angelanogaro4313

I know that this is a lot … I am traveling with my 3 teenage daughters this summer to Italy ( Venice, Rome, Amalfi Coast) Sicily (Palermo,Agrigento,Licata Taormina Cefalu) Croatia (Zagreb, Split, Plitvice Lakes) and Greece (Athens , Crete) This will be the first time in Europe for my kids, they are interested in sight seeing and experiencing the culture. My biggest problem is leaving from LAX doesn’t give me a great starting point. I would appreciate any help in organizing an itinerary. We will be staying for around a month early July through beginning of August. I was hoping to end our trip in Greece since we have been invited to stay at an all inclusive resort on Crete for 5 days.

Sassafrass

Of course, you already know that all of those places will probably be hotter than Hades during July to August. With travel times, you will have time to visit only about half of the places you have listed. Places like Rome, Venice and the Amalfi Coast will be very crowded. Now that the obvious is stated, I have been to many of those places in July and enjoyed it a lot. You have to plan for the mid-day heat. Hotels with swimming pools would be good. Do not stay any place for fewer than three or four nights (two or three days) and just plan on a day trip if the base loses appeal. Are there any cooler places which might interest you?

danon

Not sure why you included Croatia for their first visit to Europe.
Zagreb is ok, but not particularly impressive , Split is a good size city , no beach to speak of.
There are more interesting countries and cultures , imo.

One can spend a long time in Rome, Venice and the A coast
depending on your family’s interest… History ? Art? beach time?
I don’t know Sicily .

angelanogaro4313

I do know that unfortunately with school schedules its now or never. I am aware that we will have to suffer through the congestion of Rome but I am hoping to do a day trip to the Amalfi coast see Positano and then just get us to the seaside in Sicily. I am trying to have a 50/50 split between sightseeing and beach time where we eat drink and be merry with the locals.

bilboburgler

I know all 4 basic areas and most of the towns mentioned
Hot
Athens (may be smoggy)
4 big places in 4 weeks.
Rome only really has congestion on the roads and at the main tourist sites. The trams and local trains can be tight but that is easy to avoid by using public transport early and late rather than during the rush hours (my niece always tells me, watch out for "wandering-hans" on the trams, she then goes onto describe the use of the boot down the man's ankle bone), in crowds pickpockets can also be around so be sensible. Given the heat get out and about see things and then go back to a hotel and a swimming pool or the beach.
Venice and the Amalfi will be packed of course, but you know that. If packed is not your thing then just move down one level of tourist site.

Croatia (Zagreb, Split, Plitvice Lakes), I've never been to Zagreb in the summer but a nice little city with some pleasant sights. Split is a beach holiday on a rocky penisula with kids from all over Europe having a holiday, not bad. The lakes are lovely.

Sicily is a storm, prices go sky in the summer, the place is brash and noisy and they are rightly proud of the 7 Unseco sites. There is no point in choosing between them, they are all great, just some of them are harder to get to than others. Getting about.... well there is a train system, the Pullman coach system is better (well more punctual) and used a lot. Car hire (watch out for ZTLs) is ok, but note that roads are often very narrow (narrower than one car soemtimes) so use GPS with added thought and if offered a fatter car than you ordered, decline.

angelanogaro4313

Thank you for your input. What I really need help with is organizing where I start and in what order I see things. My daughter was given the task of researching Croatia and is determined to see it otherwise I might have dropped it. I purchased tickets yesterday from LAX-ROME. Now to figure out if I head south from that point and go Amalfi to Sicily or I head north and go Venice to Croatia. I’m researching all options to get to Greece and travel in between all of these places. How many days would you suggest in Rome.

bilboburgler

can you give exact dates and also a bit more information about what you all really like to do?

Are your returns from ROME (FCO more likely) or have you open jawed?

