bamburak

Hello,
My wife and I (both early fifties and active) are planning a trip to Spain in mid-September and could use a little help.

We are flying into, and spending a few nights in Madrid (Sept. 15), and will train down to Seville for a few nights. We then would like to rent a car and drive around Andalucia before we head to Barcelona for the last few nights and then return to the US (Sept. 24).

We plan to visit Granada to explore the Alhambra, but are seeking advice on whether to stay in Cordoba, Granada, or another location for the driving portion of the trip. We may visit Cadiz, plan to see Marbella and Malaga, and have heard that Nerja is quite nice.

Which city offers the easiest in and out driving? Which has the best train connection to Barcelona? Although we did see where Iberia has relatively inexpensive flights from Seville to Barelona, we thought Seville was a little too far west to reach the coastal cities and towns noted above.

We plan to see a bullfight during the trip and would like recommendations on where to enjoy the spectacle.

Also, are there any wine festivals in this portion of Spain that you could recommend? We have found a number of festivals in the Rioja region but haven't seen anything in the south.

Your thoughts on the possible cities, tips on driving routes, AND especially recommendations for hotels in any of the cities mentioned would be greatly appreciated.

R&M

Viajero2

Esentially, you are asking how to cover Spain in 9 days and the only valid answer is....not too well. You listed about 10 major cities in Spain, the desire to go to Wine Festivals in La Rioja, Bullfights, and to explore the vast region of Andalucia; if you had three months I would say MAYBE. With only 9 days you need a reality check and to recalibrate your expectations of this trip.

With 9 days I would stay max three cities; Madrid, Seville, Barcelona. In none of these cities you should rent a car, unless it is for a day trip to the outskirts. I would take the AVE train to Seville from Madrid, fly Seville to BCN. A day trip from Seville to explore the Route of the White Towns; Vejer de la Frontera, Arcos de la Frontera, Grazalema, Ronda, back to Seville.

Not sure how to answer your question on hotels if we don't know your budget? Off the bat-- Madrid- Hotel Europa, Seville- La Hosteria del Laurel, Barcelona- Aparthotel Citadines Ramblas (all 3 stars- middle of the road).

bamburak

Thank you Viajero2. We realize that it will be a whirlwind tour. I did miscalculate though, we are actually in Spain from the 15th through the 29th so it does give us a few more days.

With the timeframe and such a varied country, we've tried to tighten the trip to the three cities and the Andalucia area only. The days in the major cities are more for getting acclimated for future return trips. The travel in Andalucia to aid in focusing future trips to that area.

The wine festival question did not mean to imply traveling to Rioja, we were just hoping that some smaller town in Andalucia might have a similar festival during that time of the year.

As for hotels, 3 star or better. We don't usually spend all that much time there, but do find that they are often the best locations or the most convenient to other amenities. Any further thoughts are appreciated.

R&M

CathyM

Exactly how many days do you have alloted for Andalucia?

You arrive in Madrid on Sept 15th but when are you taking the Ave to Madrid? What is the date of your first date you plan to be in Barcelona? How much time do you plan on spending in Madrid and Barcelona versus Andalucia?

Is this your first trip to Spain?

Viajero2

What about Sept 15-18 Madrid (includes day trips to Toledo and Segovia)
Sept 19 AVE Train to Seville
Sept 19-21 Seville
Sept 22-24 Explore Andalucia (Route White Towns, Granada)
Sept 25 Fly to Barcelona from Malaga
Sept 25-29 Barcelona

Sept 22-24 No hotel reservations; on God's Good Humor

john183

I'm not sure if this helps but we did this itinerary in 2006 (kind of the reverse of what you are doing) and had a GREAT time. We had a few more days than you do but I hope this helps. I just did the copy/paste thing from a Word document to here of our pretrip itineray that we sent to family before our trip. We enjoyed the whole trip but Ronda was our favorite. We also enjoyed all our hotels except the Cervantes in Seville. We thought we were getting a new room in the VIP section but actually got a small, dark room in the old section. Hope you have a great time!!!

