freddy_camacho

hi....im from asia...and never been to europe....
all that is about to change....

i will be travelling with my family to europe for 22 days (1 july 2012 - 23 july 2012)
i will start off at zurich, travelling around europe will be in a rental car.
(me, my wife and my son are able to drive)

really need suggestion on where is best to visit in that 20 day period.

i was thinking vienna (stay overnight) - venice (stay overnight) - milan - florence - rome (stay 2 nights) - vatican monaco (stay overnight) - andorra - barcelona (stay 2 nights) madrid (stay overnight) then drive up (stay overnight somewhere in france..suggestions?) to paris (stay overnight) - brussels - rotterdam (stay overnight) - asmterdam (stay overnight) stuttgart (stay overnight) - munich (stay overnight) then back to zurich.

was thinking driving roundtrip would take a total of 3 days on the road....
u think i should spend more or less in the above mentioned cities or i should just skip them totally...
or u think i should change my routes...any suggestions is greatly appreciated....

really need help with the planning....thanks....

glenmd

You must really like driving.

lavandula

Travelling will take longer than you think and be less pleasant - consider taking out a few destinations and increasing stays in the big cities. Add more to Vienna and Paris, for instance. Plus if you want to make good time you will be using the major roads (freeways) and you won't see much in the way of sights. I would aim for 7 - 10 destinations. I might add that unless you like modern architecture, Rotterdam is not amazingly attractive to me. But it sounds like you will have a blast - 22 days - terrific!

Lavandula

freddy_camacho

never been to europe..hence needing suggestions badly...
if its too much in that 20 days period...please suggest which city/country i should leave out....

freddy_camacho

@lavandula...thanks for the adivce....ok rotterdam is out then....

PalenQ

marking for later comment

Peter_S_Aus

I think this is an awful lot of driving. Suggest that you omit Spain and Monaco.

And a few other places.

StCirq

Dear God, this is a driving nightmare. Please look at a map of Europe, figure out the scale to show you how far distances are, and try to settle on a reasonable plan.You have 22 days. Go to three places and plan to do a couple of day trips from each.

And don't plan on picking up a car in one country and dropping it off in another - that will cost you a small fortune. So look at trains between the main cities and a car to get you around the country areas of certain countries.

greg

You know you can compute nominal driving time yourself? www.viamichelin.com and maps.google.com are some of the sites.

There are personal differences in what it means to be "too much" driving. The route one says "too much" can be a piece of cake for you. Get nominal objective driving time and combine it with route specific realistic prevailing traffic condition in July by asking others to arrive realistic travel time. Then you have data to determine if this is too much driving for you.

kybourbon

You need to plan two to three nights each city if you want to see anything other than roads. I would pick seven cities max with only 22 days. I would also limit to only two countries or you'll spend too much time on the road.

A car won't be a good idea for many cities as often you aren't allowed to drive in the centers (especially in Italy) and parking is expensive. Picking a car up in one country and dropping in another can be expensive also.

janisj

You plans and driving calculations are both totally, utterly, 100% unrealistic.

Just a few examples:

Driving from Vienna to Venice will take about 7 hours plus any stops/breaks.

Milan >Florence > Rome . . . about 7 hours

Paris > Brussels > Rotterdam . . . about 6 hours

These are the time behind the wheel -- no looking for parking, no sightseeing, no breaks, no meals, Nothing. So "in real life" you will be driving all day long almost every single day. Plus a car is just about useless in every one of those cities.

17+ cities in 20 days!!! Sorry -- but your plan simply is not doable

Michael

Use Google map or any other web based mapping (viaMichelin is another option) and start plugging in destinations. viaMichelin is good in that you can choose a variety of options (fast route, scenic route, no tolls, etc.) and it will give you estimated fuel costs. The time/distance information will perhaps show you how to reduce your itinerary.

easytraveler

St Cirq: <i>Dear God, this is a driving nightmare.</i>

Oh, oh, you've got St Cirq praying for you, that's not a good sign...



Just kidding!

Please heed the good advice being given here, cut down on your destinations and take the train instead of driving. Any number of European trains go over 100 km an hour, which is a lot faster than you can drive, AND the trains will deposit you right in the middle of the big cities, so you don't have to negotiate the nightmare of surface streets to get to your hotel by driving.

By trying to see everything, you'll end up seeing nothing.

