Haggis Not Scottish
Aug 4th, 2009, 11:13 AM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,023
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Haggis Not Scottish
BBC NEWS | UK | Haggis is English, historian says
Aug 3, 2009 ... But former world champion haggis maker Robert Patrick insisted: ... The first mention she could find of Scottish haggis was in 1747. ... China Post Haggis invented 'by the English' not the Scots: reports - 10 hrs ago ...
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8180791.stm - Cached - Similar
Ah yeh Haggis, the legendary Scottish sausage that poets like Burns helped make a Scottish epicruean icon turns out to be not Scottish a'tal but indeed English.
Another Scottish myth i guess - along with the bagpipes, which i found out in a famous book on Ireland was invented in Ireland and the Irish gave it to the Scots, who, in the words of the author, "never got the joke".
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
<Haggis is an offal dish containing sheep's 'pluck' (heart, liver and lungs), minced with onion, oatmeal, suet, spices, and salt, mixed with stock, and traditionally boiled in the animal's stomach for approximately three hours.
Haggis somewhat resembles stuffed intestines (pig intestines otherwise known as chitterlings), sausages and savoury puddings of which it is among the largest types. It also has affinities with the French Andouillette>
I have never had a haggis - i'd like to know if folks really like them or just eat them on Bobbie Burns day or because of their tradition?
Aug 3, 2009 ... But former world champion haggis maker Robert Patrick insisted: ... The first mention she could find of Scottish haggis was in 1747. ... China Post Haggis invented 'by the English' not the Scots: reports - 10 hrs ago ...
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8180791.stm - Cached - Similar
Ah yeh Haggis, the legendary Scottish sausage that poets like Burns helped make a Scottish epicruean icon turns out to be not Scottish a'tal but indeed English.
Another Scottish myth i guess - along with the bagpipes, which i found out in a famous book on Ireland was invented in Ireland and the Irish gave it to the Scots, who, in the words of the author, "never got the joke".
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
<Haggis is an offal dish containing sheep's 'pluck' (heart, liver and lungs), minced with onion, oatmeal, suet, spices, and salt, mixed with stock, and traditionally boiled in the animal's stomach for approximately three hours.
Haggis somewhat resembles stuffed intestines (pig intestines otherwise known as chitterlings), sausages and savoury puddings of which it is among the largest types. It also has affinities with the French Andouillette>
I have never had a haggis - i'd like to know if folks really like them or just eat them on Bobbie Burns day or because of their tradition?
Aug 4th, 2009, 11:33 AM
#2
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 22,986
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The only relationship between haggis, andouillette and chitterlings is that they all are made of innards, but each from different innards.
As for the bag-pipe, it exists on the continent known in France as the musette and was probably developed independently in different countries--an animal bladder is an animal bladder is an animal bladder.
As for the bag-pipe, it exists on the continent known in France as the musette and was probably developed independently in different countries--an animal bladder is an animal bladder is an animal bladder.
Aug 4th, 2009, 11:47 AM
#3
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,351
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I like haggis, but can't stand andouillette which tastes like poop to me.
When I lived in England a Scottish friend would catch a haggis every now and then when she went home and bring it down for us to share. Last trip to Scotland I tucked into haggis and neeps at a pub one lunchtime.
Sausage casings are made from intestines, and faggots are made from offal and belly meat covered in caul. Haggis is no worse than these. I enjoy liver, kidneys and heart, so why not haggis. But please no andouillette. I don't think they clean the tripe before making the andouillette
.
When I lived in England a Scottish friend would catch a haggis every now and then when she went home and bring it down for us to share. Last trip to Scotland I tucked into haggis and neeps at a pub one lunchtime.
Sausage casings are made from intestines, and faggots are made from offal and belly meat covered in caul. Haggis is no worse than these. I enjoy liver, kidneys and heart, so why not haggis. But please no andouillette. I don't think they clean the tripe before making the andouillette
.
Aug 4th, 2009, 12:21 PM
#5
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,778
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Remember that you are really eating haggis for the stuffing, not the casing. Yes, the stuffing is full of all sorts of trimmings and spare parts, but it is darn tasty if you ask me. The presence of so much grain and stock cuts that offal taste quite a bit.
If you like dirty rice, then I would think you would like haggis.
If you like dirty rice, then I would think you would like haggis.
Aug 4th, 2009, 10:38 PM
#8
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There's not a shred of evidence that the English invented the haggis.
Just a story about a really sloppy researcher who's made that conclusion from the fact that an Englishman wrote about it first.
