Help choose our next trip: Netherlands/Belgium or more Italy?
May 10th, 2010, 03:26 PM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,034
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Help choose our next trip: Netherlands/Belgium or more Italy?
Hi,
My husband and I (53 and 43) are considering another trip to Europe...just can't seem to get enough. Anyway, we will likely travel in October and have 7 nights on the ground. We love history, architecture and art, good food and wine, active stuff like hiking and biking, and musuems in limited doses (usually pick one or two per trip) plus plenty of "down time" for strolling, reading, cafe sitting, etc...Also are soccer/football/calcio fans and have gone to a couple of matches when that has been an option. We generally mix time in cities with smaller towns/villages, but that is not an absolute. To give an idea from some previous trips, both with and without our teens: Rome/Florence/Tuscany, Wengen/Milan/Limone sul Garda/Venice, Albi/Conques/Castelnaud with Paris, Barcelona/Madrid, Athens/Delphi/Nafplion/Naxos/Santorini, etc....
Top contenders at the moment: Netherlands/Belgium combo of some sort (Amsterdam and Antwerp or Ghent base??? with a daytrip or two or an overnight somewhere else in Netherlands or ....) OR Italy - perhaps a Piemonte/Bologna combo although I am tempted to add in a night or two in Santa Margherita Ligure.
Would welcome "votes," thoughts, ideas, suggestions and recommendations for itinerary, good base(s), daytrips, activities, and/or hotels although I have few thoughts already. We are not budget travelers, but don't want to go super deluxe either - would like to stay under about 250€ per night for this trip although could spluge for something special or happily save for something great that was less.
Thanks in advance!
My husband and I (53 and 43) are considering another trip to Europe...just can't seem to get enough. Anyway, we will likely travel in October and have 7 nights on the ground. We love history, architecture and art, good food and wine, active stuff like hiking and biking, and musuems in limited doses (usually pick one or two per trip) plus plenty of "down time" for strolling, reading, cafe sitting, etc...Also are soccer/football/calcio fans and have gone to a couple of matches when that has been an option. We generally mix time in cities with smaller towns/villages, but that is not an absolute. To give an idea from some previous trips, both with and without our teens: Rome/Florence/Tuscany, Wengen/Milan/Limone sul Garda/Venice, Albi/Conques/Castelnaud with Paris, Barcelona/Madrid, Athens/Delphi/Nafplion/Naxos/Santorini, etc....
Top contenders at the moment: Netherlands/Belgium combo of some sort (Amsterdam and Antwerp or Ghent base??? with a daytrip or two or an overnight somewhere else in Netherlands or ....) OR Italy - perhaps a Piemonte/Bologna combo although I am tempted to add in a night or two in Santa Margherita Ligure.
Would welcome "votes," thoughts, ideas, suggestions and recommendations for itinerary, good base(s), daytrips, activities, and/or hotels although I have few thoughts already. We are not budget travelers, but don't want to go super deluxe either - would like to stay under about 250€ per night for this trip although could spluge for something special or happily save for something great that was less.
Thanks in advance!
May 11th, 2010, 02:17 AM
#2
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,422
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi,
I live in Italy, in Liguria, and the only time I have an urge to go anyplace else is when I think of Belgium, or San Sebastian, Spain.
Both your itineraries are really appealing, so here are some considerations:
You don't say if you are renting a car. You can do your Belgium/Netherlands entirely by train. Without a car in Piemonte, you will be limited.
I would only pick the northern itinerary if you are going before clocks are turned back in Europe -- meaning, you need the longer daylight hours.
The Italian Riviera gets iffy after the first week in October weather-wise.
You could get nothing but rain in either place, but the chances really are a lot higher up north.
If biking in Europe is really grabbing your imagination at the moment, then that to me gives the nod to Belgium/Netherlands.
If you only pick one or two museums per trip, your Italian itinerary gets the nod.
How badly do you want the red wines of Piemonte? Italy gets the nod.
How much do you want Belgian chocolate, waffles, moules frites, jenever and to discover Belgian and Hollandese beer? The food is Beligium is fantastic. I think it's awful in the Netherlands, but you can get around it (and the beer is lovely).
