Bananana

Hi, I'm thinking studying abroad next spring, and I am particularly interested in the Netherlands and Norway because I've never been to the two countries before. I'm worried that I will face racism because of my race (Chinese; ¼ Russian), especially since that my friends told me countries like Italy are becoming a bit more hostile toward Asians. Are my worries warranted? I would love to hear about your personal experiences too. Thanks.

ribeirasacra

Sorry what are you asking? Are you going to Italy? If so you have tagged your question for The Netherlands and Norway.
Please be clearer about the counties you have heard about and the counties you want to study in.

janisj

>>Are you going to Italy? If so you have tagged your question for The Netherlands and Norway>and I am particularly interested in the Netherlands and Norway because I've never been to the two countries before.

hetismij2

The Netherlands has quite a large Chinese population, along with plenty of Indonesians, Thais and other Asians of all sorts. I have never heard of them having a problem. In cities they just blend in to the general mix, and even small villages are used to having Asians living there and afaik have no problem.

A lot of the universities have high numbers of Chinese students too.

Norway is likewise a liberal country with an increasingly mixed population.

dyoll

You'll find a large number of Asian students in Norway and I can't see you having any problem or feel that people are hostile - certainly nothing like that you describe in Italy. Norway is a very liberal country. In all countries of the world there are a few people who don't like 'foreigners' for one reason or another. If you are very sensitive you are going to feel that wherever you travel.

Bananana

@ribeirasacra
No, I'm not going to Italy. As stated in both my thread title itself and in the beginning of the paragraph, I specifically said "The Netherlands" and "Norway". As janisj explained, I only used Italy as an example of an European nation that is becoming increasingly hostile toward Asians.

sandralist

Bananana

While it is true that many areas of Italy are increasingly hostile to Asians (and it has nothing to do whether you are sensitive but how you look) it is not true of the entire country of Italy. Which is no excuse and no consolation but only to point out that a few areas of Italy have had Asian immigration for a very long time over many generations -- places like Florence and Genova or more recently Milan -- and there you will find a different attitude. I am only mentioning this in case you ever want to go to Italy because it is worth asking whether the places where you might like to go have open or hostile attitudes. I don't know if different parts of the Netherlands or Norway have different attitudes. I felt that in Dutch cities people were generally more open to everybody whereas a just a short train ride away in Belgian cities things were not as comfortable for people who didin't look like they were born in Belgium (even if they were).

ribeirasacra

I am still confused about the bit about Italy. It is a very different country and has no bearing on the relationship to the question asked. Hence my posting.

sandralist

ribeirasacra

The poster is asking if the Netherlands or Norway is like Italy when it comes to race relations -- in particular when it comes to how Asian tourists are treated. It is a fact that in certain parts of Italy people have become overtly unfriendly to Asians on sight. This news gets reported back to Asia and people then want to know if other European countries are undergoing those kinds of changes.

So what is going on in some parts of Italy very much has a bearing on what is worrying the poster who admits to knowing very little about Norway or the Netherlands but would like to go there. Fortunately the answer from people who live in those countries and aren't afraid to be honest about racism is that for visiting Asians that kind of problem hasn't developed like it has in some parts of Italy.

Mimar

Don't think you'll have any prejudice problems in either the Netherlands or Norway. Both are very liberal places.

However, Norway is VERY expensive. 8€ beers might be hard on a student budget

PalenQ

You'll have no more problems in those two places than anywhere else and probably less - I'd say none - I've been to Holland a zillion times and though the country is getting a little phobic over integration with anti-immigrant a hot-button issue in say Holland and now even Norway Asians are not the target of the increasing approbation I would think - mainly the Moslem immigrants that strike fear in these homogenous thinking countries.

BigRuss

>

Wow, that statement is pregnant with foolishness.

To the OP: I'm thinking the Dutch and Norwegians wouldn't care a bit about your Chinese heritage because they're Dutch and Norwegian and generally don't care about the backgrounds of people who just want to come and enjoy their countries (unless you're a black soccer player in Netherlands . . . four words: Jozy Altidore Den Bosch).

