Help:Cats In-Cabin Issue (Air Canada)

Old Oct 5th, 2005, 03:57 AM
  #21  
 
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"...will no longer allow pets in-cabin". Excellent news! I open a bottle of champagne tonight. Let's hope that all airlines will follow this example. These animals are worse than a pest for allergic persons.
I really don't care how people don't bring them from one place to the other. Send them by mail or let them swin over the ocean.
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Old Oct 5th, 2005, 04:36 AM
  #22  
 
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The whole thing is ridiculous. You should sedate your cats before travel, anyway so that they don't get stressed out. Let them sleep though the trip. It is hard to sleep standing up.

And I don't know where you get the idea that Air Canada is the only nonstop carrier. There is British Air, British Midland and many discount carriers like Zoom. Mosy airliines only require that the carrier fit under the seat. Most pet stores sells carriers specifically for this purpose.

Yet another reason to hate Air Canada. As if we needed another one.

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Old Oct 5th, 2005, 04:43 AM
  #23  
 
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Of note is that the effect of sedatives increases at altitude. I for one would not sedate my pet for air travel as I prefer that they arrive alive. A pet should feel comfortable and safe in their carrier. If their carrier stesses them out then they need additional carrier training before travel.
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Old Oct 5th, 2005, 05:47 AM
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I checked into flying with my cat once, and my vet told me never to sedate a pet before flying. The effects of the altitutde and the medication could potentially be very harmful to the pet.

Tracy
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Old Oct 5th, 2005, 06:46 AM
  #25  
 
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I think an animal would be more comfortable in a bigger, solid, crate in the hold. We're not talking chucked on a pile of suitcases here. They are not in the normal baggage hold as that is unpressurised. They are in a special pressurised section and I'm sure it is less stressful to be somewhere quiet and uncramped, where they can eat, drink and pee in peace, than stuffed under a seat listening to all the noise and activity, unable to move,sleep or really relax.
I guess the owners think the cat will be comforted by their presence. I think it is more the case that the owners need the comfort of the animal's presence and are not really considering their needs as animals instead of 'little people'. Your cat won't particularly fret at being separated from you for a few hours.

And I speak as a cat owner who takes good care of my animals and I love them, but I don't forget they are animals not humans and their needs are different to ours.
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Old Oct 5th, 2005, 07:33 AM
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The entire inside of the fuselage "tube" (passenger, cargo, and baggage compartments) is heated, cooled, and pressurized by the same systems. Animals in a baggage hold breathe air from the same source as the passengers do.

The atmosphere in an airplane is not recirculated; it is continuously replaced by fresh air from outside that has been compressed (and heated) by the engines.

Responsible pet owners respectful of the rights of others will put their precious darlings in the hold. Doing so won't hurt them, and it will obviate many of the allergy problems alluded to above.
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Old Oct 5th, 2005, 09:22 AM
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My friend is a cat breeder. When a woman arrived in cargo to pick up the two cats she had ordered, the cats were both frozen solid! THAT would be my biggest fear-trusting the boobs who load the plane to place my cats in the proper area. The poor creatures had lost their claws from trying to claw their way out of the cages as they started freezing. I don't blame you one bit for your concern.
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Old Oct 5th, 2005, 10:11 AM
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I don't believe a word of it.

If it were true (or even <i>possible</i, then anything liquid in our luggage that wasn't loaded in the &quot;proper area&quot; (whatever <u>that</u> means) would arrive frozen, and every glass container cracked. I worked for airlines for 13 years and never heard of any such thing.
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Old Oct 5th, 2005, 11:14 AM
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Agreed, complete &quot;urban myth&quot;. I have transported wine, forgotten bottles of water and other stuff in my checked luggage and nothing was frozen. If this person was flying into the Antarctic Scott Station I would believe it, otherwise its a joke.
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Old Oct 5th, 2005, 11:14 AM
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Really Robespierre? Have you never opened your luggage to find it cold to the touch? The bigger problem seems to be heat stroke. In any case, all you have to do is &quot;google&quot; it to find others who have met the same fate. In fact, it became such a problem that the airlines were finally forced to report dead, injured and lost animals to the public. I went to this web site and found the latest report dated Oct 2005 stated that in August 2005, 4 animals died 4 were injured and one was lost. It tells you which airline was the culprit.

http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/reports/atcr05.htm

Here are a few other websites that discuss the safety of animals in flight.

http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=452537

http://www.msu.edu/~silvar/airplane.htm

&quot;Their paws are often bloodied, and their teeth chipped and broken, in their frantic attempts to break out of their shipping crates to escape the infernal heat. In the very worst cases, they freeze to death on icy tarmacs, or overheat and suffocate in stifling cargo holds. &quot;

http://www.authorsden.com/visit/view...0&amp;id=18499

This is a website for a company that just transports animals. Although I haven't perused the site, I think this is a US company and therefore will not help the OP.

http://www.flypets.com/

By &quot;proper area&quot;, I was referring to the area in the belly of the jet that is supposed to be pressurized and climate controlled. Sorry my terminology offended you so.
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Old Oct 5th, 2005, 11:30 AM
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I think that flypets.com was used by someone on the bonjourparis.com web site last year to transport her cats from Australia to France. All went quite well, and she was pleased.
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Old Oct 5th, 2005, 11:43 AM
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I'm not an expert on this subject but I too have heard the stories that wantagig is referring to. A friend of mine was going to (she decided against it) take her dog on vacation with her, and fly the dog in the cargo area. The airline had very strict regulations on when the dog could fly, basically based on outdoor temperatures. I believe it had to be between forty and eighty degrees out or the pet isn't allowed to fly, or something along those lines. I'm assuming this is because it could get too hot/cold in the cargo hold, potentially hurting or even killing the pet.

