High-Speed Train News - Italy, Spain, Holland
Nov 25th, 2008, 10:57 AM
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ITALY MILAN-BOLOGNA
In December, presumably at the start of winter schedules the all-new high-speed rail line between Milan and Bologna will open with an all-new version of the old ETR trains - a pendolino i believe.
Milan- Florence will be slashed to 2 hours, from 2 h 45 currently - it will be only 3.5 hrs Milan-Rome.
When the Bologna-Florence new high-speed line opens next year a bit more time will be shaved off.
NEXT - SPAIN
HOLLAND
In December, presumably at the start of winter schedules the all-new high-speed rail line between Milan and Bologna will open with an all-new version of the old ETR trains - a pendolino i believe.
Milan- Florence will be slashed to 2 hours, from 2 h 45 currently - it will be only 3.5 hrs Milan-Rome.
When the Bologna-Florence new high-speed line opens next year a bit more time will be shaved off.
NEXT - SPAIN
HOLLAND
Nov 25th, 2008, 12:04 PM
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Hello Pal, I knew this was your thread before I opened it up.
Your news will make several of my Italian friends in Italy happy as they have to travel a lot by train for their work. I guess there won't be a faster train between Milan and Venice?
Your news will make several of my Italian friends in Italy happy as they have to travel a lot by train for their work. I guess there won't be a faster train between Milan and Venice?
Nov 25th, 2008, 12:12 PM
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The Dutch are still waiting for their engines (made by Italians!) so it will be end of next year at the earliest I'm afraid. No engines, no high speed trains. Lines are all in place and ready to go though.
Nov 25th, 2008, 12:14 PM
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Hi LoveI - i have heard nothing about any high-speed line actually under construction Venice to Milan - rather perplexing since the area is so populous.
They did put a few Eurostar City (? name) trains on the line last year that are marginally faster because they do not stop as much i think - but same old congested tracks that limit speeds even for conventional trains.
They did put a few Eurostar City (? name) trains on the line last year that are marginally faster because they do not stop as much i think - but same old congested tracks that limit speeds even for conventional trains.
Nov 26th, 2008, 10:43 AM
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hetismij - thanks for that update - weird the all-new high-speed line is finished and has been in Holland for some months now - i saw it at places parallel to the old line - all in place but no trains. Now you explain waiting for engines - end of 2009?
SPAIN - The Pain in Spain is no more on the train - no country really, even the French, in the last decade or so has opened or is planning to open so many high-speed lines:
Malaga-Madrid is finished and open i believe (actually Malaga to part of the older AVe line i believe)
Madrid to Barcelona all done except i think a problematic part inside Barcelona itself where problems have occurred. But yeh supposed to be the fastest in Europe at about 205mph when technical snafus are fully solved.
Barcelona-Perpignan - this line, including a tunnel under the Pyrenees and border will tie in with French TGVs (though the French portion Perpignan to Montpellier is noticeably not anywhere near opening) - potentially thru running TGVs from Paris (and Amsterdam) all the way to Barcelona and Madrid to Seville (though thru running makes little sense except night TGVs perhaps.
Spain also is opening bits of the Madrid to Hendaye line at high-speed, such as around Segovia area and plans for one to Santiago-La Coruna area are progessing.
SPAIN - The Pain in Spain is no more on the train - no country really, even the French, in the last decade or so has opened or is planning to open so many high-speed lines:
Malaga-Madrid is finished and open i believe (actually Malaga to part of the older AVe line i believe)
Madrid to Barcelona all done except i think a problematic part inside Barcelona itself where problems have occurred. But yeh supposed to be the fastest in Europe at about 205mph when technical snafus are fully solved.
Barcelona-Perpignan - this line, including a tunnel under the Pyrenees and border will tie in with French TGVs (though the French portion Perpignan to Montpellier is noticeably not anywhere near opening) - potentially thru running TGVs from Paris (and Amsterdam) all the way to Barcelona and Madrid to Seville (though thru running makes little sense except night TGVs perhaps.
Spain also is opening bits of the Madrid to Hendaye line at high-speed, such as around Segovia area and plans for one to Santiago-La Coruna area are progessing.
Nov 26th, 2008, 12:11 PM
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"Barcelona-Perpignan - this line, including a tunnel under the Pyrenees and border will tie in with French TGVs (though the French portion Perpignan to Montpellier is noticeably not anywhere near opening)" -
It is scheduled to open in 2012.
It is scheduled to open in 2012.
