Hello Anglophiles!

Old Jan 25th, 2005, 02:31 PM
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Hello Anglophiles!

Has anyone lived in or spent a good amount of time in England? My husband and are seriously thinking of retiring there someday and would love some feedback regarding what it's actually like on a long- term basis. Visiting and living there are obviously going to be fairly different experiances. I was a little upset when reading on an expat website someone's observation that the British aren't as fond of American's as we are of them. Has anyone found this to be true? {yes, I'm a bit sensitive about those things]. Would love to hear both positive and negitive experiances. Thanks!
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Old Jan 25th, 2005, 03:51 PM
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Our best friends, who were born and raised in England, but lived and worked in the US all their adult lives, went back to England to retire. It made perfect sense...that was always home and they both have plenty of family there. He had worked for a small but high-end hotel company based in Boston, ending his career in their corporate office as one of the top 5 officers. He made excellent money, they were careful spenders, and had no children to...lol...suck their life blood from their bodies.

They bought a lovely house high on a hill in the little village of Garsington, outside Oxford when he retired. Their property is beautiful with a traditional "English garden" out back and a view of rolling hills that extends forever. The Manor house, center of much that goes on now in the village is practically across the street and it is old and elegant, as if it had just stepped from the pages of an English novel. Sisters and brothers, nieces and nephews are all around them.

That's the good. The bad is primarily their unique financial situation, and may or may not be a factor for you. He worked for and was paid by an American company and although he has some money there, a big chunk of his money is here, in a 401K and stocks and bonds, and the money here is worth less and less as the dollar weakens. His mortgage is paid in pounds of course, but the money comes from his American savings...which grow steadily weaker. His SS check, which he is still eligible for, and which he had counted on for income...is steadily shrinking as well.

His other major complaint is the health care system and the length of time it takes for treatment. He elected to opt for the very expensive private insurance for this reason, and still has company benefits for treatment...but only if he comes back to the US to be treated...which he considers as an option for the quality of the health care system here.

Those I think are the only big issues, or all they have told us about. They do find the winters tedious and make an annual trip to FL to escape the gloom and rain. This they can put up with though, but the money situation is a real issue for them, despite the fact that they were, and probably still are, pretty well off.
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Old Jan 26th, 2005, 08:22 AM
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Hi 00! I very much appreciate your comments. You've brought up two very important concerns for us -the dwindling dollar and health care.Both a big concern for us. I feel for your friends with the financial situation--my husband and I realized we would probably need to take out private medical insurance after my friend told us her aunt had to wait over 6 months to get her gall bladder removed! Our pension and S.S. we would of course loose money on each month as you said even though we could have it sent there.If the dollar doesn't rebound it could be a problem for us!If we sold our house here and bought one in England, at least we would eliminate having to cope with a mortgage.I'm hoping in a few years when we are ready to make a move,the dollar will have stabilized! By the way, your friends house sounds lovely--quintesential English charm! But, alas life is not a fairy tale and we must deal with some of it's harsher realities. You've given us more to think about and we fully appreciate your generous response!!
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Old Jan 26th, 2005, 09:48 AM
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This is my dream as well - but I plan on supplementing my income with side work... as an accountant, I do taxes and probably always will, as well as lots of crafts and art. Now, just to convince the husband to go!!!

Anglophiles of the world unite and invade the UK!!!!
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Old Jan 26th, 2005, 10:24 AM
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You are more than welcome to join us in old Blighty and the majority of us will be only too happy to have you as our neighbours.

Unfortunately, as with everywhere there are a few people who will see it as their country and not yours. The immigration issue is worth keeping an eye on though. This is currently a major political issue, with several of the right-wing rags (newspapers) often leading on what can only be described as thinly veiled rascist issues. We have a general election likely in the next 3-6 months and if the opposition party (The conservatives) take power they have promised to reform immigration, making it a lot more difficult for people from abroad to come to live and work in this country - talk of an Australian style points system. Others may comment on the likelyhood of the Conservatives winning this election.

You will obviously need to research the house price situation - costs here are extortionate; even in the cheaper
parts of the UK a modest 2 bedroomed semidetached (i.e 2 houses joined together but occupied seperately) will set you back in excess of £100,000. Costs of living once you get outside the capital are not particularly high.
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Old Jan 26th, 2005, 10:56 AM
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I've lived here all my life my dear, what is it you'd like to know?
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Old Jan 26th, 2005, 12:31 PM
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Good good friends of mine are retiring. They are relocating to Mexico. Of course, before they burn all their bridges, they are going to rent down there for a year ... THEN sell out and move.
I think I agree with that strategy.
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Old Jan 26th, 2005, 05:20 PM
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Thank you for your responses dear Foderites!