Spain Itinerary

Oct. 10 Leave Atlanta Delta flight 114 at 8:15 PM
Oct. 11 Arrive Barcelona at 11:05 AM

Oct. 11-12 Raco del Pi Hotel
Carrer del Pi, 7, Barcelona
+34 933 42 61 90
www.hotelracodelpi.com

Oct 13 Overnight train to Granada Leave 9:30 PM arrive 8:57 AM
Renfe T-Hotel berth 41 - 45

Oct. 14-15 Alhambra Palace Hotel
Plaza Arquitecto Garcia de Paredes, 1, Granada
+34 958 22 14 68
www.h-alhambrapalace.es

Oct. 16-18 Rent Avis car in Granada – drive to Ronda
Parador de Ronda
Plaza de Espana, Ronda
+34 952 87 75 00
www.parador.es
click on English
click on the arrow by To Paradors
scroll down and select Ronda
Day trips to Gibraltar and the “white villages”

Oct. 19-20 Drop car off in Seville
Hotel Cervantes
C/ Cervantes, 10, Sevilla
+34 954 90 02 80
www.hotel-cervantes.com

Oct 21 Take AVE train to Cordoba
Store luggage in locker, tour Mezquita
Continue on AVE train to Madrid arrive early afternoon

Oct 21-24 Stay with friends in Madrid
Day trip to Toledo

Oct 25 Leave Madrid Delta flight 109 at 11:25 AM
Arrive Atlanta at 3:05 PM

bamburak

Thank you all.

Yes, Viajero2, our current thinking is much like you have outlined. We will actually land in Madrid early on the 15th so only plan on the nights of the 15th, 16th, and 17th in Madrid. So with three nights in Seville, we should have four full days with a rental car in Andalucia CathyM.

Question: why does everyone discount Madrid and suggest day trips out of the city? We have assumed that we can easily spend three days in the city visiting the architectural sites and museums. Are we incorrect here? Should we plan the day trips to Toledo and/or Segovia? Isn't this too much travel?

Once in Andalucia, we are still looking for advice where to stay as a base for travel to the cities in the area. When we leave Seville, we are considering drving due south to Cadiz and then turning east. Are we better off staying in Granada, Malaga, Marbella?

The Mezquita in Cordoba has been recommended. Being an architect, I do want to visit, but John183's itinerary has them storing their luggage for a few hours in the morning and then continuing to Madrid. Is that enough time for the Mezquita? Shouldn't we plan an entire day in Cordoba?

Thanks again in advance for your comments and advice.

R&M

Viajero2

Bamburak-- Madrid is an absolutely fabulous city which I adore, so please do not think I am dismissing exploring Madrid! Plenty to do to fill 3-4 days. However, for a Spain first timer, it would be a miss not to take at least one day and head out either to Toledo or Segovia (don't try to do both on the same day; it would be foolish). Madrid has AMAZING museums, parks, plazas, stores, streets, markets, restaurants, so go at it! Typically, if spending 3-4 days in a city there comes that third day when you can take a break away; that what day trips are for. Your call.

Cadiz is a great place, but if limited by time head out East thru the mountains; stops in Cordova, on to Ronda, overnight, head out to Granada (overnight). If you can narrow down the date in Granada you may want to make reservations for the Alhambra. I have been to the Alhambra three times, never needed a reservations, walked right in. The fourth time I tried to do this (May 2008) I could not get nowhere near the place. Your call.

john183

I agree with Viajero2 that Madrid is fantastic but so is Toledo and it would be a shame to miss Toledo when you are that close with that many days in Madrid. Also, I have heard you cannot store luggage in the train station anymore in Cordoba. Our schedule only permitted a few hours for the Mezquita but it was worth it. I'm not sure about the rest of Cordoba but the Mezquita is fantastic and worth whatever you have to do to see it in my opinion. However if you have limited time and you have to choose between the Mezquita and the Alhambra, I would choose the Alhambra - and as Viajer02 says, make your reservations in advance if at all possible. A possibility for the Mezquita is to make it a partial day trip from Seville - it is only 45 minutes by train. So much to see and so little time to do it - choices are tough but whatever you choose I am sure you will enjoy.

