Janisj and bilboburgler are both right. Thanks for the corrections, guys. Sorry, I forgot how cold it is in England right now. I should have remembered because I've needed a jacket there in summer a couple of times.

My goodness, thank you all so much. I am currently working on my PhD in travelcard. Sheesh! So even though no one is willing to discuss this with me, I am forcing a conversation with DH and DS tonight to discuss our day trip.

Sounds like gardens are out for this trip. That's fine, it would bore the rest of my family to tears.

So right now, here's a rough itinerary.
Day 1: flight arrives 12:30, head to flat. I really need to play this one by ear. What appears to be a drawback on where we are staying is the lack of grocery stores in the area. After unpacking, I plan on heading to the nearest store and getting some things for breakfast and dinner. Then I guess we need to head to Charing Cross station to get our travelcards. I want to go to afternoon tea so I will find somewhere in Mayfair. Maybe we will just walk around that area for the first afternoon. Walk to Trafalgar square. Any suggestions on good places to eat in the area? We prefer casual, but good food.

Day 2: Tower of London a.m, and St. Pauls Cathederal and Churchill War Rooms p.m. Any suggestions for a good lunch place. Pub food? Is this day too packed? Dinner at the flat. I want to give enough time for the Churchill War Rooms. DS is so excited when I told him, and is imitating Churchill. Now my husband says he wants to go to the London Eye. So.....what works best here knowing we have to do the Tower of London and the Churchill War Rooms?

Day 3: Hampton Court Palace, train/bus to and boat back. This may be switched with another day if rain or colder day than the rest.

Day 4: Day Trip to ? Frankly, texasbookworm, your suggestion of Dover has me intrigued. A spectacular castle and the white cliffs of Dover. How far is that by train? Of course, Bath and Oxford are in the running, too.

Day 5: British Library, British Museum, Borough Market for lunch. Any suggestions for afternoon activities?

Day 6: Victoria and Albert Museum, Notting Hill just cause. While I know there is shopping in Mayfair, we cannot afford it, but I thought Notting Hill would provide the shopping fix for DD.

Day 7: Westminster Abbey and walk around, Big Ben, House of Parliaments, walk to Buckingham Palace.

How does that look? Again, do we need to get the travelcard considering where we are going? You all have been so kind with your suggestions. Oh, and Isabel, thank you for the HP link. I will try to work some of these into our trip. Gosh! Two more days of planning, and I feel overwhelmed. I haven't layered in lunch spots, at least one place for a good English breakfast, and dinner out at least once or twice. I don't want to book us up so much that we don't have time to just enjoy so walk, and talk.

Any suggestions for great places for afternoon tea. Will my guys feel uncomfortable going?

Thank you!

Just random notes:

On day 1 don't count on and afternoon tea. W/ a 12:30 arrival (LHR?) you'll be lucky to check in to the flat by about 2:30 PM and likely later. Then unpacking, grocery shopping, travelcard purchasing, -most of the afternoon is shot. Plan an nice dinner instead.

(BTW - where is the flat? Is it in Mayfair? There are very few areas that don't have some food/grocery shops. In/on the fringes of Mayfair are at least a small Tesco, a Sainsbury's and a Marks & Spencer food shop. And if it IS Mayfair - why are you going to Charing Cross to buy the travelcards. Victoria is closer/easier)

>>Day 2: Tower of London a.m, and St. Pauls Cathederal and Churchill War Rooms p.m. <<

Too much IMO. Tower - about 4 hours + St Paul's, maybe 90 minutes + travel time + lunch = late afternoon. The War Rooms take a couple of hours. But you could do something like walk along the South Bank, maybe ride the Eye.

>>Day 5: British Library, British Museum, Borough Market for lunch. Any suggestions for afternoon activities?<<

If you are visiting the British Museum and British Library - Do the Library first and plan on lunch at the Museum because those two sites will easily take til 2 or 3PM.

