mendota98

Thank you all for the great suggestions and opinions.

I agree that the school my daughter has picked out does not impart the feel that I would like.

Does anyone know of a school offering language classes and any class pertaining to French fashion anywhere in France?

Thanks again,

==Mike

Michael

Kate_W mentions that there are no <i>parisiens</i> in the summer, which is an exaggeration. After all, restaurants, the public transportation system, other service industries are stilled staffed in the summer. However, it might be true that fashion establishments will be closed for the summer. If high fashion is of primary importance, one should check on its accessibility in that season.

Kate_W

Yes, I am exaggerating. I, for one, have been stuck here for the last two summers working while my entire arrondissement (the 16th) seems to disappear. And yes, there are people staffing public transportation in the summer - but a lot fewer of them: my daily bus (which runs every 5 minutes during most of the year) runs only every 25 minutes in August. And our dry cleaner, two favourite bakeries and neighbourhood restaurant close for all of August. There are fewer outright closures of restaurants and shops in the more tourist-oriented areas of the city. And, of course, there's Paris Plage (a beach in the city - theoretically for Parisiens who can't get away in August but also a tourist attraction).

I don't know of a Paris school that offers a fashion workshop as part of its French program, but I'm sure there is one. However, I expect that it's probably geared toward people who have at least an intermedite level in French. Maybe one thing you could consider with your daughter, if you can afford to send her twice to Paris to summer school, is to tell her that if she studies hard and her programme next summer produces measurable results (e.g. better grades in French in high school the following year), then you'll send her back to Paris for another session with a fashion component.

mariposa85

I would never, ever send a 15 year old to Paris alone. I think even living with a family, 15 is a bit young. I was 14 when I went on a group trip to the Netherlands and I stayed with a family but that was very organised and the family was very strict with us. The alternative accommodation to a family is college dorm type things with virtually no supervision. If I were her mother I'd be questioning WHY exactly she didn't want to stay with a family. What is she planning to get up to?? Even on my supervised trip to the Netherlands where everyone stayed with a family, there was a lot of underage drinking, smoking and other activities going on. Would you be OK with that?

I would just tell her no. I certainly didn't get everything I wanted at 15. I think it's just too young and I'd tell her to wait until college and even then it would probably be better to stay with a family. I have travelled a lot, and I learn way, way more of the language staying with a family than I ever do staying alone or with friends. The classes are OK, but the 'day to day' French is picked up at home, and if you're living alone or with a fellow American you won't get that.

Kate_W

After many too many &quot;homestays&quot; in connection with school trips and similar activities, I can relate to a 14 year-old who says &quot;I don't want to stay with a family&quot;. I can also say that I was able to engage in bad behaviour, if I wanted to, during most homestays as easily as I could have engaged in such behaviour in a dorm environment. And at age 13, I travelled across the country to stay in a residential, dorm-type environment with 12-25 year olds. Some kids were good, some kids were bad. It depends on the kid. Do you have good reason to trust the judgment of your daughter, mendota98? Is there evidence of her making the right decisions in tempting situations? Or is there evidence of her being easily led and making bad decisions when temptation crosses her path?

Have you considered the possibility of you (or another trusted adult) going with her to Paris? Learning doesn't stop at 18: you might both have fun (and learn something), and the incremental cost would not be that significant (2x plane fare and 2x tuition, but shared accommodation).

Dukey

To put it more bluntly, that &quot;education experience&quot; I suspect will consist of nothing more than hanging out on Mom's dime. But the fact that you think it would be great tells me, anyway, that the advice given here has probably already been ignored.

Sorry, but that's my opinion.

LJ

As don (den mother) to a women's residence/dormitory in a high school setting in Italy, I had in my charge an average of 50 young women aged 14-20 each year. They were mostly Americans and Canadians and mostly away from home for the first time.

My advice? Be very specific about the boundaries for your daughter. Be blunt about sex, drugs and alcohol. If you find the thought of her engaging in any or all of the above, inconceivable, either get over it and talk to her about what limits you expect or don't permit her to go.