Nov 26th, 2008, 12:58 PM
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You may 
Spain is 3 years behind schedule due to environmental problems : the 5.6 km tunnel between the stations of Sants and la Sagrera would run directly under the Sagrada Familia Church -. Huge uproar among the environmentalists.
Spain is 3 years behind schedule due to environmental problems : the 5.6 km tunnel between the stations of Sants and la Sagrera would run directly under the Sagrada Familia Church -. Huge uproar among the environmentalists.
Dec 2nd, 2008, 12:53 PM
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Switzerland
Though Swiss train times are getting faster mainly because of new tunnels and straighter tracks they are also improving due to more use of Tilting train technology - such as on the Cisalspino ("Chis-alpino"
trains rolling between Italy and Switzerland.
And SBB reports that many new tilting trains will soon be running domestic routes as well. Like the ones on the Zurich/Lucerne - Lugano Gotthard Route - with times between Arth-Goldau and Lugano speeded up by a whopping 15 minutes!
But when the Uber long Gotthard Tunnel is finished in a few years then times will drastically decline on this route (as will the scenery - bucolic Alpine stuff will turn into dark tunnel walls!)
Though Swiss train times are getting faster mainly because of new tunnels and straighter tracks they are also improving due to more use of Tilting train technology - such as on the Cisalspino ("Chis-alpino"
trains rolling between Italy and Switzerland.And SBB reports that many new tilting trains will soon be running domestic routes as well. Like the ones on the Zurich/Lucerne - Lugano Gotthard Route - with times between Arth-Goldau and Lugano speeded up by a whopping 15 minutes!
But when the Uber long Gotthard Tunnel is finished in a few years then times will drastically decline on this route (as will the scenery - bucolic Alpine stuff will turn into dark tunnel walls!)
Dec 3rd, 2008, 01:31 AM
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>though thru running makes little sense except night TGVs perhaps.
Why? Do you think nobody will want to travel from Lyon to Lleida?
>bucolic Alpine stuff will turn into dark tunnel walls
Bad news for tourists, but good news for commuters - which are a big majority among the passengers. My Zürich flatmate had to take the Bernina route every time she visited her family. She said there is hardly anything transportation-wise she would want more than a Bernina base tunnel.
Why? Do you think nobody will want to travel from Lyon to Lleida?
>bucolic Alpine stuff will turn into dark tunnel walls
Bad news for tourists, but good news for commuters - which are a big majority among the passengers. My Zürich flatmate had to take the Bernina route every time she visited her family. She said there is hardly anything transportation-wise she would want more than a Bernina base tunnel.
Dec 3rd, 2008, 06:59 AM
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High Wall
I was talking more about thru TGVs from Amsterdam to Seville, as there would be little need for such a daytime train vs. flying - night maybe.
But yeh there will be i expect cross border TGVs say between Montpellier and Lleida, Zaragoza, etc. - an expansion on the current Talgo trains that go Montpellier-Valencia
Actually i would thould be very little demand for Lyon-Lleida thru train and changing in Barcelona should be a snap - Lyon-Madrid is just too far time-wise to attract many passengers i think.
But at least the new high-speed lines in Spain are the same track gauge as those thruout most of Europe so thru running is possible - may be of more use for freight i think however than passengers
(Currently the tracks in Spain, except the high-speed AVE tracks, are wider than those in France so only the few Talgo trains, which have moveable wheelbases - yeh they crank the wheels further apart or closer at the border. All non-Talgo day and night trains terminate at the borders and thus you must currently almost always get off the French train and bord the waiting (often not always) Spanish train to continue on.
I was talking more about thru TGVs from Amsterdam to Seville, as there would be little need for such a daytime train vs. flying - night maybe.
But yeh there will be i expect cross border TGVs say between Montpellier and Lleida, Zaragoza, etc. - an expansion on the current Talgo trains that go Montpellier-Valencia
Actually i would thould be very little demand for Lyon-Lleida thru train and changing in Barcelona should be a snap - Lyon-Madrid is just too far time-wise to attract many passengers i think.
But at least the new high-speed lines in Spain are the same track gauge as those thruout most of Europe so thru running is possible - may be of more use for freight i think however than passengers
(Currently the tracks in Spain, except the high-speed AVE tracks, are wider than those in France so only the few Talgo trains, which have moveable wheelbases - yeh they crank the wheels further apart or closer at the border. All non-Talgo day and night trains terminate at the borders and thus you must currently almost always get off the French train and bord the waiting (often not always) Spanish train to continue on.