Revulgo

bamburak, if you are an architect don't miss Madrid:
Barajas airport
www.flickr.com/photos/8230500@N04/2098135602/

Royal Palace
www.flickr.com/photos/xfp/2603210513/

City Hall and Cibeles fountain
www.flickr.com/photos/8230500@N04/2421978978/

Plaza Mayor
http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinm...li/3147435299/

A hotel close to Plaza Mayor
www.flickr.com/photos/xfp/2597596378/

Metropolis Building
www.flickr.com/photos/edgargonzalez/1041697478/

Circulo de Bellas Artes
www.flickr.com/photos/29370923@N04/2833192642/

Modernism at calle Fernando VI
http://www.flickr.com/photos/florent...ez/2197558289/

Casa Meneses near plaza de Santa Ana
www.flickr.com/photos/22302614@N00/249186838/

Warriors and chariots at calle Alcalá:
www.flickr.com/photos/superkitina/3136635102/

Casino de Madrid
www.flickr.com/photos/alejandro5000/2496147273/

Smartness overlooking the Templo de Debod
www.flickr.com/photos/carhove/2410703691/

The National Librery
www.flickr.com/photos/kikepoves/3070269281/

White elephants at calle Alcalá
www.flickr.com/photos/21421210@N04/2299896251/

A vertical garden
www.flickr.com/photos/javier1949/2341142031/

Atocha rail station
www.flickr.com/photos/charliewild/2349122443/

Tiled round corner in calle Goya
www.flickr.com/photos/madridx1306/2870041328/

Leaning towers
www.flickr.com/photos/phototouring/110347585/

The new skyline
www.flickr.com/photos/28113350@N06/3563667051/

The life on stage
www.flickr.com/photos/stavlokratz/640670210/

bamburak

Thank you so much for your insight.

We were thinking that we'd spend the first three nights in Madrid and then travel by AVE directly to Seville to explore that city. Once we are there, we could visit the white towns, Cordoba and Granada from Seville as others suggest but it seems that moving further east to Malaga or Marbella would provide a little easier trip to Granada and Cordoba. We CAN do all the driving out of Seville, but I figured that it would be a larger city and harder to get in and out.

Other options are to go directly from Madrid to Cordoba and Granada as part of the tour agency package and then move to Seville and travel by car a few days, then head to Barcelona. THIS IS ACTUALLY STARTING TO SOUND MUCH EASIER, because once we see Cordoba and Granada, we could explore Seville and then drive to Cadiz, the white towns, etc. as others have suggested and just skip Malaga and Marbella. As for Marbella, we did want to visit a beach along the way. I'm not sure we would spend a night there, but just visit. If, however, it makes more sense to use Marbella or Malaga as a base for driving let us know your thoughts. I've also heard that Nerja is quite nice. Is it worth a visit?

As for hotels, we will be out of the rooms more than in. We would prefer a nice hotel (read clean and quiet), but more importantly ones that are well located in the nicer areas and nearer the sights. Smaller, quaint, places are preferred. I think we would also like a swimming pool at each one so that we could relax and cool off in the evenings if the weather will be extremely hot. There are many selections in each city that are offered by the tour agency, so if you have recommendations, we can check to see if they are included. I will also do an internet search on hotels that we are considering and see other's opinions. This has worked pretty well in Italy and Greece.

Another question. If we allow four days or so in Barcelona, is it worth spending one day driving to the coast to see Cadaques and/or Roses? We want to explore the Gaudi sites in Barcelona, but I'd assume we can do that in two days or so. Another thought is to travel to Valencia to see some of the Calatrava projects. Is this just too ambitious?

Revulgo, thanks so much for the pictures and photostreams. Great stuff!

Thank you again so much for your help.

Viajero2

Cordova is easy from Seville; do not attempt Granada from Seville. Make sure you include Granada once on Eastern Andalucia.

