nessundorma

Having never been to Lincoln Park, I'm not sure what is being sought, but the parts of London I most enjoyed for feeling -- hmmm, shall I saw forward-looking, experimental, interesting and even witty? -- was the areas on the South Bank and most especially along The Cut.

I found Covent Garden boutiquey and almost Disney-ish and I think I have a positive allergy to Notting Hill and the Portobello Market, but I think with respect to the latter, mine is the minority view.

moschops

pm calm down - why get so wound up ??? - but still stand by my comments

pmgoosed

No offense...but I will out myself right now to prove a point. I am co-owner of one of the top 10 restaurants in Boston and I own five restuarants and night clubs in London.

I have lived in an about London for 16 years. I often disguise myself and my travels to gain insight on what I need to do to build new and hip places. Same is true for this message board. Then again...there are many places I havent been (ITALY and GREECE FOR TWO). I never ever give second hand hearsay information. It isnt right to do.

I also have 18 other restaurants throughout Europe and the US.

Because of the field (and my legal career which is seperate from my culinary/nightlife ventures), I often travel solo and as a "secret shopper."

What our friend has stated is false...in fact...I am sure you can get yourself a high class escort...but you can do that anywhere. I HAVE NEVER EVER SEEN ONE LATE NIGHT...and to dissaude our friend LESM from going there...is doing a disservice to her, considering her request. I have a sister I love dearly, just turning 30. IF I WOULD SEND HER THERE, I would also send LESM their.

Locals also may think Boston is dangerous, or NYC is filled with murderers. However, all subjectivity aside...the area I speak of IS SMACK DAB IN THE MIDDLE OF A) One of the most hip areas in the world B) One of the most heavily watched areas of the world (I deal with the local authorities on a monthly phone call) and C) just like any major city.

Plus, LESM isnt picking up hookers....shoot, would you not recommend the HOT meat market area of NY because it used to be/still is an area to p/u hookers and transvestites. NOOOOOO...why...because the hip go to lounges, clubs, and restaurants like the SPICE MARKET.

Please...I am done justifying myself.

LESM...go to that area...you will be pleasantly suprised. It is your choice however.

Either way...ENJOY THE TRIP...you will love LONDON!

pmgoosed

Sorry guys...I just got wound up on this one..

Two lashes for me.

Kate

hmmm well know one's ever going to agree on this subject and London's so vast that numerous parts could be described as 'trendy' depending on your prespective. Never been to Lincoln Park either.

But to throw in my twopenneth, from the prespective of a designer and her designer mates (ie me), we tend to congregate (to work and play, if not live) in the following areas:

1. London Bridge/Borough Market/South Bank area.
2. Farringdon/Clerkenwell. Specifically St John's Street and opposite Smithfield Meat Market.
3. Hoxton/Shoreditch.
4. Charlotte Street (near Oxford Street)
5. Islington (if only cos some of us live there).

'Most' of these areas have a feel close-ish to the lower East Side Manhattan, ie converted warehouses, design studios, great bars and restaurants.

Of course I don't live in any of these areas (missed the boat on buying a loft in Shoreditch by about 6 months). I live in Kilburn, which people have been telling me is 'up and coming' for about 6 years. I don't recommend a visit however.

moschops

well i don't own any bars or night clubs or have a legal background - but i don't think that makes my opinion any less valid - just as these pompous claims make ur opinion any more valid - who cares how many bars or restaurants u have?.
I may only have lived in London 11 years - but again feel that doesn't make my opinion less valid
I am surrounded by Londoners born and bred - straw poll in the office supports my comment
I never said don't visit it....
Are u worried the reputation part of your business empire might be affected ??

CotswoldScouser

Londonengland, Londonlad and Mathieu:

Well, thanks. Flattery will get you anywhere.

moschops and pmwhatever:
This popular folk song from the late 60s should cast light on your squabble:

"It nearly broke her father's heart
When Princess Anne became a tart.
But blood is blood and race is race
And so to save the royal face.
They bought a most exclusive beat
On the Shepherd side of Curzon Street
Where before the sun was set
She worked her way right through Debrett"

Shepherd Market (and PLEASE, if you can't spell it right, at least spell it just one way in a message) has been full of (I'm told high-class) knocking shops since Edward Shepherd built it in 1735.

Though possibly not as high class as the song claims.

Scarlett

Re: Shepherd Market..we stayed at the Washington Hotel in Mayfair and walked across the street to Shepherd Market almost every day.
We ate in a great Indian restaurant, shopped in the nice shops and had a bite at an impossibly expensive Middle Eastern place that I cannot remember the name of , but the row of Rolls Royces along the street waiting for take-out was comical.
I did see the red lights upstairs in some of the flats, I did not see anything resembling a prostitute ( unless she was well dressed and on a day off) ..
It has been a couple of years since I have been to London, but I cannot imagine that area has sunk back to its seedier beginnings..

I would (from my distant memories) think Notting Hill is hippish and trendy-ish..but as for lovely homes, I want to live in Belgravia (lol) or in Hampstead...does that make me hip or naff?

pmgoosed

For the record, the reason I was upset was because of your one line sentence regarding the area...with no background like I and others who have given insight (even different opinions than my own).