Which merely demonstrates that the Scotch, prior to 1615, were too busy stealing each others' cattle, throwing stools at priests using prayerbooks, whingeing about the English, freezing to death, deep-frying Mars bars and carrying out all the other driech routines of the Britain's most charm-free province* to spare time for writing down anything - except of course yet another misogynistic rant from one of Scotland's endless procession of religious extremists.
* You're right. With Wales and Northern Ireland to compete with, I should have said "one of the UK's three most charm-free provinces"
Just a story about a really sloppy researcher who's made that conclusion from the fact that an Englishman wrote about it first.
Which merely demonstrates that the Scotch, prior to 1615, were too busy stealing each others' cattle, throwing stools at priests using prayerbooks, whingeing about the English, freezing to death, deep-frying Mars bars and carrying out all the other driech routines of the Britain's most charm-free province* to spare time for writing down anything - except of course yet another misogynistic rant from one of Scotland's endless procession of religious extremists.
* You're right. With Wales and Northern Ireland to compete with, I should have said "one of the UK's three most charm-free provinces"
Aug 5th, 2009, 12:12 AM
#9
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I like haggis, but as in all foods, they can vary.
In Scotland, I like the sliced version for breakfast.
The best ones come from small local butchers.
Nowadays, most come in plastic bags rather than sheep's stomachs, although Marks and Sparks sometimes have them in what they coyly call "traditional casing"
I suspect that like the bagpipe, many cultures will have something similar.
Now, the kilt on the other hand, really is an English invention
In Scotland, I like the sliced version for breakfast.
The best ones come from small local butchers.
Nowadays, most come in plastic bags rather than sheep's stomachs, although Marks and Sparks sometimes have them in what they coyly call "traditional casing"
I suspect that like the bagpipe, many cultures will have something similar.
Now, the kilt on the other hand, really is an English invention
Aug 5th, 2009, 12:29 AM
#10
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,190
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am Scottish and very much enjoy haggis,I get mine from the Local Butcher Mr Findlay of Portobello.
I have never believed that Haggis was a Scottish invention but just an adaptation of an item that has been and still is prevelant in many cultures,much the same as black pudding (or blood pudding) could never be claimed to be English.
The extract New World Encyclopedia seems to back me up.
History
The haggis is frequently assumed to be Scottish in origin although there is little evidence for this. It appears that the Ancient Romans made products of the haggis type.[3] A kind of primitive haggis is referred to in Homer's Odyssey, in book 20, when Odysseus is compared to "a man before a great blazing fire turning swiftly this way and that a stomach full of fat and blood, very eager to have it roasted quickly."
Clarissa Dickson Wright repudiated the assumption of a Scottish origin for haggis, claiming that it "came to Scotland in a longship [in other words from Scandinavia] even before Scotland was a single nation."[4] Dickson-Wright further cites etymologist Walter William Skeat as further suggestion of possible Scandinavian origins: Skeat claimed that the hag– part of the word is derived from the Old Norse hoggva or the Icelandic haggw, meaning 'to hew' or strike with a sharp weapon, relating to the chopped-up contents of the dish.
Dickson Wright suggests that haggis was invented as a way of cooking quick-spoiling offal near the site of a hunt, without the need to carry along an additional cooking vessel. The liver and kidneys could be grilled directly over a fire, but this treatment was unsuitable for the stomach, intestines, or lungs. Chopping up the lungs and stuffing the stomach with them and whatever fillers might have been on hand, then boiling the assembly—likely in a vessel made from the animal's hide—was one way to make sure these parts did not go to waste.[5] In fact, in times of famine people would eat whatever it was that they could get their hands on, which is how all those fascinating ingredients became a part of Scottish tradition.
Popular folklore has provided more additional theories regarding the origins of the haggis. One such belief is that the dish originates from the days of the old Scottish cattle drovers. When the men left the highlands to drive their cattle to market in Edinburgh the women would prepare rations for them to eat during the long journey down through the glens. They used the ingredients that were most readily available in their homes and conveniently packaged them in a sheep's stomach allowing for easy transportation during the journey. Other speculations have been based on Scottish slaughtering practices. When a Chieftain or Laird required an animal to be slaughtered for meat (whether sheep or cattle) the workmen were allowed to keep the offal as their share.
And as for the Kilt that is Bloody English and you can keep it.
Sir Walter Scott and his romatic cr*p has a lot to answer for.
I have never believed that Haggis was a Scottish invention but just an adaptation of an item that has been and still is prevelant in many cultures,much the same as black pudding (or blood pudding) could never be claimed to be English.
The extract New World Encyclopedia seems to back me up.