28 nights? or any other details

Rome is a small ish city and the ancient centre is walkable (assuming you are used to walking) but the environs you may want to visit may include trains etc. My marker for ten is I'd want 4 nights in Rome on my first visit, that allows 1 day for the Vatican and stuff near the Vatican, I'd want 1 day for the main ancient sites and 1 day for galleries and such, but an extra night is certainly easy to use. If you are returning from FCO then I'd leave Rome straight away by train for Amalfi or Venice and use all my Rome time at the end of the trip, but if open jaw then no.

You've probably already picked up the idea of the trains. Timetable on trenitalia and guidance on seat61.com it is worth pointing out that Italian is a very precise language and typing the wrong station into trenitalia will not work (English, especially vernacular English is very "compensating", Italian is not) the red arrow from Rome to Venice is a great way to travel.

My gut feeling says, FCO, Venice, Croatia, Greece, Sicily, Amalfi, Rome is the natural way to work it but until you start to fill in the gaps and get an idea of local cheap airline flight times we will not know. Sicily has at least 2 airports Palermo and Catania either of which could fly into Greece and given covid/ukraine/changes to italian airlines stuff may be changing. skyscanner is normally up to date. Just a point on low cost airlines in Europe. Their baggage allowences are tiny compared to USA and there is no smiling nicely at the staff, they treat large bags as gouging opportunities. So aim sub 20kg but check all the airlines capacities as you book tickets, you may be surprised, there are some special surprises https://www.mybaggage.com/shipping/a...age-allowance/

So the plan needs to build up like that.

Sicily needs 7 nights min
Venice needs 3 nights and that allows you to visit Padua (Padova) as well, it is not enough to really see all the islands of Venice or to try and drag in Verona but it gives you a taster

Zagreb can be just a full day
Athens (depending on smog) is either 3 nights or none

Sassafrass

Realizing time is running short for your planning, try to get a better grip on the itinerary and the whole picture before booking anything else, like plane tickets to Greece, etc.
Good question from Bilboburgler. Did you book RT from Rome, so you have to return there for a flight home? Even if costs were more, a multi-city (into one city and home from another, not two one-way) would be better if you can do that.

Your three stops in Italy need about 12 nights (though I would spend a couple more days and see more of Italy), Athens plus Greece, 7 nights, Croatia, 5-7 nights. If Croatia is a must, then perhaps drop either Greece or Sicily. If you are meeting friends or family in Crete, then it might be fun. If the only reason is a free AI for five days, the cost and time of flights getting there and to whichever is your next place, might mean there is little to nothing saved.

Italy is super easy with great train system. How do you plan to get around in Croatia? Sightseeing in Crete? will you rent a car? Sicily takes a bit more planning, making certain of times, etc. or doing tours unless you are renting a car. You cannot see much of Sicily in less than 7 days.

There is a great TR on Croatia. I will see if I can find it for you.

Bilboburgler suggested one itinerary. IMHO, it is going to be a somewhat convoluted trip, no matter what. Try not to double back to the same place twice. If you are doing RT from Rome, so have to overnight there before your return flight, on arrival, go on to the next place and put all time in Rome at the end.

Check flights from Naples to Greece. It might be even more convoluted, but the airport in Naples is easy to navigate and there are usually flights to Greek islands from there. You might be able to go directly on to Sicily from Rome, spend a week, then catch a flight or overnight ferry to Naples and the AC, a flight to Athens or Crete or Croatia from Naples, etc. Return to Italy via Venice and down to Rome.
Venice has a pretty good beach on the Lido, so stay in Venice for four nights and use one of the days for the other islands and the beach. There are also several beaches near Rome.

If Crete is a must and Croatia is a must, then I would drop Sicily and stick with Italy, Greece and Croatia. Also, even though it will be very crowded and very hot, if you are going to Croatia anyway, include Dubrovnik overnight and boat trips to some of the islands.
This will be a grand trip with many happy memories for your family.

bilboburgler

Sassafrass above is great, there are some outliers on this trip. Scily, Croatia and Greece are more outliers than insiders. Dropping one may be necessary so when planning just keep that in mind because, I travel fast and I see too many places here especially with the heat, with tourists pressure and what I recommend is smaller bags. At some point you will want to just stop and chill/do some washing etc etc or one of you guys will get a cold or sick for a couple of days and when that happens an AirBnB is best because people want home-like environments and washing machines are a nice to have when you are sick.