But keeping the Russian part under wraps might be good. As a Russian exchange student once said to me when we were all at a LOT counter at JFK trying to get rerouted after our flight had been canceled - she was going to Moscow and being studiously ignored by the LOT personnel - "nobody likes Russians." ;-)

PalenQ

the long-held myth of Dutch tolerance, dating back to the Pilgrims fleeing there first before the New World, has been long smashed with the significant rise of an anti-immigrant political party - it is not all kumbala like some Dutch long ago told me - that they were color- and race- and religious-blind and welcomed all. That said tourists or students should have no overt problems IME (not so familiar with Norway) as long as you don't flaunt religion, etc in their face - the rise of Jihadists has given Moslems all over the world a black eye - unjustly IMO.

But for OP this is a non-worry issue. Have fun like young Dutch are want to do and seemingly often do. Norway is much more tight and reserved on the social scene and even things like a beer in a bar cost a fortune - you can have a modicum of nightlife in Holland without breaking the bank - not so in Norway.

I'd chose Holland over Norway in a heartbeat - clime0wise - who wants to go thru near total darknes in winter and summers that can be dauntingly cool - Holland's climate ain't nothing to brag about but at least the sun won't set for several weeks in winter and they can have warm, but rarely hot, summer and of course a lot of rain - look at Dutch trees - they inevitably have green mold or whatever that is on the westward-facing sides where the wet winds often blow from. Rarely snows however or gets really cold.

So for expenses and weather chose Holland for sure. English - the Norwegians even IME speak better than the Dutch do and the Dutch speak better English than many Americans and Brits!

bilboburgler

"the long-held myth of Dutch tolerance, dating back to the Pilgrims fleeing there first before the New World"

I understood the Pilgrims left because they hated the religious tolerance being offered to people in the old world and wanted to take their zealotry somewhere else. Shows how many myths there are.

BigRuss

>

Holland is a region. The country is Netherlands.

PalenQ

Big Russ - why do the Netherlands Board of Tourism often use the word "Holland" - like Welcome to Holland, etc and use www.holland.com?

Tourism in Holland - Holland.com
www.holland.com/
Welcome to Holland.com, the official website of the Netherlands Board of Tourism and Conventions, where you receive all the information for your ... Holland Cycling Nation ... Public transport: the easiest and cheapest way to travel in Holland.

So for your edification Big Russ you are plain right and plain wrong - yes I know there is a North Holland and a South Holland and the rest of the country like Friesland, Brabant, etc but it has like the word Chunnel for Channel Rail tunnel trains - now that Holland is often used even buy Dutch to describe their country in general.

My presumed ignorance by you of that was off the mark and you are flat-out wrong - Holland is now used generically for The Netherlands and I am shocked that you did not know that. Well you learn something every day - sometimes more.

Cheers!

PalenQ

bilbo - Puritans left England because of the religious intolerance there and fled to Holland - to my understanding because it was a bit more welcoming - they were only using Holland as a transit base - probably because they were forbidden from leaving from England itself - Holland was a bit more tolerant of them than was England - well maybe what I learnt in school was wrong and a myth but that's what we were taught - may be incorrect - I do not know the details that much.

PalenQ

bilbo - Wikipedia says yes that was not totally correct - I thought the Pilgrims moved from England to Holland then to Plymouth - but no 800 left from Plymouth England and many more later - they enticed similar Pilgrims from Holland who were similarly dissed by the ruling Church there to also go with them.

Thus bilbo - you are indeed correct and I am wrong - the Dutch were not more tolerant it seems of religious descent than England. Thanks for the correction.

BigRuss

>

Jump off the high horse. You have presumed a lack of knowledge on my part and you are incorrect. Holland has been generically used for Netherlands for decades. The differentiation is necessary because the country is Netherlands. And the Dutch use of "holland.com" doesn't prove the terms interchangeable, it proves they know of the ignorance that exists.

If you think this is new, you're daft.

PalenQ

Jump off the high horse. You have presumed a lack of knowledge on my part and you are incorrect.>

same as you did to me!

You have obviously not been in Holland much - you saee 'Holland' written all over and Dutch will call their country Holland too.

Your presumption of why The Netherlands Tourist Board Flashes Holland all the time is also pure hypothetical speculation based again IMO on total ignorance.