For GreenDragon--You go girl!! we should all unite and make all of our Brit dreams come true! As far as your husband goes-- it took me a while to break down my husband--he loves England as much as I do, just is a bit less umm.. adventurous than me. It takes time and perseverance--mine finally decided to give it a go. Just took a bit of gentile nudging![ over a period of 3 years!]It's good you'll have added income to help you along. Good luck with your dream!!
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Old Jan 26th, 2005, 05:27 PM
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For Walter--Oh thank you kind sir-- you've warmed my heart!! Please tell me everyone is like you! I hope the conservative party doesn't get too strict-- honestly, I'd be heartbroken.Got to keep my eye on that one. And thanks Walter for going out of your way to be so kind--we'd sure love to be your neighbor too! that
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Old Jan 26th, 2005, 05:47 PM
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To m kingdom2 Oh- I'm blushing a bit-- should have watched my phrasing - of course my dear Brits might have read this too!! Anyhow--here goes. I'll try to keep it short for you: Our main concern would be the health care system, only because of the waiting lists. We certainly would take out private health insurance if it would help in that area IF we could afford a "standard" plan. Are they all terribly expensive? I know this would vary according to the coverage we would need-- hospitization , dr. visits, tests [ scans] if we needed the basics. I know your not an insurance agent , but if you know anything about it , it would help. Next would be the area-- we are interested in any area we can afford!! All kidding aside, we love Shropshire and Lincolnshire and the rest of the Midlands. Birmingham seems like a great city to live near. [please tell me I've spelled that correctly!] Any thoughts on these areas? I know that sounds general but I guess what I mean is are these considered to be expensive areas such as Kent? We don't mind rainy weather so that's not an issue. We just adore your lovely country and it's history and people. I know there is no perfect place , but we would greatly appreciate your input. Thanks!!
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Old Jan 26th, 2005, 05:51 PM
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To SusieC : That's exactly what we're going to do-- rent first, stay a while, then if all goes well --take off!!
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Old Jan 26th, 2005, 05:54 PM
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Upon driving through Dorset in 2000, I thought 'oh, what a perfect place to live--in a stone cottage with roses climbing all over the wall'. I'm just jumping in here because there's no way I could afford to live in England. I was somewhat amused later to read that the people in Dorset don't particularly care for people from London coming to live there.
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Old Jan 26th, 2005, 09:59 PM
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Hi hopingtotravel! Yes, Dorset is a beauty isn't it? But the bit of research I've tells me it's a rather expensive beauty! Wonder why they don't want Londoners there? Interesting.
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Old Jan 27th, 2005, 04:45 AM
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Londoners are probably resented for pushing up property prices and making it difficult for young people to stay near home.

Lexie, you would probably have to pay for NHS treatment anyway, at least unless/until you're given permanent residence in the UK: www.dh.gov.uk/overseasvisitors


As for waiting lists, well it all depends. Emergencies are well taken care of, and waiting times for non-acute treatments are coming down, with some local variations; but notoriously the relatively routine infirmities of old age tend not to attract the keenest specialists in the greatest numbers, and there are still not seamless relationships between health and social care organisations, both of which can slow things up. Also, you need to bear in mind that access to specialist hospital services other than in emergencies is via a general practitioner/family doctor, not by your own choice.
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Old Jan 27th, 2005, 04:52 AM
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For info on private health insurance try Bupa:

http://www.bupa.co.uk/
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Old Jan 27th, 2005, 05:08 AM
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I honestly wouldn't bother with private health insurance.
It's only worth having for things like "cold surgery" and as Patrick says, waiting times have been greatly reduced.
There's still a bit of what we call a postcode lottery and some hospital trusts are better than others.
If you're interested you can see performance tables at http://www.performance.doh.gov.uk/
Perhaps my American friends are not the richest people around, but I get the impression that as a British oldie I have far less anxiety about health care. One important thing is that prescriptions are free for the over sixties, very useful if you have a chronic condition.
Of course, the NHS is not perfect but you have to remember where many of the horror stories come from. It's quite common to get medics doing a bit of "shroud waving" when they are trying to get extra funding. US horror stories may well be coloured by the fact that private medicine there is a great money spinner.
It's also worth remembering that many private hospitals are not as well staffed or equipped as the NHS ones. If something goes wrong, you're likely to end up in an NHS hospital anyway.
 
Old Jan 27th, 2005, 05:25 AM
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Hi Lexie!

Firstly health care. Paying for private health insurance basically means you'll jump any waiting lists for tests, physiotherapy, surgery and the like. For serious conditions (cancer, heart etc) you'll still get treated in NHS hospitals by the same doctors, but just faster. Very few doctors are purely private - they mostly operate privately AND in the NHS. Note that private hospitals are plusher but smaller than NHS ones, hence the reason for why the NHS still carries out major surgery. Your GP will still be NHS. The cost of private health is dependant on your age and medical history. You should be able to get a reasonable idea of cost from www.bupa.co.uk (the UK's largest private health provider). For examples, I get private health insurance through work, and it only costs my company £23 a month, wheras my parents, both in their 70s, pay about £5000 a year between them, as they've had heart bypass (my Dad) and breast cancer (Mum, obviously) in the past. NHS cancer treatment is particularly excellent, and the UK has the world's largest cancer research organisation (cancer research UK.org.uk).