Take your first destination: Vienna. You could spend an entire week in Vienna and barely scratch the surface. There are palaces to visit, museums to browse, and local foods to sample. What's being in "Wien" and not having "wienerschnitzel" or passing by the Hotel Sacher and not having "sachertorte"??? And once you've had the sachertorte at the Hotel Sacher, you'll just HAVE to go over to Demel's and try their version of the sachertorte. There was even a sachertorte "war" fought over which establishment has the right to call its cake, the "sachertorte". Did you know that December 5 is National Sachertorte Day? Really, you didn't? ...and we haven't even come to my favorite food in Vienna: gelato, nor my favorite activity: going to a musical event. Vienna is the capital of music - there are operas, concerts ---anyhow, you get the idea. You need to stop and smell the roses in each place you visit, instead of smelling the gas fumes of your car.

Try and read up online on a few of your proposed destinations and decide which places you really want to see. 4 or 5 places will be more than enough for 22 days.

Oh, and travel light - janisj is very good with teaching people how to pack and travel light.

You've come to the right place - lots of good people to help you with your trip.

Have fun planning your trip!

Burke30

Hi Freddy,

I hope you have a great time on your first trip to Europe. As the other posters have suggested, trying to see/drive to all of these cities in the amount of time you have is not realistic. I would suggest picking the 2 countries that interest you the most and focusing on those. For example, Italy and France in 22 days could be very enjoyable. If you are set on seeing as much as possible, consider flying once or twice during your stay and renting a car as you need it within a given country. For example you can fly from Rome to Paris in less than 2 hours and the cost is very reasonable (in some cases cheaper when you factor in gas, tolls, parking, etc.). Parking can get expensive and in many of the major cities you have listed the car will likely be sitting in a garage. Best of luck to you!

Sassafrass

Since you are going so far, I bet you really want to see some of the great things Europe has to offer, not just highways.

StCirq, Janisj, kybourbon, easytraveler, Burke30 and all the rest are absolutely, 100% correct. Please take their advice.
StCirq, Bravo!

jpie

One thing you might want to check into is using a car leasing service like open Europe with Peugeot instead of a straight car rental:

http://www.peugeot-openeurope.com/presentation-926/

It is a minimum 21 day contract. When you rent only 22 days, the price should be about the same as a straight car rental, but the the advantage for you is that it is much cheaper to pick the car up in one place and return it to another city, but it is only around 50 euros instead of sometimes hundreds or Euros with a straight rental car. (there is a slight charge if the pick-up or drop off place is outside France, though not in Geneva. So you might consider landing in instead of Zurich and then driving all over the rest of Europe and then dropping the car in Paris for instance) You also can choose your car-like a diesel that gets much better gas mileage. And you have full insurance and a brand new factory car.

My husband and I are in Europe just finishing a lease with them for the first time and we have been extremely happy with the program. We had a rock chip the windshield and the program arranged to have someone come to our village in France to fix it! Impressive.

Anyway, I know Renault also has a similar program as does Volkswagen, so you might look into the various programs. Here is another one that lists a couple of the programs:

http://www.ttcar.com/uk/index2.php?goto=home_ttcar

Have a good trip. I do agree your trip is a bit ambitious. I would choose 3-4 MUST SEE cities and plan to spend 2 overnights in each and then see what that might leave you with in terms of time to get between them. Since you are making such a long trip from Asia, I would try to pack a lot in-but at least a pace where you might actually get a high quality visit if you can

freddy_camacho

wow...thank guys for the great tips...yah will cut down some cities/countries!

am so glad for the advice! and the viamichellin site is awesome...

as mentioned...i havent plan or paid anything yet..except for the air tickets and rental car (both provided by my company)...so i still do have lots of homework in cutting down some countries/cities.....

hows this...is this doable....? please help....
zurich - vienna - venezia - rome - monaco - nice or cannes - barcelona - paris - amsterdam - zurich
(should i erase monaco/cannes/nice?)

i love this forum! thanks people....

freddy_camacho

i will cut down even more within these few days...so far i have this

zurich - vienna - venezia - rome - barcelona - paris - amsterdam - zurich

easytraveler

It sounds like you will still be driving, in which case, cut out Barcelona and Amsterdam and add in Monaco, etc, since these will be more or less on your way from Rome to Paris, otherwise, it's a lot to be driving Rome-Paris in one stretch.

You are still focused on the mode of transportation and not on what you want to see and do once you are at a destination.

Getting there is one thing, but BEING THERE should be the main focus. What do you plan to do and see in each place? Then you can better budget your time.

freddy_camacho

yah..im still searching on what to do on each of the countries mentioned....

its work in progress...any advice is highly appreciated...
will consider leaving out amsterdam/barcelona....