My Mother and I are planning a trip to Europe in Sept/Oct. 2010! This will be the first time for both of us! We initially thought we would only do an escorted bus tour with Insight Vacations because we are worried about getting around, handling luggage, etc..
So we are torn about having the details arranged and everything taken care of with a tour, but not having the flexibility to explore on our own and at our pace! My Mother is 65 and I'm worried about her getting too worn out!
So now we are considering doing an independent vacation and that's where I need help!!
We are thinking of a three week trip and we would really like to see London, Edinburgh, Dublin & Paris! Does that seem reasonable in three weeks?
I would love any all suggestions on where to stay, must sees, etc?
Also would love any thoughts on independent vs. a tour for first timers!!

Thanks!!

<< My Mother is 65 and I'm worried about her getting too worn out >>

She's not ancient, you know. Does your mother have health/mobility problems that would wear her out? If not you'll be surprised at how much she will be able to do - 65 is not on the precipice. There are folks on this board who are in their 70s and 80s and still travel independently.

I (and most folks on this board) would recommend independent travel (even for first timers) for the reason you stated - flexibility to see what you want at your own pace. So this is a good decision. With some research you can definitely do the trip on your own and have a great time (much better than on a tour IMHO).

First - pack light!!! You don't need to bring a lot of clothing. If you tire of wearing the same thing over and over bring some pashminas or scarves to dress up your outfits.

For me, the 4 destinations would be too much in 3 weeks. If you are only going to the cities and not exploring the surrounding area then you could possible do it but part of the beauty of any country is getting out of cities and seeing the surrounding area.

I would limit the trip to London and Edinburgh and some areas in between. Start in Edinburgh, see Glasgow, get a car and explore some highland destinations. Then train to London with perhaps some day trips or overnights to places such as Bath, Salisbury (Stonehenge very near).

Must see sights would be too numerous to mention - there are hundreds of them. Check out some guide books from your library and browse through them. Eyewitness has books full of color photos with brief descriptions. Start there and make a list then get more comprehensive guide books for lodging and historical info.

Yes I think 4 cities in 3 weeks is a reasonable itinerary.

The tour vs independent travel is so really impossible to answer for someone else. I prefer traveling on my own, but I enjoy the planning and researching, and it doesn't scare me to be on my own in a foreign place.

Some people prefer the structure and convenience of a tour group and that outweighs inconveniences (like getting up early or eating at the restaurants they take you to).

What might work for you is a tour, but one of the less structured ones? There are middle-road options that take care of hotel and transportation but leave you on your own for sightseeing, for example.

My mother and I went to Europe together when she was 68. We were gone a month, in which time we saw Amsterdam, Bruges, Paris, and a bunch of Italy, Austria and Switzerland. I even had her "hiking" in the Alps (we walked the paved path between Grindewald and Murren in the company of a herd of cows). We had a rental car for a few days, but most of the time we traveled by train, including one night train. She's a fairly active person, but no athlete. So don't sell your mom short. You can always modify the pace on any given day if she tires.

(It will really help if she works herself up to being able to walk a couple miles while she's still at home, as there is a ton of walking nearly anywhere you go in Europe.)

Four cities in three weeks is a quite reasonable pace, especially compared to a bus tour. You'll have enough time to see a lot without wearing yourselves out. And three of the four places you're considering are English-speaking (although it might sometimes be challenging to understand given accents and different names of things, LOL!) and thus very easy to operate in for a first-time.

That would be <i>Gimmelwald</i> and Murren, or else she really would have had to be an athlete! Sorry.

My Mom had foot surgery, so I think she's as concerned about getting worn out as I am, but I keep telling her she has a year to build up her walking and this is a dream we have both had for so long!!
I was hoping to hear that hitting those four cities would be reasonable, any suggestions on how to split the days between England/Scotland, Ireland & France? I guess if we go solo, we are hoping to not hop hotels too much and take day trips around the areas! We probably will rely on public transportation, we are both directionally challenged and nervous about driving!
I do enjoy the planning process, but I just want this to be the trip of a lifetime for both of us and I don't want to make the wrong decision!