Dec 3rd, 2008, 03:48 PM
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Not so fast, Pal... The Swiss are very unhappy about the delays in bringing in the highspeed trains between the Mittelland and the Geneva region. The first trains of the type ETR 610 (from French supplier Alstrom) are probably (!?!) ready to run by June 2009. They hope that by 2010 all 14 "leaning" Cisalpino-type (Pendolino) trains that have been ordered will be in operation.
Meanwhile they are making do with ETR 470 trains (Cisalpino) and ICN trains (SBB).
The route from Lucerne to Milan will still require a change of trains in Arth-Goldau. Basel-Lucerne-Milan will for the time being be served with ICN trains.
The Swiss are also unhappy about the lax maintenance of the Cisalpino trains done in Italy, too many are breaking down, so much so that Swiss inspectors go over every train formation while the trains are in Switzerland, and there are moves afoot to bring the maintenance into Switzerland (but don't hold your breath).
The new basis tunnel of the Lötschberg has shaved off considerable time on the Bern-Spiez-Milan route, so some things are looking up.
Meanwhile they are making do with ETR 470 trains (Cisalpino) and ICN trains (SBB).
The route from Lucerne to Milan will still require a change of trains in Arth-Goldau. Basel-Lucerne-Milan will for the time being be served with ICN trains.
The Swiss are also unhappy about the lax maintenance of the Cisalpino trains done in Italy, too many are breaking down, so much so that Swiss inspectors go over every train formation while the trains are in Switzerland, and there are moves afoot to bring the maintenance into Switzerland (but don't hold your breath).
The new basis tunnel of the Lötschberg has shaved off considerable time on the Bern-Spiez-Milan route, so some things are looking up.
Dec 4th, 2008, 01:27 AM
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'and thus you must currently almost always get off the French train and bord the waiting (often not always) Spanish train to continue on'.
Only if you take regional trains which are far from convenient any way. You don't have to change trains if you take the Talgo and the Mare Nostrum.
Only if you take regional trains which are far from convenient any way. You don't have to change trains if you take the Talgo and the Mare Nostrum.
Dec 4th, 2008, 03:44 AM
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hetismij says...<i>"The Dutch are still waiting for their engines (made by Italians!) so it will be end of next year at the earliest I'm afraid. No engines, no high speed trains. Lines are all in place and ready to go though."</i>
PalenQ replies...<i>"hetismij - thanks for that update - weird the all-new high-speed line is finished and has been in Holland for some months now - i saw it at places parallel to the old line - all in place but no trains. Now you explain waiting for engines - end of 2009?"</i>
My question is... Since the Thalys already runs high speed from Paris to Brussels, then continues on to Amsterdam at a lower speed (because they didn't have the high speed tracks to run on), why can't the Thalys just use the new high speed tracks that they just installed?
We're planning an October 2009 trip to Amsterdam and France, and were really hoping the high-speed line would be up and running.
Robyn>-
PalenQ replies...<i>"hetismij - thanks for that update - weird the all-new high-speed line is finished and has been in Holland for some months now - i saw it at places parallel to the old line - all in place but no trains. Now you explain waiting for engines - end of 2009?"</i>
My question is... Since the Thalys already runs high speed from Paris to Brussels, then continues on to Amsterdam at a lower speed (because they didn't have the high speed tracks to run on), why can't the Thalys just use the new high speed tracks that they just installed?
We're planning an October 2009 trip to Amsterdam and France, and were really hoping the high-speed line would be up and running.
Robyn
>-
Dec 4th, 2008, 05:09 AM
#18
Sarkozy announced today along with his 26 billion euro plan to boost the economy ($33 billion) that part of it will be to accelerate the construction of 4 high speed train lines, which will be built simultaneously between 2010 and 2014.
Dec 4th, 2008, 05:30 AM
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And when will all my fellow country men and women here in Canada and those south of the border in the US wake up and realize that high-speed train travel could be a viable alternative to gas-guzzling cars and jet fuel pollution here?
Dec 4th, 2008, 06:33 AM
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Robyn - darn good question about why Thalys trains do not now use the new tracks???
Hetismij is i think talking about the Sprinter trains designed to run in Holland and to Antwerp and Brussels i think - no engines yet for those.
Hetismij is i think talking about the Sprinter trains designed to run in Holland and to Antwerp and Brussels i think - no engines yet for those.