Catching the train from FCO to Venice after an LA flight might feel uncomfortable but, as long as your luggage is small FCO works well (their luggage management is bad) the train pulls right into the airport, you buy a snack at the station you get onto the train, I think there is a change in town and in total 4:30 hours or so you are in the centre of Venice. But it depends on how people love jet lag etc.

SusanP

You have 12 places listed for 30 days. If you subtract 5 days for Crete, that leaves 11 places in 25 days! You are going to spend most of your time getting from place to place and will have very little time in each place. I hope you like the inside of trains. I think you would be much better off if you eliminated Croatia or Sicily, even though I can understand wanting to go to everything on your list.

It's too bad you're flying into Rome. It's in the middle of the itinerary instead of at one end. Venice would be better. Are you flying home from Crete? If you're flying home from Rome, best to leave your days there for last to avoid a hotel change, since you would need to be there the night before your flight home.

I really hope you have a wonderful trip but don't see that happening with this many places in the length of time available.

Sassafrass

You may be feeling a bit discouraged right now, but I think you can make decisions to help. Departing from LAX is no more of a problem than combining far flung places where flights are pretty much required. That is major.

Are you departing from Rome, so do you have to return there? It would be great if you had multi-city tickets (not two one-way, from and to Lax), but if you have already booked RT and can’t change, then you have to work with that. You need to be in your return city the night before, or even the day before, depending on flights, trains, etc. Normally, I say to push on your first day and put all time in the return city together at the end. However, coming from LAX may leave you too exhausted for that. You have to decide. What time do you arrive in Rome? Will you have a stopover someplace? For how long?
There are several options: depends on your final choice of places to see. It also depends on flight availability. No matter how you slice it up, it is a lot of travel and without checking flights, ferries, etc. I can’t say which is best. I try to always start or end in Venice or Naples so the route is more linear, plus I like the Naples airport, but you work with what you have booked already.
1. Stay in Rome for three nights, then travel on to Venice, Sicily or Naples.
2. Fly directly to Sicily, then fly to Naples and on to Greece.
3. Go directly on to Naples for the first night.
4. Etc.

On a short trip of a week or so, you can go at breakneck speed. You cannot continue that on a longer trip. Don’t push long days of sightseeing. You need to include some leisurely afternoons throughout to continuously re-energize along the way, especially in Summer.

The Amalfi Coast is absolutely beautiful with a lot to see. Please, please do not do it as a day trip from Rome. Some people do a day trip to see Pompeii, and while tough in Summer heat, that is doable. However, a day trip from Rome really is not any way to see the AC. If you are going all that way just to see Positano, then don’t do it. Either stay a few days or save it for when you have time to appreciate it all.

Only one day in Sicily seems to be a beach or seaside day.

When you lay out your trip, do not include travel days as sightseeing days. If travel times seem long, consider taxi time getting from hotel to airport, check in and security, flight time and taxi time from airport to next hotel, etc. It eats up a lot of time, especially with airports outside of cities requiring more time.
Trains are easier because they are usually city center to city center, but that does not work for most of your trip.
Another thing to note. Some inter-European airlines have small, strict weights for luggage, or heavy costs. It adds up.

This is just an Example of laying it out. It is very, very rushed. Nothing I would ever consider because a lot of time and money is being spent in proportion to sightseeing, but it gives you an idea of what you have. I would definitely cut something and add a day to Venice and a day to Rome, for museums or beach days. Can’t tell you what to cut because it is personal. Look carefully at transportation in Croatia and Sicily as you decide. Of course, all travel requires time, but not counting sightseeing travel once you are in your locations, out of 30 days, 10 are travel days getting to locations, 8 are flights. Any major travel days you can cut can be more sightseeing time.