Hi Reese22,
This will be a wonderful trip for both you and your mom. We have just visited Edinburgh, Paris and London in the last month. An average of 5 days in each place sounds great. I haven't been to Dublin so I can't comment.

You definitely don't need or want a car in Paris or London or Edinburgh, the only reason is for day trips out of the city but there are numerous tour companies that do day trips in all of those cities.

The subway system is easy to use in London and Paris and gets you anywhere you want to go quickly. Even if you stay in a B&B just outside Edinburgh on Dalkeith road there is a great bus system we used numerous times daily that takes you right to the Royal Mile. It takes about 10 minutes. There is even a bus that runs from the bottom of the Royal Mile to the top to avoid that uphill hike.

Just a thought on Edinburgh. If you can push the start of your vacation up to the third week of August then you and your mom can attend the Military Tattoo Festival in Edinburgh. We just attended and it was wonderful. Something your mom would probably really enjoy. You will need to order your tickets this November because they sell out quickly. You can check them out at http://www.edinburgh-tattoo.co.uk/

A day trip from Paris to the Loire Valley would be great. Even check on staying overnight in a town with a train station, like Amboise. We really liked it there.

A visit to Kew gardens outside London was a great relaxing day. Very easy to get to on the Tube and just lovely.

Check out whichbudget.com for smaller airlines that fly between all the cities you want to see. You can even take the train from Edinburgh down to London stopping at York on the way for an overnight. York is a lovely town. The train is very reasonable if you book ahead. We spent 30# pp from London to York and then to Edinburgh. This is the site to get you started on train tickets: http://www.seat61.com/UKtravel.htm.

Just make a basic itinerary of the places you want to see in each city and if you don't make it to everything don't worry. It's more important to enjoy the time than to race from place to place just to check it off your list.

Happy planning,
Michele

Michele,
Thank you for all that info! I'm starting to feel more comfortable with the idea of independent travel! I love that getting around with buses, subway and trains is so easy. I live in Cincinnati and that's all foreign here, lol!
5 days in each place is kind of what we were thinking, but I didn't know if that sounded reasonable. I love the idea of B&Bs or smaller, charming hotels or inns. We also would love a castle stay if possible!
Thank you for all the sites, planning ahead will be key!
I've read about the Military Tattoo and have seen that on travel shows and it looks incredible, but I don't think August will work for us, unfortunately!
Did you stay in B&Bs in each location or what type of lodging did you arrange?
Thanks again!

Hi Reese, I have just have a couple of quick comments...

First I agree you can definitely do this on your own and have a better trip for it. You'll have more flexibility to slow down or speed up your pace as needed, take easy days as required, etc.

I haven't been to Edinburgh or Dublin, but I'm not sure they merit equal time with London and Paris. Everyone has different travel styles- I personally think a week each would be ideal for London and Paris. I would consider giving them both 6 nights at least. There are a lot of day trips from both cities to choose from.

Again, I haven't been to Dublin, but from what I've read here it may not have as much to offer as Edinburgh. If it were me, I might fly into Edinburgh and spend a few nights, train to York for a couple of nights, then to London for 6-7 nights with a couple of day trips, then take the Eurostar to Paris for 6-7 nights with day trips, fly home from Paris.

Budget intra-European flights can be great, but they are also be more time consuming and tiring than they may appear at first glance. Keep in mind you have to get out to the airport, then wait in the airport, go through some sort of security, board, fly, pick up your luggage, get into town from the airport. I wouldn't want to do too many of them on a trip.

For accommodation in London, I would look into Priceline and Hotwire. You'll get big chain hotels instead of small, charming inns but there are some great deals to be had.

Hi! Thanks!
We wouldn't want to stay just in Dublin, but do some day trips as well. I would love to do a tour around the ring of Kerry! Ireland is really important to both of us!
I do like the idea of taking the train from Edinburgh and staying in York!
We probably won't do any flights within Europe, I hate flying in general, so the long flight over will be enough for me! I've never been on a train and I think that will be a neat adventure for both of us!
We are hoping to avoid big chains if possible unless they are in charming old buildings! We can't stay in the most expensive hotels, but we are hoping for unique and historic stays!
Thanks for the itinerary advice, trying to figure the logistics is confusing!

