logos999

You need some help. So does everyone else who thinks this is a political event. Despite their differences over things like the war in Iraq, the Pope and President Bush were very fond of each other because they shared a lot of the same moral values. Does everything have to be described as a political statement. Can't it simply be a funeral for a very good man who was loved and respected by many. I am glad that the United States is so well represented. I am sure a lot more people in our government who would go if it were possible. Not because it was politically expedient to do, but to honor a man who had done so much for so many.

Like I said, virtually all of official Washington will be there for the funeral. Both the House and Senate are taking signficant numbers of Catholic and some non-Catholic Senators and Congresspeople-something like 30 members of Congress all told. So no worries that everyone who wants to go in Washington won't be going! This delegation is not, by the way, an official delegation recognized by the Vatican- they are going on their own.

My problem is that I do not believe Mr. Bush is a christian and his motivation differs from what he claims. The mutual respect was more diplomacy than reality. The pope was a great man, his goals were genuine and peaceful. God is not with or against any nation on this planet, Mr. Bush devides the world and people into good and bad. He is not a good president, but a very weak person.

I do not know about Mr. Bush personally but many 'Christians' as well as other religions have done some terrible things over the years in the name of their religion/God or otherwise. Even some of the folk who go to church have hypocritical issues. Well - I just don't think anyone is perfect - there are plenty people going to see the pope who aren't terribly religious or catholic, right? I haven't watched the Fox news but if it truly is political it wouldn't surprise me, one way or the other.

I note, in reference to my post above, that the AP wire services are reporting that Pres. Bush has apologized again and in person to the President of Italy, C. Ciampi, over the Sgreza incident, and is expected to do the same with his meeting with Berlusconi today as well.

Whatever else one may think, from a diplomatic standpoint, the Pres.'s visit will be most productive in strengthening ties between two countries that could not be closer on world affairs-"il nostro alleato piu fidele" is Italy, both on the war in Iraq and on terror.

Now, let us all not be naïve about politics...The Catholic Church needs no apologist or defender on this site. There is always discussion amongst dignitaries... sometimes formal discussions at major events, yes...even funerals.

The Catholic Church is, I believe, the largest landowner in the world. They have been involved in many political events and wars over the years, some that they recently apologized for. They have recently apologized for certain outrageous events concerning Jews, and also for allowing the church to equate Mary Magdalene as a prostitute over the last several thousand years.

The Vatican is as political as it comes. They need to be. They are an entity to be reckoned with. In that regard, they are as a nation, with the same issues. The difference today is that they do not have large armies that destroy entire groups of "heretics", as they did in the past, combining forces with other countries to brutally slaughter the Cathars, The Templars, and through the Spanish, the Mayan and others.

Pope John Paul was a wonderful man. We need more like him in all walks of life. He brought the Vatican into the modern world and was the first non Italian Pope in over four hundred years.

Myself...I would just like to get into the Vatican library and read some of the ancient documents related to the controversial issues that are under discussion today in various popular books such as Holy Blood, Holy Grail and the DaVinci Code. Obviously the church has a tremendous need to keep the faith among its followers. I hope that continues, and is not eventually destroyed through the revelations of the future.

CNN showed Prince Charles and Princess Diana's visit with Pope. Princess Diana had lace head cover as well. I remembered this thread.

Queen Elisabeth II also wore a black veil over her hat during her audience with the late Pope.

I can't understand why people would be upset by this. It's simple diplomacy - like it or not, it's tradition that women wear head coverings when they have an audience with the Pope (and I guess this extends to a dead one). It would be perceived as a diplomatic faux pas for Mrs Bush and Ms Rice to do anything otherwise. Even the Queen did this when she visited the Pope a few years ago, and she's the Supreme Head of a rival church!

Let's not forget, when in Rome...

Not only did the Pope bring the Vatican into the modern world, but, if you noted today in the public disclosure of the Pope's will, the Holy Father actually blessed THE MEDIA in his will-That's right. Strange but true. Wolf Blitzer was incredulous.

But JPII was the first "media savvy" Pope-he was its friend, and knew how to use the power of the media to the Church's advantage. It's only fitting that the media should return the compliment by highlighting his life and death in such an effusive way.

To Cel56 :

My husband and I were in Rome last Toussaint holiday (end of Oct. 04). I can say that you are not required to wear anything on your head while visiting Saint Peter's and the Vatican Museums.

Same thing in French churches.

Attending the Pope's funeral or having the privilege to attend one of his audiences was very different of course.

Cel56: The wearing of mantillas is a relatively archaic practice on a day to day basis, you may find a few of the older generation will wear them but the majority do not, and neither is it expected of anyone.

To join in the rest of the thread, I guess an audience with the Pope, dead or alive, is rather different. It has less to do with religion than with tradition (and, I suppose, respect). I'm anything but religious but there's no way I would ever go into a church/cathedral/mosque/synagogue/temple etc wearing 'beach clothes', in precisely the same way that I wouldn't go to dinner at the home of vegetarians and have a hissy-fit about not being given a steak there! I just call it manners.