If you are going to paint the picture....give full details not some runon about the likes of your "pmgoosed - Shepherds Market is just full of prostitutes and strip clubs..."

I apologize for the spelling errors...my hands were too fast for my own good (as is my tongue sometimes).

Cotswold...know the song well, yet as I stated...that is a bygone era.

Kate...lots of irony in your career (my friend who goes to Slade is a designer/artist and her name is KATE AS WELL....good people have good names!!!!)

And as for my "business" reputation being affected, MOSCHOPS, no, I do not have a place in that area...THOUGH I WOULD KILL FOR A SPACE. The pounds per meter space is highway robbery.

No hard feeling please, I know you have your opinion...I just wished you gave more insight then a definitive statement.

m_kingdom2

Hampstead's very naff, full of people who fancy themselves but are so small-time. Now Belgravia is fabulous on the whole, far grander, it's really for people who are cool already so have no need to go somewhere perceived as trendy.

As for Farringdon, it's a dump, full of these types who like to think they're trendy when they're not. Just the way a well cut suit is always a well cut suit. A sloppy suit isn't a smart, or even desirable one.

pmgoosed

AGreed that Farringdon is a dump...it actually wigged me out the first time I went...but there is no denying, from a night perspective (this is more of an industry perspective) of one particular venue in that area being among the top 5 in the world.

Could someone offer me a bit more demographic info on Belgravia...I am flying in next month for a "research trip." I have to put this on my radar now. I have driven through the year, sadly, however, never stepping out of the vehicle.

And for the record...even as an "italian" descendant, there are no better suits in the world than the British suit. Give me a British suit anyday of the week...and I am a happy man.

pmgoosed

meant to say "driven through the area."

Fast hands again.

inessa0923

I've not read every post on this thread, but skimming it, it seems there are a few things that no one mentioned. Just for reference, I grew up in Chicago, and lived in Lakeview and Evanston before moving to London 2 years ago.

1) Night-time transportation in London is very difficult. In some areas that people consider hip and trendy for nightlife (Soho or Hoxton, for example) after the tubes stop running, it's very very difficult to get a black taxi and illegal cabs are very common (and uninsured, and dangerous). This is something to consider when deciding whether to go to the slightly less hip and trendy pub in Kensington or the uber-trendy bar in Soho.

2) I don't think anyone has mentioned places south of the River. The Borough Market is a foodies delight, and neighborhoods like Clapham and Putney have nice shops and few tourists.

3) London is much much MUCH older than Chicago, and they hate to tear stuff down here. To lots of tourists, it seems dirty and dangerous, but you're much more likely to get shot in Chiago, as big cities go, London is pretty safe. However, you won't find lovely planned clean neighborhoods like Lincoln Park. Really nice areas are very closely mixed with somewhat shady areas. Similar to a Cabrini Green/Oldtown situation in Chicago, but even closer.

4) Unlike Chicago Magazine, Time-Out does not have good restaurant listings and there is no true equivalent of Metromix either. Try squaremeal.com, they seem to have the most complete restaurant listings I've seen.

5) Definitely definitely don't miss the parks, they're lovely.

have a great trip!

pmgoosed

Ahhh...Borough Market (I often stay in a flat at Borough) is one of my favorite all time places to go. Nick's cheeses is among the best shop in the world.

There is also a decent gastropub right next to the market.

Is there anything cooler than than the lively feeling of that market on a warm afternoon.
Good Call Inessa!!!!!

nessundorma

Actually, a couple of mentioned places south of the river.

Regarding prosties, I've seen them in London and one thing that should be said is that there are only a few areas of European cities where being in the vicinity of prostitutes is equivalent of being in a dangerous area, whereas in the US, the opposite is generally the rule.

As for Farringdon -- well, I tend to think anybody who thinks they are hip is kidding themselves no matter where they are, but it's pretty obvious to me that Farringdon is an off-beat place that is developing some cache among a certain set -- not unlike the way the meatpacking district did in NYC -- but unless you hang with that set, it's a pretty uninteresting part of London for a visitor.

Lovejoy

Fascinating discussion here.But what I want to know is where do the Chavs hang out. So as to avoid that part of London.

PatrickLondon

The night bus network has been substantially extended and expanded in the last few years, with at least a half-hourly service on most routes. It's unlikely you could be totally stranded after midnight.

And, CotswoldScouser, the version I know of that rhyme is several decades (at least) older than the 60s. It's quoted in at least one novel set in WW2, about a generic "Lady Jane", to the tune of the naval hymn "For those in peril on the sea", as "on the shady side of Jermyn Street" - but no doubt the attributions wander around London, like sailors in search of the ladies in question.

inessa0923

Yes, I should have mentioned that. There are definitely night buses, and sometimes they are kind of an, um, interesting experience. But I find that people are sometimes a little uncomfortable with buses in a city where they don't have their bearings.

nevcharlie

pmgoosed. The "working girls" of Shepherds Market ply their trade in upstairs flats (apartments) reached by discrete doorways, ususally by appointment, hence you will not be offended by seeing them on the street corners, as in days of yore.

moschops

pmgoosed - OK to say 'its just full etc..' was a bit flippant - i enjoy the area because it is fun and vibrant and there are great bars and restaurants there. But i have on a couple of occaisons been approached by 'working girls' in the pubs there.