She will be offered all of the above and, yes, she might well be at home. But in Paris, there is no parental expectation to help her keep her sense of what is permissable but her good grounding and your voice in her head.

The most troubling incidents we ever experienced with our (mostly) wonderful young people were those where the teen said: &quot;my Dad/Mom doesn't care if I...&quot;. Probably the parents DID care very much indeed, they simply had not bothered to be specific!

Sue_xx_yy

Sounds like a glorified summer camp, especially if you read the qualifications for the staff: finished at least 3 years of college (no mention of degree) age 20.5 yrs by July 1st ; able to conduct a course or a sports program (sports?! one needs to go to Paris for a basketball clinic?) and for the Paris program, fluent in English and French - which is good, except there is no mention of any experience necessary in teaching languages.

On the plus side, the instructors are expected to live in dorm and be on hand 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, so sounds like your kid would be supervised at least as much as on those school trips.

No mention of fashion courses.

Of 10 testimonials, exactly 1 mentioned the courses - the rest were more accurately testimonials to Paris and the other students, not the school itself. Noone mentions how much or what they learned.

In short, I think your skepticism about language learning is well founded. Trying to do lessons in a city as distracting as Paris sounds a bit like trying to do work down at the cottage - and we all know how well that turns out!

mendota98

Thank you all for the information and opinions.

We are researching the options that were offered here.

I will post what we decide.

==Mike

Mar2

I too would highly recommend the Oxbridge programs. They are held in both Cambridge, England and Paris and have a large variety of fascinating subjects to pick from. My middle daughter attended the Paris program when she was 15 and loved it. She studied art history and Paris Avante Garde. My younger daughter went to the middle school program at Cambridge when she was 14 and she loved it so much she returned for the high school program when she was 15. We took our daughter to the Paris program and she returned on her own. My youger daughter traveled alone and back with no problems. At both locations the program has people who meet all flights and make sure the kids get to the campus safely. There is supervision and curfews, but they also have the chance to do some exploring on their own. If you can afford it I think these programs are a great way to teach your child to be independent and prepare her for the day she goes to college on her own. Of course, you have to judge whether your daughter is mature enough to handle the responsibility of attending these programs. Teenagers who have never been on their own, even at 17 or 18, might not be ready for the experience. You have to be the judge.

DAX

I had &quot;summer school&quot; in Geneva &amp; Basel as a 17 year old boy. One thing I can say about that time, there's more puritanism in the states even among the teenagers; there was none whatsoever in Europe. I had close relatives living in those cities but chose to live in a catholic dorm instead. There was no supervision whatsoever in these dorms.

I sent my 13 year old daughter to Holland for a coed soccer camp with strict supervision this past summer, but I have questioned myself whether I woud do so when she's 15(she's already had French for a year now). I remember a 16 year old girl(from a respectable upper class family) that I met in Geneva who was in love with a smooth married French businessman (16 was the consenting adult age).
I know I'll have to make the same difficult decision in a few years and
I don't think staying with a family will remove any concern that I have. Well in a way, if we send our young kids to Europe we should be prepared to accept the European values.

degas

&quot;if we send our young kids to Europe we should be prepared to accept the European values.&quot;

What do you consider european values?

DAX

degas: I was trying to say in a subtle way that we may need to drop our hang ups when we let our kids go to a different continent on their own.

Our society is more open to the old protestant/christian values, even the teenagers are more exposed to them. One way to see it is the fact that christian fundamentalism is a lot more prevalent in the US than in any other developed countries. Without saying that it's good or bad, our society standards are significantly influenced by these puritan/christian values, at the very least in the spoken words and censorship.

I was in a business leadership conference(non religious) last week and a couple individuals announced proudly that their favorite book is the bible and nobody laughed! If it were in Europe, people would laugh thinking that it was a joke.

Carrybean

Why is it that American culture/values should be ignored while other cultures/values are to be followed?

degas

&quot;a couple individuals announced proudly that their favorite book is the bible and nobody laughed! If it were in Europe, people would laugh thinking that it was a joke.&quot;

I thought european values implied a willingness to accept views other than your own or is it a willingness to only accept views like your own?