History
The haggis is frequently assumed to be Scottish in origin although there is little evidence for this. It appears that the Ancient Romans made products of the haggis type.[3] A kind of primitive haggis is referred to in Homer's Odyssey, in book 20, when Odysseus is compared to "a man before a great blazing fire turning swiftly this way and that a stomach full of fat and blood, very eager to have it roasted quickly."
Clarissa Dickson Wright repudiated the assumption of a Scottish origin for haggis, claiming that it "came to Scotland in a longship [in other words from Scandinavia] even before Scotland was a single nation."[4] Dickson-Wright further cites etymologist Walter William Skeat as further suggestion of possible Scandinavian origins: Skeat claimed that the hag– part of the word is derived from the Old Norse hoggva or the Icelandic haggw, meaning 'to hew' or strike with a sharp weapon, relating to the chopped-up contents of the dish.
Dickson Wright suggests that haggis was invented as a way of cooking quick-spoiling offal near the site of a hunt, without the need to carry along an additional cooking vessel. The liver and kidneys could be grilled directly over a fire, but this treatment was unsuitable for the stomach, intestines, or lungs. Chopping up the lungs and stuffing the stomach with them and whatever fillers might have been on hand, then boiling the assembly—likely in a vessel made from the animal's hide—was one way to make sure these parts did not go to waste.[5] In fact, in times of famine people would eat whatever it was that they could get their hands on, which is how all those fascinating ingredients became a part of Scottish tradition.
Popular folklore has provided more additional theories regarding the origins of the haggis. One such belief is that the dish originates from the days of the old Scottish cattle drovers. When the men left the highlands to drive their cattle to market in Edinburgh the women would prepare rations for them to eat during the long journey down through the glens. They used the ingredients that were most readily available in their homes and conveniently packaged them in a sheep's stomach allowing for easy transportation during the journey. Other speculations have been based on Scottish slaughtering practices. When a Chieftain or Laird required an animal to be slaughtered for meat (whether sheep or cattle) the workmen were allowed to keep the offal as their share.
And as for the Kilt that is Bloody English and you can keep it.
Sir Walter Scott and his romatic cr*p has a lot to answer for.
Aug 5th, 2009, 01:36 AM
#12
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's a well known fact that wild Haggis have two long legs and two short legs place on either side of the body. This enables it to run around mountain tops at tremendous speed. If you want to catch a Haggis get it on level ground. They topple.
Aug 5th, 2009, 01:45 AM
#13
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,190
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you can go online haggis Hunting
http://haggishunt.scotsman.com/
seasobn starts on St Andrews Day and goes on Till Burns night.
I will let you work out the dates for yourselves.
http://haggishunt.scotsman.com/
seasobn starts on St Andrews Day and goes on Till Burns night.
I will let you work out the dates for yourselves.
Aug 5th, 2009, 03:42 AM
#14
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"flanneruk ,we are Scottish or Scots"
Not according to Samuel Johnson, you're not.
I understand there's a convention in the Frozen North you all know nothing about the real world, so I might have to explain he wrote the first dictionary of our shared language.
The affectation that the term "Scotch" is used only to describe tape, eggs, mist and your undrinkable imitation of whiskey is one of those silly Victorian prisseries the Scotch invented about the same time as clan tartans.
Not according to Samuel Johnson, you're not.
I understand there's a convention in the Frozen North you all know nothing about the real world, so I might have to explain he wrote the first dictionary of our shared language.
The affectation that the term "Scotch" is used only to describe tape, eggs, mist and your undrinkable imitation of whiskey is one of those silly Victorian prisseries the Scotch invented about the same time as clan tartans.
Aug 5th, 2009, 03:48 AM
#16
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,664
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Miss Prism - haggis is not a breakfast dish (not even for teuchters), you're probably confusing it with other traditional delicacies such as black pudding or square sausage, which are served sliced at breakfast.
Palenque, if you've never eaten haggis you're missing out - honestly! And no we don't just eat it on Burns Night, it's a regular at our dinner table during the winter months, and even my sassenach wife likes it.
Palenque, if you've never eaten haggis you're missing out - honestly! And no we don't just eat it on Burns Night, it's a regular at our dinner table during the winter months, and even my sassenach wife likes it.
Aug 5th, 2009, 04:12 AM
#20
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,023
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What with that and stealing the idea for the telephone you start to wonder if Scots have ever done anything>
well as flimflanner points out the deep-fried Mars bars seems to be a purely Scottish creation
well as flimflanner points out the deep-fried Mars bars seems to be a purely Scottish creation