Also, a car in Seville is a liability, rent it from Estacion Santa Just (HERTZ) on your way out of. Driving down to Cordova from Madrid is boring and a waste of time. I strongly reommend AVE to Seville, explore for 2 days, third day move on, meaning get the car, drive on to Cordova/mountains/East. Agree with skipping Malaga and Marbella; Cadiz area has great beaches. An hour South of Cadiz is my favorite in Costa de la Luz called La Barrosa beach. I would stay in Sancti Petri if in La Barrosa neighborhood.

Plan for one day trip out of Barcelona; the architect in you will go nuts in Montserrat, but hey I may be wrong Cadaques if good weather. Gaudi architecture will blow your mind. The first day in BCN get your bearings by taking the Hop-On Hop-Off Bus Tour; do all three loops; pick and choose where you want to go back.

yk

bamburak - last year I was in Spain for 12 days, and visited Madrid (+ day trips to Segovia and Toledo), Barcelona, Granada, Cordoba, and Seville. You can take a look at my trip report:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...rip-report.cfm

Apart from the Gaudi sights in Barcelona, please don't miss the Palau de la Musica Catalana and the Hospital de Sant Pau; both by Domènech i Montaner. I'd say you would need at least 2 full days to see all the Modernisme sights in Barcelona. The Palau can be visited by guided tours only - you need to prebook as they sell out frequently.

As for Cordoba, you can visit the Mezquita in 2 hours or less; so you can definitely do this as a half-day visit. What you can consider: is take the AVE from Madrid to Cordoba (store your luggage at the station); visit Cordoba for a few hours, then continue on the AVE to Seville later in the same day.

CathyM

With the time requirements I'd agree Cordoba would have to be a daytrip. You could easily stop on the way from Madrid to Seville. As for the lockers at the train station: I forgot to check if the luggage lockers were reopened when I was in Cordoba earlier this month but they were not open in March 2008. However, the bus station is directly across the street and they had lockers available. If you wanted to verify I'm sure the tourism office could help. This means you'll arrive in Sevilla late afternoon/early evening and have 2 full days in Sevilla - the minimum in my opionion with no time for daytrips.

If I understand correctly you'll then have 4 days with a rental car and you want to visit: Granada, the white villages, Cadiz, Malaga, Marbella and Nerja. From here you'd go to Barcelona.

I don't see how you can possible visit all these places with 4 days. You could easily spend 2 nights and 3 days in Granada alone. I'd rent a car from Sevilla and spend 2 nights in Ronda (or another white village) using this as a base to explore the white villages and perhaps stopping in Zahara, Arcos, Grazalema along the way. From Ronda I'd drive to Granada ditch the rental car and spend 2 nights in Granada. Then I'd fly from Granada to Barcelona (I checked some random dates in late September and found fares for $72). As much as I love Cadiz I don't think it's worth a detour on this trip. Ditto for Malaga. I can't speak to Marbella or Nerja as I've never visited these places.

You could probably do the white villages in 1 day/night and Granada with 1 day/night then have time to add in Malaga or Cadiz. But it would be extremely rushed, alot of car time and not alot of time to enjoy and relax. You'd "do" the white villages but wouldn't have time to sit outside a cafe overlooking a beautiful vista with a coffee or glass of wine for an hour as this wouldn't fit into your time. You wouldn't have time for a 2 hour lunch with a short siesta before the evening tapeo. For me it's more important to get to know a few places then to just see several.

Maribel

For anyone wanting to make a stop in Córdoba on the train trip down from Madrid to Sevilla-

The luggage lockers are still not available at the Córdoba Renfe station. But they are available at the bus station across the road.
As you enter the bus station from the Plaza de Tres Culturas, they're located to the right, at the very end (look for the "consigna"). I believe each locker costs 3.50 euros. I don't know the dimensions. Yk, or CathyM, do you remember?