DAX

Carrybean: To make life easier, one should learn to adjust with the local values where one is living, be it in Paris Texas or Paris France. I'm just pointing out a subtle difference in our values not endorsing one over the other universally. It can be said that there’s a lack of religious belief/value in Europe, or there’s too much in the US depending on which perspective, but there is a difference between the two continents.

Degas: I think you did understand that any chuckle wouldn't be a derision to ridicule but, rather, because such a strong reference to the bible in Europe might be perceived as a deliberate joke to bring laughter among the business colleagues. Just like referring to the 72 virgins in heaven might be perceived as making a joke in Europe but not necessarily in the Middle East. IMHO, Europeans are less likely to take religious fundamental concepts from the bible that seriously. LOL, we’re getting way off the original question.

“I thought european values implied a willingness to accept views other than your own or is it a willingness to only accept views like your own? “
I don’t subscribe to the view that Europeans are more open minded than Americans are, at least not if we take into account how many European wars there were historically.

Sue_xx_yy

mendota98, my apologies while I address a detouring from your topic.

DAX, one value I subscribe to is intellectual honesty.

Let us be clear: 'hang-up' (which you used in your first post) is not a neutral word, and certainly not as you used it, in which you said 'hang-ups' should be 'dropped.' You then proceeded to air your opinions about puritan/Christian values, which is all very well, but aside from being irrelevant to the original topic, they are also quite impertinent advice. Some might hold that the whole purpose of having values- be these values those of atheistic rationalism or fundamentalist religion, is that they be not simply dropped as soon as it becomes convenient (or suits the immediate audience) to do so.

What people ought to do or not ought to do is the subject of local laws, which on both sides of the Atlantic pertain to behaviour, not ideology. If you truly want to keep ideology and the political separate, suggest you stop giving unsolicited sermons on ideology, especially cultural relativism.

mikemo

My niece attended the University of Paris and graduated last Spring at age 20.
She is now a first year law student at the University of Pennsylvania.
So, I guess that means she went at age 16.
M

kleeblatt

Just so we all know what European values are:

14 year olds: may officially ride a moped after taking a test.

16 year olds: may officially buy wine and beer as well as cigarettes. This is becoming more and more enforced.

18 year olds: may offically drink hard spirits and drive a car.

20 year olds: legal adults. In Switzerland, men must join the army for 17 weeks.

Sex? Many young girls go to their local doctor for the pill. Condoms is also an accepted form of birth control. Teenagers are informed of sex and its dangers but are not told &quot;just say no&quot;. Many parents allow their 16 - 18 year old children to bring their boy/girlfriends home to spend the night. We don't have a big problem with teenage pregnancy.

Cigarettes? Lots of young people smoke unfortunately. The government is trying its best to alleviate this problem by increasing cigarette prices.

House trashing? Young people really don't do that here because we allow them to go to fests to meet their friends and, if they choose, drink their alcohol.

Church? Fewer and fewer people go to church. The church has lost touch with its congregation. However, children are taught religion at school.

Marriage? Many couples first live together, have a baby and then get married. In that order. Most couples are 25+. Statistics say 1 out of 3 couples divorce.

Retirement? People have to stop work at 65. Many want to stop before reaching retirement age but don't have the finances to do it.

Hope this helps!

JeffreyJ

Interesting issue.

According to Paris-resident Anglophones with whom I've spoken, Paris is not a good place to learn French. Too many folks speak English, and it's an immersion I'd be looking for.

I've been in this position myself...I attended a Swiss boarding school, in my day. If it's an educational experience for which you're looking, I'd say to try to find a similar program in a small town, as I did. Fewer diversions from study, fewer temptations and less potential trouble to get into. I know, I know, if a kid's hellbent on looking for trouble, they'll find it, but it isn't quite so easy to find in a small town.

And I suppose that finding such a program, but away from Paris, would be a good way to gauge her sincerity. If she's serious about making this a learning experience, she'll jump at it. If she's more concerned about an extended semi-vacation in gay Paree on Dad's dime, she'll object strenously.