kappa

Etap hotels is a lower category hotels of Accor Group, maybe just above Formule 1. It can be a great choice for budget travellers but they are also often not centrally located (e.g. I have the impression that there is none in Paris inside "Périphérique&quot, more practical if you have a car. But there are exceptions. The one I stay in Marseill is just off the Vieux-Port, exceptionally central location. It costs about €60 for a room/double use, a high rate for a Etap but that's due to the location.

JeanneB

Nysmom,

Have you created a budget worksheet? Do you have Excel?

If so, create a worksheet with the first column listing each night: 1 through 20. Then create columns for:
nightly hotel
car rental (if relevant)
train/cabs/other transportation
daily allowance (meals, admissions, etc)

Enter known and estimated amounts in euros (this makes it easier as you "shop" around as you do your research).
Total each column, then calculate a grand total. Convert to dollars.
Add airfare.

This will give you a starting budget. My worksheet changes constantly in the planning stages as I insert rates for hotels, etc. It helps me stay within budget....or recognize my budget is inadequate.

StCirq

I think you're probably making a huge mistake with that $600 rail pass. Have you checked to see what point-to-point tickets would cost?

Also, your hotel budget, even at $75.00/night, at the time of year you're going, not to mention the places you've chosen to go, is quite possibly inadequate. Plus, you're going at the absolute peak of high season, which means if you don't already have accommodations booked, you're likely to find all the cheap places gone. Maybe ALL the places gone. You'd really better get those accommodations booked NOW.

janisj

I agree - you should re-compute whether the rail pass makes any sense. You can very likely use half the cost of that Eurail Pass to increase your meagre hotel budget. point-to-point tix - especially in Italy - are usually very reasonable.

But even w/ a much higher budget - it is getting awfully late to be booking for 6 weeks from now.

nysmom

Yes, I am paring down the itinerary. Right now I'm just set on Paris and Rome and possible Florence.

My problem is in order to accomodate two different traveling partners who are not bookending each other, I end up staying about 5 days longer than I would like.

Any suggestion on where to fit in an inexpensive trip to the beach in between Rome Florence and Paris?

I've been planning most of my train trips through eurorail.com. If I'm going point to point train tickets is there a website to do this through.

MomDDTravel

nymom - you could try to go to CT in Italy - and get a room when you get there...have you read any Rick Steves (dare I mention his name on this site? LOL) He does budget travel... and has good information in his books. You might pick up his Europe 2008 book.

zeppole

I'm with St. Cirq on the rail pass. It's a budget waster.

Don't worry about Alitalia.

But do buy travel insurance. You need it. Always.

As for accommodations, if you are unwilling to go truly last minute (i.e., go to the tourist office when you arrive in a town, or use the Red Michelin guide and make a lot of phone calls enroute), then you should look at B&Bs in THE NEXT TOWN OVER in order to get the best deals.

That is to say:

Look in Prato or Pisa as a base for Firenze (Florence).

Look in Mestre or Padova as a base for Venezia.

Try Fregene as a base for Roma, or anyplace outside the center.

Try the very high up arrondisements in Paris (like 20).

Can't help you out on the French Riviera. It might make more sense for you to fly out of Genova airport to Paris. If you want some beach time, try the Italian Riviera. Check out B&Bs in places like Bogliasco, Sori, Recco...

You probably cannot find decent accommdations in Milano within your budget, so don't even try. Just head in the direction of Venezia. I would try to nail down your first night's accommodation, come hell or high water, so you are not wandering around with a suitcase in a jet-lagged daze. Some towns to look in are Peschiera del Garda (stay close to the train station) and Padova.

Unless you are made of steel, you will probably need a/c every place you are going.

zeppole

Oh--i see now you are skipping venice. Good plan.

So when you leave Milano, head straight for Firenze. I think there is a fast train.

uhoh_busted

My school-teacher daughter did a summertime Europe trip with two friends a couple years ago. (She was 27 they were early 30s) They got a deal on Eurail passes traveling as a group, but she said she would NEVER do that again. They were there, however, for six weeks.

I helped her via email, book a hotel with a/c in Nice on venere.com That is a pretty good source for you to research as you try to figure out a budget. They totally enjoyed Nice, but their next stop was Cinque Terre, which they LOVED, even without A/C. Be prepared though for very hot weather. They stayed a a couple of hostels (one very good one in Florence) along the way.

Rick Steves' books are good to have along because they usually also tell you where you can do laundry! Go to the library to check them out to see if you think you'd find one or more useful before you buy them. (Conserve your luggage space!)

Have fun with your planning and do let us help as you get closer.

zeppole

Venere is a great resource. As is Romeby.com

It's true you may not need a/c on the Ligurian coast. But I do think that it's worth looking at towns outside of the Cinque Terre towns but still on the train line for deals and last minute accommodations.

Sori and Bogliasco are pretty, Recco not so much, Bonnasola, Chiavari, Lavagna and even Levanto and Rapallo might have good deals at the last minute.

nysmom

Thanks everyone this is really helpful. I've been checking out other threads and I'm getting more into the weeds of Italy. I'm also getting away from exhausting myself with trying to do 7 big cities at one time. Renting a car w/ GPS is gaining some appeal.