Tracy
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Old Oct 5th, 2005, 11:50 AM
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Your terminology didn't offend me. It's just incorrect. There is no &quot;area in the belly of the jet that is supposed to be pressurized and climate controlled&quot; - it's all that way. As I said, the entire fuselage is heated, cooled, and pressurized with the same air as the passengers are.

Evidently customer service has declined further than I ever suspected since I last worked for An Airline in 1979.

But please note that these animals aren't dying of cold or lack of oxygen at altitude. They're being neglected to death while the airplane is on the ground. Often outside the airplane.

For a flight from the UK to Toronto on October 10, the risk of hyperthermia seems acceptably low.
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Old Oct 5th, 2005, 12:57 PM
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&quot;I checked into flying with my cat once, and my vet told me never to sedate a pet before flying. The effects of the altitutde and the medication could potentially be very harmful to the pet.&quot;

The fact is that you are wrong. The advice to refrain from sedating cats only applies when they are traveling in unpressurized cargo spaces.

If they are under the seat in front off you, there is likely no problem whatever. There are known cases of sedated animals dying in the cabin, but it is rare. I'd be willing to bet that they are old or ill to begin with. I might cut doseage back a bit to be on the safe side if if makes you nervous.

Lastly, you should always try out the sedative before you fly. Some have a paradoxical effect and cause the cat to become excited.
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Old Oct 5th, 2005, 01:06 PM
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My vet told me not to sedate my cat when we flew from Heathrow to Chicago. She was aware that the cat was travelling with me in the cabin but advised against any form of sedative. Maybe these vets have all got it wrong then?
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Old Oct 5th, 2005, 01:10 PM
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metellus, I was just posting what my veterinarian told me when I asked about flying with my cats. He strongly advised me against it. So no, actually I would not be wrong, the vet would. And as I mentioned above, I am not an expert on the topic, just posting my own experiences.

Tracy
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Old Oct 5th, 2005, 01:16 PM
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Show me an &quot;unpressurized cargo space&quot; and I'll show you an Ilyushin airliner that should have been scrapped 20 years ago. Some of them flew at 15,000 feet without any pressurization <i>at all</i>.

But think about it: would it be easier to maintain an airtight construction if the whole tube were pressurized, or if this compartment but not that, etc. were hermetic? All modern airliners are sealed tubes divided into compartments by floors and bulkheads that aren't designed to contain air. It's all one space - by design - and the structures even have holes in them for the express purpose of relieving differential pressure between compartments.
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Old Oct 5th, 2005, 01:29 PM
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I've flown several times with my cat when moving or going home for holidays. My vets have always advised against sedating animals, and even airline websites say it isn't recommended regardless of whether the animal is travelling in the cabin or cargo area.

Someone also mentioned that animals in the cargo area can eat and drink in peace. No matter where an animal is located on a plane, food and water are not allowed.

While I understand the concern of alergy sufferers, I will never check a pet in cargo. I did this once with my cat, and at my destination he was safely in the luggage area, but on the floor amongst tons of luggage, and anyone could have walked off with him or let him out of his carrier. Iíve also been on a plane thatís been waiting to take off, and been called back because someone spotted a dog carrier left outside.
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Old Oct 5th, 2005, 03:09 PM
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I hate cats, they are the largest single killer of small mammals and reptiles in Australia. If an airline plonked a passenger down next to me with a cat in a cage I would complain bitterly, there is enough to deal with on a long flight without having to be subjected to the aroma of cat urine ! Good move by airlines to prevent ANY animals from travelling in the PASSENGER section of an aircraft.
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Old Oct 5th, 2005, 03:20 PM
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Robespierre:

&lt;&lt;&lt;Show me an &quot;unpressurized cargo space&quot; and I'll show you an Ilyushin airliner that should have been scrapped 20 years ago. Some of them flew at 15,000 feet without any pressurization at all.&gt;&gt;


Nathan Winograd wrote a very interesting report commissioned by the San Fransisco SPCA entitled &quot;Animals as Airline Cargo&quot; which I found in a PDF file on the web through google. Mr. Winograd's 25 page report begins with a story about a dog in 1998. The cargo hold in this case was neither air-conditioned or ventilated. Upon arrival, the dogs paws were raw and bloody and he had to be euthanized the next day. The writer asks &quot;Has air transport of animals improved in the last 10 years?&quot; (The report is from 1998) He then writes about how a 1973 congressional hearing found that &quot;there was a lack of ventilation and temperature control&quot; in cargo compartments. Quoting from the report,

&quot;Testimony from the FAA demonstrated temperature ranges in the cargo hold from 0 degrees to 104 degrees in a single flight. The FAA further admitted that oxygen content is not being supplemented in the cargo compartment where animals are shipped and that if 'there are a lot of animals in the compartment, they will soon deplete the oxygen'. &quot;

The report goes on to state that &quot;despite the change in federal law, well into the 1990's, the major causes of animal mortality and injury have not changed-suffocation and heat prostration as a result of temperature extremes and lack of sufficient ventilation.

The report states &quot;In 1992 Mc Donnell Douglas noted that during part of every flight, there will be no ventilation in a class D compartment. Also class D holds lack temperature control which can easily result in temperature extremes inside the cargo hold.&quot;

I haven't finished the whole report, but I'm still not convinced that the cargo area is ALWAYS temperature controlled and ventilated as you insist. I hope things have changed since this report was written.


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