WE PURCHASED PASSHOLDER SEAT RESERVATIONS FROM RAILEUROPE FOR THE THALYS TRAIN TO TRAVEL IN JUNE FROM COLOGNE TO PARIS. THE AGENT TOLD US WE COULD JUST BUY THE BENOLUX SEGMENT FOR AROUND $30 WHEN WE GOT TO GERMANY BECAUSE OUR EURAIL SELECTPASS (1ST CLASS) ONLY HAS 3 COUNTRIES - FRANCE,GERMANY & ITALY ON IT. <BR>A DIFFERENT AGENT TOLD US THAT WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO USE OUR SELCTPASS ON THE THALYS & WOULD HAVE TO PURCHASE A SEPARATE TRAIN TICKET FOR $130EACH TO PASS THROUGH BENOLUX.HE SAID THAT THE CONDUCTOR WOULD ASK FOR OUR PASS & TELL US THAT WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO USE THE PASS ON THEIR TRAIN WHEREAS OTHER TRAIN LINES JUST LET YOU BUY A $20-30 SEGMENT TO PASS THROUGH THE ADDITIONAL COUNTRY. <BR>WE HAVE GOTTEN DIFFERENT STORIES ON THIS SITUATION.THEY SUGGESTED THAT WE EXCHANGE OUR SELECTPASS FOR A EURAIL PASS & ADD BENOLUX FOR $60 AS AN ASSOC COUNTRY. WE DON'T WANT TO DO THIS. SUDDENLY THIS 4 HR TRIP FROM COLOGNE TO PARIS IS COSTING TOO MUCH. <BR>IF NO ONE CAN SUGGEST A WAY TO USE OUR PASS TO GO ON THE THALYS TRAIN THEN WE WILL JUST TAKE ANOTHER TRAIN FROM FRANKFURT TO GET TO PARIS. WE WILL BE STAYING IN ST GOAR RIGHT BEFORE GOING TO PARIS. <BR>WE WOULD RATHER TAKE THE THALYS BECAUSE IT IS QUICKER & GETS US INTO PARIS EARLIER. <BR>IF WE HAVE TO RESORT TO TAKING THE FRANKFURT TRAIN ON JUNE 5TH DO YOU THINK WE WOULD NEED SEAT RESERVATIONS OR WOULD WE BE SAFE IN MAKING THEM THERE IN FRANKFURT WHEN WE GET THERE 2 DAYS AHEAD OF TIME? <BR>WE WOULD ALSO HAVE TO RETURN OUR SEAT RESERVATIONS BACK TO RAILEUROPE & HOPE TO GET OUR MONEY BACK FOR 7 TICKETS.WE HAVE 2 FAMILIES GOING. <BR>wE WOULD APPRECIATE ANY ADVICE ON THIS. IT IS OUR FIRST TRIP TO EUROPE & USING THE TRAINS. <BR>BEN, WE WOULD BE VERY INTERESTED IN YOU DISC ON TRAINS. WE ARE LEAVING 2 WEEKS FROM TODAY! <BR>

Take off the caps lock, please. Reading this long post gave me a headache... <BR> <BR>I think the first agent was correct, maybe this site will help- <BR> <BR>http://www.footloosetravel.com/premier_trains.htm

Fodors <BR> <BR>I'm no expert. Still, I'll have a go. Almost anybody is better than RailEurope. <BR> <BR>I expect your plan was St Goar (nice place) 0736, Koblenz 0800 to 0847, Cologne 0949 to 1002, Thalys train with buffet car, Paris Gare du Nord 1405. That's 7 1/2 hours. <BR> <BR>The trip through Frankfurt reads St Goar 0822, Mainz 0933 to 0945, Frankfurt 1014 to 1054, EuroCity train with buffet car, Paris Gare de l'Est 1721. Or St Goar 1222, Mainz 1333 to 1345, Frankfurt 1314 to 1454, EuroCity train with buffet car, Paris Gare de l'Est 2106. That's 9 hours. <BR> <BR>Can you bear to take the train at St Goar at 0629 ? If yes, the connections are: St Goar 0629, Koblenz 0700 to 0715, buffet car train, have an omlette for breakfast while enjoying the Mosel valley, Luxembourg 0921 to 1002, restaurant car train, Metz 1054 to 1059, buffet car train, Paris Gare de l'Est 1350. That is, 7 1/2 hours, and arrival 15 minutes before you planned. Koblenz is a small station, with luggage trolleys, and the change there is easy. I don't know Luxembourg but you've 40 minutes there. The change at Metz is cross-platform. You'd ay or mileage across Luxembourg, but it's not a large Grand Duchy, and you'd not be paying Thalys rates. The nex connection along the Mosel leaves St Goar at 0929 and reaches Paris at 1721, that is, 9 hours. <BR> <BR>June 4 is a public holiday in Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg and France, so I think you should, indeed, book seats wherever you can on the fifth. No need to do so now: when you reach Germany is time enough. <BR> <BR>My note on disc is about night trains. I gladly attach it to the e-mail copy of this message: please tell me if it won't unpack. I'm taking the liberty of adding a note on Paris for pre-teen children, written wholly from experiences of correspondents to the forum. <BR> <BR>Of course, you could all cut a hotel bill and enjoy a night train if you take a compartment from Frankfurt to Paris. <BR> <BR>A stylish and restful way from St Goar to Mainz is the boat: St Goar 1515, Mainz, am Rathaus 2020, supper, Mainz main station 2130 or later Frankfurt 2209 or later. But of course you could leave St Goar later by train. <BR> <BR>Any day the night train has six-berth couchette compartments, which are crowded, and daily except Saturdays it has two-berth second class sleepers, which are a good buy. You'd board at Frankfurt about 2215, leave there 2247, and reach Paris 0659. You'd stumble out a touch bleary-eyed, pile luggage on a trolley, buy the listings magazine Pariscope, in the newsagents, and trundle your luggage (illegally, but nobody stops you) to any brasserie: I like the one that faces the station fence on rue d'Alsace, to the right as you leave the station. There you'd set up a decent breakfast, think about the day, and take a taxi to your hotel. <BR> <BR>Please write, in upper and lower case, if I can help further. <BR> <BR>Welcome to Europe. <BR> <BR>Ben Haines <BR> <BR>