So a sightseeing stop in Córdoba when traveling by train from Madrid to Sevilla is still possible IF you're willing to schlep your luggage across the street and if and you pack light.
And preferably if you arrive early, before all the lockers are filled for the day.

But this visit requires 2 separate train tix, Madrid-Córdoba, Córdoba-Sevilla.

From Córdoba's train or bus station if you take a bus (#3) it will only run to the end of Calle San Fernando, where you'd still need to walk a few blocks to the Mezquita. Better still, take a taxi straight to the Judería quarter and the Mezquita.

To walk would take a little under a half hour, I think.

The tourist board has really improved the web site, with a very handy list of monuments and their current opening hours.
http://english.turismodecordoba.org/index2.cfm

yk

Hi Maribel - is it a security concern regarding the luggage lockers at the train station in Cordoba? IIRC, the lockers are present, but roped off.

Regarding the size of the lockers in the bus station - I don't recall the exact dimensions, but my 22" carryon suitcase fits in it.

Rick Steves' guidebook also has good directions on which bus to take and where to get off in his Cordoba section.

annhig

hi bambuak,

i know that a lot of people find the train easier. but given the luggage problems and the freedom that a car gives you [and the FUN!], I think that I would pick up a hire car as you leave Seville, and then drive to Granada via Cordoba, aiming to arrive at Granada early enough to take in the night visit to the alhambra. I just can't say enough good things about walking through the gardens at night, smelling the flowers, and seeing the Nasrid palaces all illuminated. we went on spec but that was Nov '06.

then book a morning slot for the next day, [the time on your ticket is the time at which you may enter the nasrid palaces] which gives you the max time in the alhambra site, including the generalife gardens which were my day-time highlight. when you have had enough, you can catch a bus which goes down into town and right up to the gypsy area of Granada, and walk back [downhill!] into town, enjoying the superb views of the alhambra.

we stayed at the guadelupe hotel and i have recommended it to so many people that I ought to be on commission. big rooms, huge bathroom, quiet, and right opposite the alhambra car park for which you get a discount. you never need to touch your car again because that bus will not only take you down into town but also bring you back up again, for €1 per trip. down in the town don't miss the "pulperia" - a restaurant/bar that sells tapas etc. all based on octopus.

when you leave, there is a lovely drive south that takes you through the sierra navada down to the coast, where there are lots of little beach cafes and restaurants. we liked Malaga, but didn't stay long enough to see the Picasso museum which I'm still cross about.

have a great trip,

regards, ann

PS - we had three nights in Madrid, and never went on any day trips, but if we'd stayed a night longer, we probably would have wanted to. you can get a combined ticket for all three main musuems which isn't much more than the cost of one, and there was something in each of them that we loved.

Maribel

Thanks, yk. It was a security concern because of where those lockers were located-directly above the AVE tracks at the top of the escalator.

bambuak,
I've written a guide to visiting Granada and the Alhambra and how to book your tix using the ServiCaixa site-which now has been improved to make it easier to choose your half hour time band for the Nasrid Palaces. You can download if it you want at
www.maribelsguides.com

And www.exploreseville.com is just an amazing site for learning anything and everything about this magnificent city.

bamburak

Thanks everyone, especially your comments annhig. We are also pretty comfortable with driving in Andalucia, so curent thinking is to rent a car in Seville and see Cadiz and the towns south and west for a day, return to Seville for the night and then head out through the white towns, possibly stay a night in Ronda and proceed to Granada as a base location for day trips to Marbella, Nerja, Malaga, and other coast locations east, etc. Then we fly or overnight train to Barcelona.

We'll probably stop in Cordoba via the train as others have suggested, but once again look to stay the night since we would hate to rush too much. Also, since the stop requires two train tickets, it shouldn't hurt.

Please keep the information and comments coming. Although dauniting, we are really enjoying reading and viewing the information offered by each of you.
R&M

ribeirasacra

I have one observation to make, if you are still wishing to visit a Bodega, (Winery) you may find that at the time of your visit they may well be closed to tourist due to the vendimia (harvest) So check before turning up at one.