>>Day 7: Westminster Abbey and walk around, Big Ben, House of Parliaments, walk to Buckingham Palac<<

This is where I'd fit in the War Rooms. It is right there and you only have one other major site (the Abbey) the rest are 'walk by's'

Dang, I lost my response! So I don't know if I'll remember everything I just thought of.

1.Day 2 looks like too much. The Tower has always taken us at least 3 hours. St. Paul's at least 2. Travel in between. Plus eating and souvenir shopping. So---
just sayin'!

2.Day 5 looks impossible. You need to look at a map again; even if Borough Market is open this day (not open always) it's no where near the BM and BL. We always just grab something in the BM. And these will BE your afternoon activities! Ha. BM-minimum 2 hours and that would really be a joke--you should allow 3-4. BL--only need about an hour IN there, but there's travel time too. So even if you start when the BM opens (10) and do minimum, you're not done with the BL until 2 or 3 pm. Just sayin'!

3.I don't remember Dover travel time. We had a rail pass so just hopped on and I don't remember logistics. Hourish? If you do this, TAKE A TAXI from the train station. And it's a long steep slog between castle and cliffs, too. It is a day that needs planning. Oxford is easier. Just sayin'! Salisbury via train and a bus to Stonehenge and back is pretty easy too. Bath and York are FABULOUS but rather long day trips (esp. York, although it is doable and worth it!--We went there by car, though, not as a day trip.)

Day 6--For "shopping fix"--there're so many! Oxford Street, too, for that overwhelmed-by-London feeling. Carnaby Street but watch out for pickpockets. Regent Street. Don't ignore the experience (one time only!) of Harrod's as you are sorta near I think. But you should look for markets that might be open on the day you do this--like Camden Market. This is a pretty light day unless you just shop all day. But I wouldn't think Notting Hill would be only/best place to take DD. The VandA is terrific, though, so good place have a destination.

Day 7--I think this is the day to add the Churchill War Rooms. Abbey and walkaround stuff can be done by early afternoon and then not far to Rooms. And if this is a priority, just switch days.

Check RIGHT NOW possible days of closure and hours of operation for the DAYS OF THE WEEK you will be there. Don't want surprises.

Have a blast--take lots of layers and raingear and good walking shoes!

janisj--Ha. I really would like to travel with you--we seem to think alike a lot! Ha! We seem to have been giving rather the same advice!

And roris--janisj's advice for me has always been spot on and brilliant.

Wow - we were almost identical

(But I <i>did</i> beat you to it . . . Barely!)

Have a great trip and be warned we are having weird weather right now. A week ago we had a couple of beautiful warm blue sky sunny Spring days when people were out in T-shirts. And now we have snow. Come prepared for anything!

Thanks texasbookworm, janisj, and nona1 for still sticking with me. I appreciate the advice in stereo! janisj, our flat is in Mayfair, on Grosvenor Street, and I believe it is near regent street. Looking at my map, I thought Charing Cross was closer. No?

Thanks for the warnings about weather. We are Minnesotans, but that doesn't mean we are hardy, we just dress for the weather. I have warned all family members. The DD fashionplate has been warned. I don't believe Vogue will be photographing her on this vacation.

After looking at the forecast of rain/snow showers for most of our trip, I think Dover is probably out. Looks like Monday is the only day that precipitation is not expected. So should we go to Hampton Court Palace on that day to take a boat back, or is it just too darn cold even for that and just take the train both ways?

At this point, I think Bath might be winning the day trip discussion. DD and I are Jane Austen fans, so that link along with the Roman ruins, etc. is pretty cool. We walked through the Roman coliseum on a drizzly cold day with a wonderful private tour guide, and DD and DS were captivated, so we don't shy from inclement weather. DD and I would love to just go on a literary tour with Jane Austen, Charlotte Bronte in Thornton (DD's favorite novel of all time Jane Eyre) and Oscar Wilde. Another trip.

