price in Euros - some exceptions may be Thalys and Eurostar type trains but if only we could tap into the same computer system we could then get real prices to compare to whether we should purchase a railpass or not. Rick Steves i expect uses RailEurope fares in his chart, but not sure but would bet on it.

Of course going into the sncf in France ticketing site would lead to lots of problems - you could probably issue your own tickets, etc.

But i believe it's already there and called Eurail Tariff - point to point fares, which RailEurope used to convert to fairly competitive fares but no longer.

For the best European train information, schedules, and maps buy a copy of the Thomas Cook European Rail Timetable at http://tinyurl.com/zfewx
This costs about $30 delivered in about 2 weeks. I consider it indispensible for traveling with a rail pass.

If you have not used the trains in Europe before the best introduction on the internet is at http://tinyurl.com/eym5b, a page from Enjoy-Europe.com.
There are four well illustrated sections in this primer on traveling by train in Europe.

I agree with PalenqueBob about The Budget Europe Travel Service in Ann Arbor. BETS publishes a great booklet called the European Planning & Rail Guide. This is available for free at ttp://tinyurl.com/n5uab. BETS also sells passes and other traveler's help. I bought my last Eurailpass at raileurope.com but I think I'll use BETS the next time. Get their booklet before you buy a travel guidebook. You might not need one.

>Who would fund such a website, and with what goal? I think that's the bottom line. No national rail company has any reason to try to do all of Europe..

How about Eurail? Eurail (not to be confused with Rail Europe) is a consortium co-owned by most of the national rail companies, which already display fares and sell tickets online for travel within their countries.

And PalenqueBob, you have to be correct; there must be a data base somewhere. I think I could go to a ticket counter in Frankfurt and buy a ticket to Rome, and they would know what to charge me, despite the fact that it would involve four different trains in three countries. It would just be a matter of being able to tap into that database.

But the ticket prices you see today online at the various national rail websites are not there for our benefit in comparing prices. They come with an offer to sell the tickets online. There is probably some kind of an agreement not to sell online tickets for other rail companies’ trains, so they also don’t show the prices.

Eurail now sells its rail passes direct through their website. I don’t think they used to. They also used to sell some point to point tickets (Eurail Tickets) through their outlets, but they no longer do. Perhaps the loss of that source, and having to find new, less convenient sources, is what caused Rail Europe to raise their prices.