How much would you like something new yet marvelously old World? The cities of the Netherlands/Belgium are really beautiful. (I would base in Antwerp myself, but as bikers you might do better in Gent (or elsehwhere) and limit my visit to Brussels to the Grand Place if you are not museum goers, although the Horta museum and the Magritte museum are unique).
I know you are not budget travelers, your Italian trip would be MUCH cheaper than your Northern Europe trip when it comes to accommodations. In fact, 250e is going to get you a fairly ordinary hotel in Amsterdam.
Finally, your Italian sojourn is a bit rushed for 7 days, unless you can somehow bring yourself to just graze. At your fingertips in Bologna are Parma, Ferrara, Modena, Ravenna. For Piemonte, unless you simply want a few days in Torino (wonderful place), you have the wine and truffle country to tour.
Sorry I can't be more help! In fact, I could make your life worse by pointing out that you can find cheap flights from Brussels or Amsterdam into Bologna or Torino or Pisa, about 90 minutes in the air. However, volcanic ash being what it is, better to stick to an on the ground plan. Since you don't need to book tickets right away, you might watch the ash for a while. It has reached Italian airspace, but less often than more northern airports.
PS: Two last thought: The history of Amsterdam is really a fascinating one, so that might tip the balance. On the other hand, if you are at all crazy about movies, you don't want to miss Torino.
I live in Italy, in Liguria, and the only time I have an urge to go anyplace else is when I think of Belgium, or San Sebastian, Spain.
Both your itineraries are really appealing, so here are some considerations:
You don't say if you are renting a car. You can do your Belgium/Netherlands entirely by train. Without a car in Piemonte, you will be limited.
I would only pick the northern itinerary if you are going before clocks are turned back in Europe -- meaning, you need the longer daylight hours.
The Italian Riviera gets iffy after the first week in October weather-wise.
You could get nothing but rain in either place, but the chances really are a lot higher up north.
If biking in Europe is really grabbing your imagination at the moment, then that to me gives the nod to Belgium/Netherlands.
If you only pick one or two museums per trip, your Italian itinerary gets the nod.
How badly do you want the red wines of Piemonte? Italy gets the nod.
How much do you want Belgian chocolate, waffles, moules frites, jenever and to discover Belgian and Hollandese beer? The food is Beligium is fantastic. I think it's awful in the Netherlands, but you can get around it (and the beer is lovely).
How much would you like something new yet marvelously old World? The cities of the Netherlands/Belgium are really beautiful. (I would base in Antwerp myself, but as bikers you might do better in Gent (or elsehwhere) and limit my visit to Brussels to the Grand Place if you are not museum goers, although the Horta museum and the Magritte museum are unique).
I know you are not budget travelers, your Italian trip would be MUCH cheaper than your Northern Europe trip when it comes to accommodations. In fact, 250e is going to get you a fairly ordinary hotel in Amsterdam.
Finally, your Italian sojourn is a bit rushed for 7 days, unless you can somehow bring yourself to just graze. At your fingertips in Bologna are Parma, Ferrara, Modena, Ravenna. For Piemonte, unless you simply want a few days in Torino (wonderful place), you have the wine and truffle country to tour.
Sorry I can't be more help! In fact, I could make your life worse by pointing out that you can find cheap flights from Brussels or Amsterdam into Bologna or Torino or Pisa, about 90 minutes in the air. However, volcanic ash being what it is, better to stick to an on the ground plan. Since you don't need to book tickets right away, you might watch the ash for a while. It has reached Italian airspace, but less often than more northern airports.
PS: Two last thought: The history of Amsterdam is really a fascinating one, so that might tip the balance. On the other hand, if you are at all crazy about movies, you don't want to miss Torino.