I'm from Birmingham originally, and you'll certainly get much more for your money in a pretty village in the Midlands than anything in the South. Birmingham gets a bad rap - most people, who've never seen further than the main train station, think it's a dump. However, it has radically redeveloped over the past 10 years, and now has excellent arts (Ballet, theatre, a world renowned symphony orchestra) and the largest shooping complex in Europe right in the centre of the city. The rest of Birmingham is a large, sprawling industrial city - it's the UK's second city after London - which has its good bits and bad bits, like any city, but as you'll be living outside, this doesn't affect you. If you can live within 1 hours drive of Birmingham, I think you'll love what it has to offer.

As for retiring here, I'd only second the recommendtion that you try renting for a year first. Try before you buy, you may hate it, you never know. And new countries don't always live up to your expectations. One regular here, BTIlke, as recently moved here and really isn't a fan - but then I'll think she'll admit herself than she never was really a fan of England or the British people (she's here under duress!)

Whatever happens, please keep us informed, and ask as many questions as you like.

Kate
London
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Old Jan 27th, 2005, 05:38 AM
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Sorry, but I can't agree about the Health Insurance business - if you can remotely afford it then go for it. It gives me great piece of mind to know that my family have this - waiting times can still be scary. My son, with acute tonsilitus would have waited over a year to have his tonsils removed. Health Insurance meant he was operated on within days. I would have had to wait 7 weeks for a brain scan (insurance meant I was seen in 2 days) - 7 weeks might not sound long but when you have something like that hanging over you it is such a relief to get it sorted immediately.
To change the subject, I live in North Yorkshire and last week there was an article in the news to say that there would be restrictions on who buys property in the Dales National Park. They are piloting a 'locals only' system to stop people selling their expensive properties in Southern England and buying in Yorkshire, thus pricing the locals out of the market.
I am always reluctant to generalise, but friends who visit America on holiday always comment that News programmes are only about America, and rarely about the rest of the world. This can give the impression that Americans can be insular. I am not saying I agree with this! Through an exchange visit my daughter did to Maine I have found the most wonderful American family that I love dearly, and visit whenever I can. Plus another 'fodorite' on the American thread has been so very kind and helpful and is meeting us when we visit California in March to take us out to dinner and show us around.
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Old Jan 27th, 2005, 05:39 AM
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I of course have PEACE of mind, as opposed to PIECE! It's been a long day!
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Old Jan 27th, 2005, 06:09 AM
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Two points:

1. Have you checked the legality of your plans? Unless you have an EU passport, you need to check leaflet INF 11 at www.ukvisas.gov.uk. There are a number of conditions for a retirement visa, most of which you probably fill. But you may well stumble on the requirement for "close connections with the UK", defined as:
- you have close relatives in the UK
- you have lived in the UK at any time
- you have worked for a long time with a British company
- you have business contacts in the UK established over a long period

To be blunt, if you're unsure on the spelling of this country's second city, you don't sound as if you've got especially close connections, and you may need a lawyer, or at any rate some quality time with your newarest UK consulate, for advice on how feasible retirement actually is. However, should you want to work, getting a work visa is relatively easy (check the Highly Skilled Migrant visa on the same site), and working here - apart from giving you some savings in hard currency - makes a retirement visa easier.

2. To try to answer your question. Are we fond of Americans? Of course not: no more or less than we're fond of Britons. I think it's fair to say the overwhelming majority of us are ruthlessly origin-blind when it comes to our likes and dislikes.
But there are a lot of differences between the two sides of the Atlantic which might strike many Americans as signs of hostility. For example:

- in spite of that weird myth about our politeness and reserve, we're often frighteningly direct and unsubtle. Almost all of us are highly sceptical about everything (which many can see as cynicism), and you get no kudos here for keeping your scepticism to yourself.
- so we criticise and satirise everything. Invitably, that means American habits and institutions get hit a lot more than, say, those of Turkmenistan. We all think we - and the people we're talking to - know a lot about the US, so we knock it as cheerfully as we knock the National Health, Blair's inability to tell the truth or Her Maj's corgis. It doesn't upset us that most of the world has been nasty about us for the past three centuries: we expect others to accept the burdens of world domination just as effortlessly.
- We don't move house as often as Americans. And when we do, it's rarely a big distance. So, since new neighbours come equipped with their own social circle, we don't really expect them to join ours. We don't do Welcome Waggons. This isn't because we're unfriendly. It's just that we've got our own friends and assume everyone else does.
- Sadly, htere's no Miss Manners guide to what really pisses people off, and it's a lot easier for English speakers to do so accidentally than for other immigrants. A Frenchman lighting up a Gauloise in most non-smoking households is just an odd ethnic habit a good host tolerates: an American or Australian assuming we share their delusion everyone prefers skin cancer weather, unnaturally chilled drinks or extravagant dentistry rapidly becomes a boor who doesn't get invited back. It's not that Americans or Australians are boors - but because you're fluent in our language, we unconsciously assume you understand the nuances of life here.

If you do decide to live here, don't go round terrified of upsetting people. But do remember that there's an automatic assumption that reasonably well-heeled, middle aged, English speakers have fully-formed social antennae, and that if they're not working properly, it's a decision not an accident.

And good luck, whatever you do.
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