Remember visiting chateaus and museums is exhausting so plan one thing a day in Paris and try and plan where to eat as planning can be exhausting. Take a look at www.myweekin.net for ideas and check mobility entrances in Paris some can be very unfriendly and it is good to know ahead if you're required to climb five flights of stairs.

Sounds like a lovely trip!

Use the Multi-City tool on kayak.com for flights. Fly into London and out of Paris (or the other way around).

Thanks for the site info! I want to find the right balance between planning the itinerary and just exploring as we go! That and figuring out which country to start and end with is alot to think about! I have alot of research to do!

Zoecat,

That's what I'm wondering where to fly into and start and end the trip! I thought either London or Paris, but then I read somewhere to start in Scotland and travel south, so I guess I have alot to figure out!
Plus, I always thought it would cost alot more to fly out of a different city, no?

I think deciding in advance not to rent a car is a great decision. You can just plan your itinerary around what can be reached by bus or train or plane (which is almost everywhere!).

You should look into "open jaw" tickets, which means flying into one city and out of your last one. Often they are no more or only a little more expensive, so don't rule that out in advance. Maybe price into London, and out of Paris?

Thanks Suze!
So if we flew into London and out of Paris or vice versa, what would you recommend as to what order to visit Ireland and Scotland from these starting and ending points?

I suspect that more than a few Fodorites are as old or older than your Mum and do perfectly well on independent travel, where you set the schedule and make up the itinerary as to your choices. And in the British Isles at least you have no language problem - well though with some Scots and Irish i have often felt like asking them to 'speak English, please'

www.visitbritain.com has a wealth of info - the British Tourist Board.

Reese,

Dublin and Ireland is a great destination, but is best done as its own trip. It makes your particular trip quite challenging logistically, especially if you don't want intrea-European flights or driving. You COULD get from Dublin to Edinburgh via a train/ferry combo via Belfast, but it would take a lot of your time.

Especially for a first, self-lanned trip, I would suggest something far simpler:

Fly into Edinburgh, stay a few nights, see nearby areas and head south toward London, possibly stopping to stay along the way (York?), staying in London 8-9 nights and take some daytrips (Bath? Oxford? Windsor? Salisbury/Stonehenge? Cambridge?) from London. Train to Paris from London and stay in Paris 8-9 nights. There are aslo many day trip possibilites from Paris (Bruges? Versailles? Normandy? Giverny?). Fly home from Paris.

This is a very simple, easy to plan, and stress-free trip with no driving and no intra-Eurpoean flights (which often have very struict luggage restrictions, BTW)

Sorry Reese, I have never even been to Ireland or Scotland, so can't help you with that part! Just that I have used London/Heathrow as my entry hub for 5 self-planned trips to Europe that worked out nicely (sometimes returning thru Heathrow, one trip flew home from CDG/Paris).

And in the most generalized way, I say all you need is a plane ticket, and a hotel/B&B reservation in each of the cities, and a plan for how you get from one to the next. The rest you can read some guidebooks, and details on this forum, or just plan as you go (by visiting the tourist office or picking up information at your hotel or train stations). Point being, I don't think this trip will be too much for you to plan on your own, exactly as you want it to be!

I would try to fly into Dublin and out of Paris, or vice versa.

There are flights between Dublin and Edinburgh I think via Ryanair or Easyjet (low cost carriers...do a search here for more info as they have very strict luggage restrictions).

Dublin in my opinion doesnt warrant 5 days, but you could do day trips. Ring of Kerry is not a feasible day trip from Dublin and is on the other side of the country. If you want to see that I would fly into Shannon, but then that makes your Edinburgh logistics more complicated as you would need to research if there are flights from Shannon to Edinburgh (check Ryanair).

Edinburgh to London can be done by plane or train. For London to Paris use the Eurostar www.eurostar.com - the sooner you book the cheaper it is and the train goes from city centre to city centre. I think you can book 120 days out.

I would maybe allocate a few more days to London and Paris, as they are bigger places with tonnes to see.

Enjoy your trip!