May 11th, 2010, 02:32 AM
#3
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,062
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Fun4all4
I can't speak for Italy (haven't had enough opportunities there yet), but if I were spending your 7 nights in Belgium / Netherlands, I would try to cover the following:
Amsterdam - one day using IloveAmsterdam card
Brussels - one day using hop-on-hop off bus
Bruges - one day walking the old town
Belgian Coast - take time to explore the history of the Atlantic Wall (1 full day to cover the 3 sites), Ieper (1 full day for an historical town walk an excellent Cloth Hall Museum & Mennin Gate evening ceremony),La Roche en Ardenne for a taste of the beautiful scenery & historical towns in the countryside.
You can see more detail if you click on my sign-in name & read the trip reports.
Happy planning, Di
I can't speak for Italy (haven't had enough opportunities there yet), but if I were spending your 7 nights in Belgium / Netherlands, I would try to cover the following:
Amsterdam - one day using IloveAmsterdam card
Brussels - one day using hop-on-hop off bus
Bruges - one day walking the old town
Belgian Coast - take time to explore the history of the Atlantic Wall (1 full day to cover the 3 sites), Ieper (1 full day for an historical town walk an excellent Cloth Hall Museum & Mennin Gate evening ceremony),La Roche en Ardenne for a taste of the beautiful scenery & historical towns in the countryside.
You can see more detail if you click on my sign-in name & read the trip reports.
Happy planning, Di
May 11th, 2010, 06:23 AM
#4
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,351
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Early October often has lovely weather here in the Netherlands. the second half of the month is definitely autumn, and can be lovely, can be windy and or wet. I have enjoyed 21C on my birthday mid October, but also as low as 7C.
The clocks change at the end of October so the evenings aren't too bad, though obviously not as long as in the summer.
You could easily spend your 7 nights just in the Netherlands, but if you want to include Belgium too, then I would try to fly open jaw into one and out of the other. Amsterdam deserves at least three days, if you want to spend time at a slower pace, two if all you want is to tick off museums. The countryside will be lovely at that time of year with the trees beginning to turn colour, not as spectacularly as they do in say New England, but in a gentler but still beautiful way. You could do a trip out to Hoge Veluwe and ride the free white bikes though the national park and visit the Kroller Muller Museum. You may get to see rutting red deer, and wild boar there if you are lucky. Lots of nice small towns and cities to visit too. You could hire bikes and do a nice ride out from Amsterdam, or take the train elsewhere and hire bikes to explore some of the countryside. Hire a car for a day or two and you can travel to the north of the Netherlands, or the south, places which most tourists never visit.
Brugge is the standard place to visit in Belgium, but you may enjoy Antwerp too. You could go there on the way to Brugge.
The clocks change at the end of October so the evenings aren't too bad, though obviously not as long as in the summer.
You could easily spend your 7 nights just in the Netherlands, but if you want to include Belgium too, then I would try to fly open jaw into one and out of the other. Amsterdam deserves at least three days, if you want to spend time at a slower pace, two if all you want is to tick off museums. The countryside will be lovely at that time of year with the trees beginning to turn colour, not as spectacularly as they do in say New England, but in a gentler but still beautiful way. You could do a trip out to Hoge Veluwe and ride the free white bikes though the national park and visit the Kroller Muller Museum. You may get to see rutting red deer, and wild boar there if you are lucky. Lots of nice small towns and cities to visit too. You could hire bikes and do a nice ride out from Amsterdam, or take the train elsewhere and hire bikes to explore some of the countryside. Hire a car for a day or two and you can travel to the north of the Netherlands, or the south, places which most tourists never visit.
Brugge is the standard place to visit in Belgium, but you may enjoy Antwerp too. You could go there on the way to Brugge.
May 11th, 2010, 06:58 AM
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,034
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the helpful and thought-provoking info (I forgot to go back and "tag" the post so worry that some of the regional experts will not see this). Of course, both trips sound amazing so it is hard to choose! And, with all the volcano disruptions (my entire trip to Budapest, Danube river cruise, and Vienna was already cancelled in April), I am a bit nervous about booking Europe again right now, especially with another round of disruptions going on right now. Maybe I will completely punt and go somewhere in the Americas. But, then again, maybe not - I am sort of attached to the idea of a fall Europe trip at the moment.
So, a few comments on the comments....