To throw another kink in plans--Winchester--where Miss Austen is buried and Arthur's round table is displayed (ha)--is a charming town, too. Closer than Bath. Not as much to see perhaps, but just sayin'! I've been to Bath 2 times and loved it, but not as a day trip from London.

Do come back and "trip report"!

>>our flat is in Mayfair, on Grosvenor Street, and I believe it is near regent street. Looking at my map, I thought Charing Cross was closer. No?<<

I believe Grosvenor St terminates at New Bond and doesn't meet up w/ Regent St (I don't have my AtoZ handy and am too lazy to look it up just now )

The closest tube station would be Bond St and next closest probably Green Park.

Green Park is one tube stop from Victoria Station. Or Bond St and Green park are both on the Jubilee line that goes to Waterloo. Any journey to Charing Cross would require line changes.

But if you wanted to walk it, Charing Cross is a tiny bit closer.

Oh - meant to add: Don't base any decisions on a long range weather forecast (or even a short range one)

The weather is extremely changeable and even if a forecast is 'accurate-ish', it might be raining in Mayfair, showery in Camden, and bright sun at the Tower of London . . .

Same for London vs Dover vs Bath.

How about Greenwich as a day trip ? No long journey and lots to see [10 minutes by train from London bridge or option to arrive by boat along Thames]. Architecture of the Queens house, stunning views and history of time plus Prime Meridian at Observatory, Cutty Sark, Royal Park. A full day trip of things to see but with minimal travel time.

By all means do chat with the older children. Husband too of course. Allow them to choose from list of places to see, things to do. No shrug of shoulders permitted!

roris, your routing looks OK, and indeed I would lean toward Stonehenge-Salisbury-Winchester with Magna Carta copy And no one has mentioned en route Chawton village with the Jane Austin house, Old Sarum (excellent book about this), and Avebury with stones as ancient as Stonehenge. Also of course Hampton Court could be seen en route. Further on, yes you will enjoy Bath.

Years ago we stayed in farm houses with dinners provided and lunch in pubs. So much to see in London itself.

Bill in Boston

I'll jump in here an suggest you learn a bus or two. it is soooo much more fun to be on a bus in London than the tube IMHO. There is a bus that goes from the Tower of London across to the London Eye so that is very simple transportation. I'll try to find my trip report that had those bus numbers on it.. or you can use the transport maps and figure it out.

I always go up to the Tate Modern for coffee and snack and enjoy peering out from their glassed-in café over the Thames .. not the London Eye but a great, free view.

Enjoy your time. Sounds like a great family trip.

iDavid Chipperfield is reconverting the Waterloo area which your husband will find fascinating.

http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/n...628653.article

We LOVED the Ledbury for lunch. They have a business lunch menu that was great value and excellent service and food for a special meal.

Here's that report with some more architectural comments. (not professional ones though)

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...ay-getaway.cfm

>> I'll try to find my trip report that had those bus numbers on it.. <<

That would be the #15

The #15 is one that goes across London past Tower Hill, St Paul's, Trafalgar Sq, etc.

Not to the Eye specifically but just across the river from it.

There's another one that crosses from Tower to Shakespeare in the round, then goes to tate modern and ends up near the eye.. ( right at ticket office practically!) it's in my report.. the RV1. I love that bus!

her is the route.. for all out there. it is a great sightseeing bus and goes almost everywhere you want to go along the river without the horrendously long walk.

Tower Gateway - London Bridge - Tate Modern - National Theatre - Waterloo - Covent Garden

I found Bath the be as dull and uninteresting. For a half hour longer train ride, you can go to York, England's second city and so big league stuff and experience some real history.

Also, for anyone visiting London I'd highly recommend the audio lecture series, "A History Of London" from the Teaching Company. The lecturer Robert Bucholz is the best I've ever heard. After listening to his course, your geographic walks through London become historical walks through Roman, Medieval and Victorian London.

A good choice to visit York but it was only England's second city back in the mists of time.

The walled city is a good mixture of medievel buildings and the railway age.