Wvmom, you are a brave soul! I would like to try roads with spectacular views. If there is any nail digging it will be with my eyes closed. I had problems with the drive up Mount Washington.

The road from Ronda to Grazelema and then on to Arcos is spectacular. Grazelema is tiny but beautiful -- a great spot to stop for lunch. Regarding Arcos, be sure to go to the center of the "old town" on the very top of the hill; just follow the signs to the Parador -- whether you stay there or not.
I just reviewed the pictures I took in Arcos last month, many taken at night, and they reminded me how spectacular the town is. I don't think there is anything special about the newer part of town, which you drive thru on the way to the top. My recollection is about 2 hours from Arcos to Seville, mostly on an "interstate" highway.

InMiami, a warning - our Michelin map shows an old numbering system, for example the road between Ronda and San Pedro is no longer the A376, as marked on the Michelin map. I cannot find the A-375 road you mention on viamichelin.

wvmom, speaking of the road between Ronda and San Pedro - you might like it, as it is twisty and a real "rally drive" experience, lots of fun. Also lovely cork forests, and views of the Med if you're lucky on the south end.

Also great for views are the roads in El Torcal natural park just outside Antequera.

I hated, and I mean hated, the fast highway road near Malaga.

wvmom- we drove from Málaga to Río Gordo and I have never had more Grand Prix style fun (aside from that one crazy day in Monaco a few years back).

hi, All, and thanks again.

Admittedly, the petty crime warnings left an a bit of an aftertaste, but the changes I am considering have more to do with our very limited time in Andalucia (5 days in all, only 1.5 in Seville) as well as traveling with two teenage daughters.

I decided to skip Tangiers for now and go from Arcos (where we are spending one night) to Ronda for a few hours, then a short stop in Marbella and Nerja and on to Granada, our next destination (2 nights) before Madrid.

Previously we would have gone from Arcos to Tarifa, Tangiers, then on to Costa del Sol and Granada. If we are not going to Tangiers, we can skip Tarifa and the Gibraltar area and see Ronda.

I think we would enjoy the road from Arcos to Ronda. The gray_lady's description has certainly whet my appetite

I have spent a lot of time in Western and Eastern Europe, not to mention NY and have witnessed more petty crime than I care to remember. Our kids though may not have enough streetsmarts to travel in such unfamiliar places as Morocco. Seems like a good opportunity to develop some while in Spain... I just want to manage risk somewhat.

Tangiers I now think would have made our schedule positively breakneck. We will do North Africa, my longtime dream, another time.

Thanks to All,

-e

enroute- good call on leaving Tangiers out for later. Morocco as a country deserves so much more than a day trip. I was there exactly a year ago for a month and have the fondest memories of a truly wonderful country. Do make the dream come true some day, though.

Having just returned from this area my only advice is not to be surprised when the road numbers do not match your map. We were using the current Michelin map. You must watch the road signs which point you to the far point you are going to. We loved Mijas and Ronda. The weather can be dramatically differant when your in the mountains or at the coast. We left Estopona in dense fog and when we crossed the mountain ridge the sun was shining..

Thanks, laclare. I have every intention of making it there and other neighboring countries, as I collect Middle Eastern copper and textiles (esp. Persian) as well as African art. It's a bit of a disease that makes my eventual arrival to North Africa fairly certain, I am afraid

P.S., laclaire,

I am planning a flamenco night out in Madrid. Got a recommendation from a local for "El corral de la moreria" y " Cafe Chinitas" and thought I'd consult with an expert. Any thoughts/recommendations?

Many thanks,

-e

enroute- the main difference between those two places is that Corral has their own regular group (which I have not seen) and Chinitas brings in guest artists. The question then becomes who is performing at Chinitas? Sometimes they do host fabulous dancers and singers (José Mercé, Mario Maya, la Repompa, etc) and then if there is a lull, you get what you get. So, I would be interested to know who will be there when you are.

The tablao par excellence is "Los Canasteros." It used to be owned by Manolo Caracol (if you are looking to get into music, look for stuff by this guy, who is fantastic and very traditional). That is where all of my dance teachers go when in Madrid, and a dancer who debuts there does so because they are the best of what is out there. They get consistently good performers and are known for randomly hosting incredibly famous people like the Farruco family and Rafaela Carrasco (a favorite of mine. . . she won't be up there for a while, though, as she just had a beautiful baby and is staying in Granada).

So, I always say Canasteros is the place to go, but check who is at Chinitas on the dates you are there. You might be pleasantly surprised.

Thanks, laclaire. Much obliged. Will do the research an then report back here in about three weeks.

-e

Manolo Caracol was fantastic , I mean, he died long time ago. It's just to clarify in case you ask for his records on a shop