OK, with only 7 nights and the potentially iffy weather, I think leaving out the Ligurian coast for this trip is a good idea. Perhaps 3 nights in Piemonte (thinking of Acqui Terme) and 4 nights Bologna with daytrips to Ferrara and Ravenna and a stop in Parma for lunch on the way from Piemonte to Bologna?
If we go with the Italy plan, we will definitely rent a car. If we go with NL/Belgium, we will probably not rent a car. It looks like time change not until Oct. 31st this year so we should be ok, but will deal with whatever.
As for budget, yes, we would be willing to spend more for AMS and would expect that to be more than a property in Bologna, for example. On the other hand, we may be able to save a bit on a Belgian property or simply save by not having a rental car. It is loose and flexible, but hopefully the price guide will help keep suggestions within perhaps the 200-325€ range vs. super budget or super luxe.
Biking is not a prime interest or trip goal, just like to do something active. So, it seems that we could either do a one day bike thing in Piemonte or NL/Belgium and be happy.
Yes, the something new is appealing. I think the Northern trip offers a unique opportunity for interesting history (thanks for the suggestions, di! I especially appreciate your info on the Coast and WW1 history - we loved our Normandy visit a few years back)and different cuisine (waffles, beer, jenever, moules). We would be likely to do a few more museums and have more indoorsy options there as well. We don't dislike museums (and I love Dutch painting), just like a variety of things and more or fewer depending on destination. Plus, for Northern, we would not need to rent a car and can take nonstop flights from our US airport (vs. connections for Italy). On the other hand, I LOVE Italy and would welcome the chance to know it better and have a smaller town type of trip. Love the wine and cooking stuff, too. Hmmmm, can't go wrong, that's the good news.
It really helps to think "out loud" and hear others' thoughts. Keep 'em coming.
So, a few comments on the comments....
OK, with only 7 nights and the potentially iffy weather, I think leaving out the Ligurian coast for this trip is a good idea. Perhaps 3 nights in Piemonte (thinking of Acqui Terme) and 4 nights Bologna with daytrips to Ferrara and Ravenna and a stop in Parma for lunch on the way from Piemonte to Bologna?
If we go with the Italy plan, we will definitely rent a car. If we go with NL/Belgium, we will probably not rent a car. It looks like time change not until Oct. 31st this year so we should be ok, but will deal with whatever.
As for budget, yes, we would be willing to spend more for AMS and would expect that to be more than a property in Bologna, for example. On the other hand, we may be able to save a bit on a Belgian property or simply save by not having a rental car. It is loose and flexible, but hopefully the price guide will help keep suggestions within perhaps the 200-325€ range vs. super budget or super luxe.
Biking is not a prime interest or trip goal, just like to do something active. So, it seems that we could either do a one day bike thing in Piemonte or NL/Belgium and be happy.
Yes, the something new is appealing. I think the Northern trip offers a unique opportunity for interesting history (thanks for the suggestions, di! I especially appreciate your info on the Coast and WW1 history - we loved our Normandy visit a few years back)and different cuisine (waffles, beer, jenever, moules). We would be likely to do a few more museums and have more indoorsy options there as well. We don't dislike museums (and I love Dutch painting), just like a variety of things and more or fewer depending on destination. Plus, for Northern, we would not need to rent a car and can take nonstop flights from our US airport (vs. connections for Italy). On the other hand, I LOVE Italy and would welcome the chance to know it better and have a smaller town type of trip. Love the wine and cooking stuff, too. Hmmmm, can't go wrong, that's the good news.
It really helps to think "out loud" and hear others' thoughts. Keep 'em coming.
May 11th, 2010, 07:08 AM
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,034
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks, Hetismij, I was hoping you'd post.... cross-posted. Yes, we would definitely visit Bruges. Just not sure if we should base/overnight there or do as a daytrip. Is Antwerp charming?
As for weather, we are not too concerned - we have been in Europe in October and early November a number of times and have had all sorts of weather. It rarely slows us down; we just wear layers and adjust our activities a bit.
Husband is leaning towards Netherlands/Belgium. However, I don't feel that I have as good a handle on the choices there yet, other than Amsterdam itself. Haarlem, Delft, Ghent, Antwerp, Coast, etc... clearly I need to read some more.