Day 1, depart US (travel)
Day 2, Arrive Rome (travel), relax, rest, dinner, evening walk around center.
Days 3 & 4 Tour Vatican, Rome, etc. really not enough for the beginning of the trip when you have jet lag.
Day 5, Travel (1/2 to 3/4 day) to AC recommend Sorrento on the bay of Naples (not on actual AC, but very pretty) for convenience, hotel with pool (or other town along AC)
Days 6, 7 & 8, Ferry down AC to Positano, Amalfi, etc. Pompeii, possibly Capri. Paestum if you skip Sicily or Athens.
Day 9, travel (most of 1 day) to Naples by train or driver, fly to Sicily
Days 10, 11, 12 & 13, Sicily, Palermo, Cefalu (beach day), Agrigento, Siracusa.
Day 14, travel (3/4 day) to airport city in Sicily, fly to Athens
Day 15, Athens
Day 16, Fly to Crete (travel time?)
Days 17, 18, 19, 20, Crete
Day 21, Fly to Croatia (travel time?)
Days 23, 24 & 25, Croatia
Day 26, Travel (1/2 to most of 1 day) Fly or ferry to Venice
Days 27 & 28, Venice
Day 29, Travel (1/2 day by train) to Rome
Day 30. Fly home (travel)

Sassafrass

Croatia: A photographic trip report in (almost) real time.

travelerjan

KNOwledgeable people have devoted much effort here to help organize something sensible -- so the very least that OP can do is to come back instantly and tell the forum what everyone is asking for urgently --- do you have to return from Rome or do you have "open-jaw" tickets, or are able to obtain Open-jawA? IF so it would somewhat simplify an very ambitious and complicated Wish List...

Sassafrass

Perhaps the OP is looking into tickets, etc. I know sometimes I don’t get back right away for various reasons: illness, change of plans, etc. Sometimes, too, when I have given advice, I get invested and interested and others may not realize that. I will try to do better myself with responses. I always wish we knew how trips turn out.

angelanogaro4313

I booked my flight round trip from Rome. Given that I’m coming out of LA really limited my options and I didn’t want my kids to suffer on an unbearably long flight. I am planning on renting a car in Croatia. Sicily is one of the most important stops on this trip because i just got my italian citizenship and we are planning on going to the town where our births have now been recorded and to possibly find family. I am planning on at least 7 days in Sicily. If this starts to resemble the amazing race i will talk to my kids about scaling back, this is the wish list. I am in the process of researching all the flights to and fro so once i have that info i can figure out the next step.

angelanogaro4313

I think that I will need to spend the night in Rome. The reason that I chose to fly there was that it was the shortest flight. As this comes together i am heeding all of this advice and trimming back. Just researching what are the easiest travel options.

angelanogaro4313

I spent yesterday on a flight back to LA then dealt with work. Sorry real life took president and I didn’t have the chance to reply immediately. I apppreciate all of the time that it has taken everyone to reply to me.

Sassafrass

Very helpful. Amazing to go to where your birth is registered! You will love Sicily. Agrigento is one of the most beautiful and impressive archeological sites I have visited.
I get looking for shortest flight. Though it does complicate things by it being RT, you can work with it.
Important bits. Where specifically is the resort in Crete? Is that for set dates or just whenever you want? How important is it? How important is Athens? Since initially you mentioned only Positano on the AC, do you not at this time have an interest in Naples, Pompeii or the rest of the AC? Are you open to overnight ferry?

angelanogaro4313

We are trying to decide now which destination we are cutting from our list. If I go to Greece I must go to Athens I have family there that I would want to see. I am not sure of the location of the resort. As of right now they will accommodate me whenever I choose to go. It is not incredibly important, I was hoping to end our trip there to relax and hang out on a beach after our travels. I do have interest in Naples, and the rest of AC I was just trying to pare things down. I think an overnight ferry could be sold to my kids as an adventure !!!

angelanogaro4313

After reading all of the advice posted here We have decided to Cut Croatia from our list. I am hoping that will help to make this trip a bit more manageable.
Now onto figuring the rest out.