Here some prelim thoughts

Day 0: Travel
Days 1-4: Rome

Day 6-10: Tuscany

Day 11-13: Florence

Day 14-18: Paris

Day 19: Loire Valley (friend's suggestion)

OR

Day 14-15: Loire Valley

Day 16-19 Paris

Day 20: Home

suze

I would not rent a car, I would not buy a train pass. You can get around on point-to-point tickets. And put the money you save towards your hotel rooms. Because you'll need it!

Sassafrass

While your budget is slim and planning is late, I've traveled like that several times and had great times - and never slept on a park bench - yet.

As others have said, forget the rail pass. Distances aren't that far, so point to point in Italy is much cheaper. The money saved will help the rest of your budget.

Car rental is expensive; plus gas, tolls and parking. You can't or probably shouldn't drive in Florence or Rome, so only get a car if/when you are exploring the countryside.

You might have a look at this website: www.couchsurfing.com. It might work for you. Also, there is an organization for women who host fellow travellers. I can't find the web site, but you might investigate that.

Good luck. Have fun.

galaxygrrl200

I would try priceline for hotels. You can go to www.biddingfortravel.com to figure it out. the Bidding for travel people are nice. Post with questions there, and you should be able to get a hotel room at the top of your range. I saw nice paris rooms for $120 in Paris and $100 at the airport and rome and Florence for about $100. This should solve your hotel issue and you get to stay at nicer places. Let me know if you need help.

bratsandbeer

3 of us are going to Prague, Vienna, Budapest, Venice, Florence, Assisi and Rome Sept&Oct - total cost for 24 days is $4500 per person including airfare. We have been to these cities before but our niece wants to see them so we will enjoy it again.

We purchased airline tickets a few months ago at a cheap rate compared to the present prices - not Alitalia. If you buy plane tickets through Alitalia and they are on the verge of bankruptcy or filed bankruptcy you will not be covered for that airline on travel insurance.

For comparison, I listed every possible train fare and it never came up to the price of the Eurorail Pass. It is no longer $600 but closer to $670. You may have to pay extra fees if you have to make reservations on some trains. A 2 country supersaver pass may be cheaper - not sure.

It would seem more reasonable to fly into Paris for a few days and then fly or train to Rome or Milan. I would include Venice and Florence with day trips from those points. I would save the French Riviera when you have more funds and possibly skip Milan but Venice would be a must unless you have been there before.

If you check out b&bs on Fodor's and tripadvisor you can find b&bs and hotels with good reviews and are not expensive. The price depends on how many persons are sharing the room. Read the reviews and find a hotel that looks good & then email the hotel direct and many times you can get cheaper prices than what is listed on the Internet.
www.tripadvisor.com and click on the Eiffel Tower-Trocadero-Invaldes neighborhood. There are many cheap hotels in this area and it is a good location. Grand Hotel Leveque is a very cheap hotel and is a great location - but there are others in the area that may be better in quality for about the same price.

I would say $150 per day not including airfare would be a good start for room, food, transportation within Europe, museum tickets, etc.

suze

Cities are easier generally speaking to get around by train and other public transportation. The countryside takes a bit more planning. If you would stick with only Paris, Florence, Rome for your 20 days, that would be a relatively easy trip to do by the seat of your pants, using the train.

It's when you start adding the French Riviera, Tuscany, Loire Valley, Amalfi coast, etc. that makes things more complicated and expensive.

Personally I'd skip Milan but add Venice, but that's just me. At this late date getting a reasonably priced plane ticket is your first priority.

nysmom

Thanks suze and everyone!

I'm a bit determined to get out of the big city at least once in the 20 days. People here have really talked up Tuscany and my friend mentioned the Loire Valley. Any suggestions on which one is a better option given a limited budget but lots of time?

It might be easier to drive around the Loire Valley than in Italy, I'm not sure. I'm having some luck at venere.com finding acceptable hotel rates.

suze

I know you said you're new to travelling overseas, which in part is why I was recommending a less complicated trip (that plus you haven't made any plans and the trip is next month and you're on a budget -haha).

Going to the train station and buying 2nd class tickets on to the next town/city is easy as can be. Heck you can drink wine on the ride.

Renting a car to drive around the countryside in a foreign country, less so.

bratsandbeer

We were in the Loire Valley last year. We rented a car on the west coast of France and went to Mont St Michel and the beaches of Normandy and then to Loire Valley, Chartres, Vezelay, Auxerre, Guedalon, Fontainebleau and Paris. There is a lot you can do in France but to just go to the Loire Valley without a travel plan to see other things in France doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

Not sure how you would enjoy the Loire Valley without a car. Maybe others can tell you that. We visited the castles for a couple of days and then went on.

I would vote to spend the time in Italy and enjoy Italy - there is much to see and do there plus Paris.

Or fly into Rome and spend 3 days in Rome, 3 days in Florence, 3 days in Venice - fly to Paris and spend the remainder of the days in France - whatever you decide you can't go wrong.

nysmom

Yeah it pretty funny. I'm pretty detail oriented but I don't like to plan ahead...

I'm surprised at the # of people who want to join me on this half-baked vacation...

I'm going to let the person who joining me on the last half of the trip plan for the Paris-etc end and I'm going to focus on Italy. Whatever she comes up with I'll just be along for the ride/drive/flight.