We would fly open jaw Amsterdam/Brussels.
As for weather, we are not too concerned - we have been in Europe in October and early November a number of times and have had all sorts of weather. It rarely slows us down; we just wear layers and adjust our activities a bit.
Husband is leaning towards Netherlands/Belgium. However, I don't feel that I have as good a handle on the choices there yet, other than Amsterdam itself. Haarlem, Delft, Ghent, Antwerp, Coast, etc... clearly I need to read some more.
We would fly open jaw Amsterdam/Brussels.
May 11th, 2010, 09:54 AM
#7
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,422
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not sure what the biking opportunities are Piemonte. You should check before you book with that in mind.
Other small town areas in Piemonte draw me more than Acqui Terme, and before you rule out spending some of your time in Torino, you might want to google up information about it.
Bologna is a terrific city, but with your limited time and love of small towns (and if you intend to keep a car the whole time), I suggest you not make it a base unless you give up the car and do the trip by train. You might instead think about basing with a car near Brisighella, and doing your day trips from that area. You definitely want to see Bologna, but you can do that on a day trip.
This place looks rather sweet to me.
http://www.ilpalazzo.net/inglese/azienda.php
Here is wonderful article about Ferrara:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/200...nvents-holiday
I'm not Hetismij, and people often find things charming that I don't (I wasn't much charmed by Bruges) but I found Antwerp charming for its deeply European feel and the fact it has so much stylish modern life mixed in with its stunning historic architecture. It's a very sophisticated place.
I enjoyed my trip to Den Haag, and there is much more of the Netherlands I think I would enjoy, but I couldn't spend a week there without heading to Belgium for the food alone, and I find Gent charming, although keep asking if there is construction going on because it's been posted here recently that there is, but I don't know much about it.
Again, I would enjoy either trip, but were I heading to Piemonte/Emilia-Romagna, I would want to spend some time in Torino, and probably at a Piemontese agriturismo that served dinner and wine (plus hazlenuts for me! therefore, near Dogliani), and in the Emilia-Romagna I'd base with a car outside Bologna, but inside if I gave up the car.
Other small town areas in Piemonte draw me more than Acqui Terme, and before you rule out spending some of your time in Torino, you might want to google up information about it.
Bologna is a terrific city, but with your limited time and love of small towns (and if you intend to keep a car the whole time), I suggest you not make it a base unless you give up the car and do the trip by train. You might instead think about basing with a car near Brisighella, and doing your day trips from that area. You definitely want to see Bologna, but you can do that on a day trip.
This place looks rather sweet to me.
http://www.ilpalazzo.net/inglese/azienda.php
Here is wonderful article about Ferrara:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/200...nvents-holiday
I'm not Hetismij, and people often find things charming that I don't (I wasn't much charmed by Bruges) but I found Antwerp charming for its deeply European feel and the fact it has so much stylish modern life mixed in with its stunning historic architecture. It's a very sophisticated place.
I enjoyed my trip to Den Haag, and there is much more of the Netherlands I think I would enjoy, but I couldn't spend a week there without heading to Belgium for the food alone, and I find Gent charming, although keep asking if there is construction going on because it's been posted here recently that there is, but I don't know much about it.
Again, I would enjoy either trip, but were I heading to Piemonte/Emilia-Romagna, I would want to spend some time in Torino, and probably at a Piemontese agriturismo that served dinner and wine (plus hazlenuts for me! therefore, near Dogliani), and in the Emilia-Romagna I'd base with a car outside Bologna, but inside if I gave up the car.
May 11th, 2010, 10:56 AM
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,034
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks again, zeppole. I will consider all this in more detail. I think the reason for Acqui Terme was that a friend recommended a place to stay that she loved (and the property has mountain bikes and says they can direct you on suggested rides which I why I thought biking could work). I have also heard great things about Torino and other agriturismos so I'll need to do more research before any final choice. I guess I picked Bologna since it is such an easy rail hub and we do like to be able to walk to/from dinner whenever possible although Ferrara would also work. I have thought about giving up the car for that portion of the trip. Again, something to think more about if we choose Italy.