Ben <BR> <BR>You are very definitely an expert!

Ben is the Best!

Ben, thank you so much for the onfo. You certainly are the expert. We will probably take your advice & take the koblenz route at 0629.When you say that we would pay mileage across Luxembourg do you mean that we would have to purchase a train ticket pt to pt across the border for maybe around $30 apiece or more like $100? If its more like $100 then we would probably go the frankfurt route where we wouldn't have a new border to cross. <BR>Your night train info was so much fun to read since we have been trying to picture what these sleepers look like. <BR>We are aLso taking the night train from Paris to La Spezia. Sounds like we paid too much from Raileurope for our T-3 at $180. Oh well. We were afraid to wait to get them there & didn't know what a rip they are. <BR> <BR>Three of us (my husband,myself & daughter) are also taking the night train from VEnice to Munich JUne 13th. We have still not found any sleepers all the way through - just couchettes & we don't want to try them. Let me know if you think we may find a sleeper car for 3 on that route once we get there.Is it possible to find an empty conpartment for just the 3 of us & hope no one else comes along & then pull the seats out just for us or is this impossisble or illegal? <BR>

Dear Ms McKeady, <BR> <BR>Sorry I was vague. Page 36 of the Thomas Cook European Timetable for January says a ticket valid for unlimited travel in Luxembourg for one day costs 160 Luxembourg francs or 4 US dollars. <BR> <BR>The net has a good site for Luxembourg Railways, in French, on http://www.cfl.lu/. If you go into voyageurs rail, then le trafic national then offre national then titre de transport then le billet reseau you find this one-day all-route ticket, just as Thomas Cook says, on <BR>http://www.cfl.lu/f/rail/national/tarif/br.htm/. You could e-mail Luxembourg Rsaulkways now in Englush at [email protected] to ask them how and where you can buy the billet reseau for one day, given your route. <BR> <BR>I think you should print out the billet reseau page, to show to German railway station staff and to Luxembourgish inspectors. Then at St Goar and again at Koblenz you can ask the ticket staff whether they sell that ticket. If not, the Luxembourg railway insoector may sell it to you. If not, you may have to pay that inspector for your 40 kilometers from the German frontier to Luxembourg city at 200 francs or 5 dollars, then buy the 4 dollar one day billet reseau there in Luxembourg station. <BR> <BR>It follows that each person is 9 dollars or 4 dollars. <BR> <BR>I've made this more complex than it is, I'm afraid, because Idon't know the country. If you e-mail Luxembourg Railways they'll brief you properly. <BR> <BR>Anyway, I can promise you ten dollars maximum. <BR> <BR>Table 70 of the Thomas Cook European Timtable shows, as you say, couchettes only on the night journey from Venice Sta Lucia at 2217 to Munich main station at 0633. But things look up on 10 June. Summer service comes in, and that train leaves Venice at 2242 with not only couchettes but also 3-berth second class sleepers, and first class sleepers. <BR>You still come to Munich at 0633, not a good hour. You can add a little sleep if you go to bed in Venice about 2215. <BR> <BR>Yes: you can occupy a compartment, pull out the seats (if you find such a compartment: I'm afraid German Rail are phasing them out), and hope nobody comes. But Italy has train thieves, and it is illegal to keep out of the compartment anybody who wants an empty seat in it. You have no entitlement to the two seats each. In couchettes and sleepers, on the other hand, you lock and chain the compartment door. <BR> <BR>As ever, please write if I can help further. <BR> <BR>Aren't Danna and Betsy nice ? <BR> <BR>Ben Haines <BR>

Ben, <BR>Thank you so, so much for your help.It was incredible to finally get an answer on sleeping arrangements from Venice to Munich. We will hope to reserve the 2nd class sleeper when we get there with the summer schedule available. <BR>I did Email the luxemburg rail people & they promptly replied that the billet Reseau was only good for Lux station to station but that we could purchase a transit ticket in KOblenz that takes us from border to border in Luxembourg.So we will get to Paris from Koblenz as you suggested. <BR>Thanks again for your generous,expert advise.We loved the disc on night trains & teenagers. I was frustrated at one point & wondering if I had made the right choice in not using a travel agent. Now I'm glad I did it all on my own & have learned so much in the process. <BR>We leave in a week for our 1st trip to Europe!! CanT wait..... <BR>Jane

THAT coming from you Ben is a real compliment!