To jump to the N/B idea...assuming construction in Gent complete (and a recent post suggested it would be), would you consider or suggest basing in Gent over Antwerp for charm, feel, food, and/or location?
To jump to the N/B idea...assuming construction in Gent complete (and a recent post suggested it would be), would you consider or suggest basing in Gent over Antwerp for charm, feel, food, and/or location?
May 11th, 2010, 11:38 AM
#9
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,351
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Zeppole and I don't often agree, but we do on Antwerp and Brugge . I find Brugge too crowded, any time of year, and incredibly twee. Antwerp is a charming, real place. Brugge feels like crowded a film set.
But many many people on Fodors will disagree with us on that.
If you are splitting your time then do give Amsterdam more than the day di2315 suggest. And I wouldn't bother with with IAMsterdam card - you won't get full benefit from it.
You may enjoy Den Haag, you can visit the Mauritshuis, maybe the Escher museum, see the Ridderzaal which is 13th century, and my favourite place the Panorama Mesdag. You can also peer at the Queen's home and work palaces, but you can't visit them.
Leiden and Delft appeal to many Americans too. The Pilgrim fathers lived in Leiden before sailing first from Delfshaven (Rotterdam)on the Speedwell to the UK and on to America.
. I find Brugge too crowded, any time of year, and incredibly twee. Antwerp is a charming, real place. Brugge feels like crowded a film set.But many many people on Fodors will disagree with us on that.
If you are splitting your time then do give Amsterdam more than the day di2315 suggest. And I wouldn't bother with with IAMsterdam card - you won't get full benefit from it.
You may enjoy Den Haag, you can visit the Mauritshuis, maybe the Escher museum, see the Ridderzaal which is 13th century, and my favourite place the Panorama Mesdag. You can also peer at the Queen's home and work palaces, but you can't visit them.
Leiden and Delft appeal to many Americans too. The Pilgrim fathers lived in Leiden before sailing first from Delfshaven (Rotterdam)on the Speedwell to the UK and on to America.
May 11th, 2010, 02:14 PM
#10
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,422
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It may be true that hetismij and I often disagree, but we also agree that Amsterdam is a beautiful, friendly, easy to be in city and that the Panorama Mesdag is a delight. (However, I am constitutionally opposed to royalty in all its manifestions. 
Hard to choose between Gent and Antwerp for a base in terms of charm. My brief impressions of Gent (all favorable) that it was half delightful historic city and half university town, and it was a nice mix that made for cheap eats, an open vibe, a nice youth scene. Antwerp has commercial bustle and sophistication without being abrasive -- and it's got a club scene. But it also has historic depth and a whole range of fantastic food, including destination restaurants. I visited the two places on two different trips, coming from different directions, so I don't know which would make the better base in terms of rail connections.
Bologna IS an easy rail hub. It's just not a great driving town (neither is Ferrara). So if you don't keep a car in Emilia-Romagna, Bologna is a great base.
Other people know more about biking opportunities in Piemonte than I do. I just saw LOTS of steep hills and not a lot of shoulder space on the roads in the parts of it I have visited.
Hard to choose between Gent and Antwerp for a base in terms of charm. My brief impressions of Gent (all favorable) that it was half delightful historic city and half university town, and it was a nice mix that made for cheap eats, an open vibe, a nice youth scene. Antwerp has commercial bustle and sophistication without being abrasive -- and it's got a club scene. But it also has historic depth and a whole range of fantastic food, including destination restaurants. I visited the two places on two different trips, coming from different directions, so I don't know which would make the better base in terms of rail connections.
Bologna IS an easy rail hub. It's just not a great driving town (neither is Ferrara). So if you don't keep a car in Emilia-Romagna, Bologna is a great base.
Other people know more about biking opportunities in Piemonte than I do. I just saw LOTS of steep hills and not a lot of shoulder space on the roads in the parts of it I have visited.
Thread
Original Poster
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Philip
Europe
17
Mar 19th, 2008 04:09 PM
