Tracy

I went to Italy paranoid abot gypsies after reading so many warnings (thank you Rick Steves). We saw a few beggars in Florence, none in Venice. If we were going to be in pick-pocket territory (i.e. in line to see the Duomo in Florence), I made sure to hold my bag in my hands. My husband kept his moneyclip in his front pocket with his hand in his pocket. Don't worry to omuch - be smart, just like you would in any large US city

Stu

I suggest that you not only watch out for Gypsies seeking to steal your valuables, but also guard against being sat upon by Americans, puked upon by Irishmen, gassed by Germans, deported by Australians, impaled by Romanians, colonised by Britons, burnt at the stake by Spaniards, abducted by Albanians, tortured by Chileans, imprisoned by Iranians, charged exorbitant interest by Jews, and crucified by Italians.<BR><BR>Have a nice trip.

Judy

I could relate numerous tales of encountering gypsies abroad which happened either to us or friends including loss of many hundred of dollars but won't. What I do want to comment on is the no gypsies in the US. We are on the main track that gypsies take from Canada to Fla. where they winter. Consequently people in our town near the interstate are victimized twice a year in May and Sept. when this exodus takes place. Unfortunately, we know from experience. They were sighted near my home by a neighbor but didn't realize till later what happened. I lost all my good jewelry including many family pieces as well as my sterling silver. That is usually all they take, what they can run with if caught. The goods are then quickly mailed back to Canada, according to the police. So we are extremely careful when travelling, no wallets, just the security purses worn inside our clothes except for a few dollars, and we don't stop to look at admiring babies or accept any strange tales from people, pretending to be plain clothesmen. No eye contact is the key if you are unsure. And we do love to travel!! Judy

Carol

I was in Ste.Maries de la Mer in the Carmargue of France during the festival of St. Sara when many Rom come to pay homage to their patron saint . (go if you can, they come in caravans, nowadays mostly Gulfstream trailers and have a fantastic parade through the town, playing music in the square at night). I was accosted by a middle-aged palm reader, and being spunky and middle-aged myself, grabbed her hand too and started to tell her a nice fortune, in my bad French. When she recovered from her shock we had a wonderful long friendly chat about getting older, husbands and children, the universal subjects of women everywhere. Later when accosted by a young woman fortuneteller, I told her I just had the same discussion with her mother or her aunt. Not knowing what to do with that, she walked on. And of course I never carry anything of value anyway.

Anne

Sheila, you are trying so hard to be politically correct, that you distorted what Lem was saying. I have never heard of any country describing gypsies as a race. And everyone but you knows that gypsies are known throughout the world as thieves. So please get off your high horse.

Sheila

Actually Anne, you are wrong. In the UK discrimination against gypsies on the grounds of their being gypsies is an offence under the Race Relations Act. It is my understanding that most European countries make the same distinction.<BR><BR>If judging a person on his or her actions rather than his or her birth, makes me PC, it's a charge I'm happy to answer to.<BR><BR>For the record, I grew up around travelling people of Irish and Scottish stock, and never met a thief amongst them.<BR><BR>I'm not saying that there aren't gypsies who steal; but being a gypsy doesn't make you a thief any more than being black makes you, say, violent.<BR><BR>Hi ho, Silver!

Elina

Anne, you are wrong and Sheila is right on this. Gypsies are considered an ethnic minority group in all European countries. And racial discrimination is prohibited by law. I live in Finland and gypsies here have a minority status. We even have radio news in Roma language. I know there are some thieving gypsies, but I know also a lawyer and a teacher who are gypsies. Many of them are very religious and certainly don´t steal.

dgmr

If you want to see some real gypsies in the US, travel to Augusta, Georgia. They live in a specific area, have huge overly decorated homes often with trailers in the rear where relatives live. It is dangerous to ride through their neighborhood, and someone will most likely follow you to make sure you leave. They do not register their children with a SSN, pay taxes, or send their children to school. Young girls are often married to older men. You can spot them at restaurants because these eight to twelve year old girls will have outlandish makeup and hairstlyes- like they are in a beauty pagent.<BR>The government has a difficult time with them because they all use the same names. <BR>Many of their offspring have inbreeding issues. In fact, they advertise for mates from other areas to try and avoid this.<BR>Hard to believe but true.

Marco

Gypsies are an indian ethnic tribe from nothern India that left that area in the 15th century (reasons are still a mistery) and started a long journey going west. When they reached the mediterranean they splitted into two groups, one went north Africa through Egypt and from there they reached in the 17th century south of Italy and south of Spain where they were called Gitanos in Spain and Gitani in Italy which means Egyptians because that's what they would answer to people who asked them were they were coming from, gypsie (egyptian) comes from this. The other group that went directly to central Europe in the 16th century are called sometimes Rom, because people thought they were from Romania, Bohemians in France because the first group that reached France was coming from Bohemia and tzigans in other parts of Europe or zingari (don't know why) in Rome and nothern Italy.

Marco

Wherever they went they ended up to adopt the locall language and the local religion, they are muslims in Bosnia, Turkey, and Iran, catholics in Spain, France and Italy, orthodox, in the Balkans and Greece, they speack Spanish in Spain and south of France, southern Italian dialects in Calabria, Basilicata, and Apulia where they are called Gitani (you don't find them in Sicily) and serbian in Rome and Nothern Italy where they came rather recently from former Yougoslavia about 50 years ago and people call them Zingari or Rom, etc... However they always refused to integrate in any of the local population and even thought they adopted language and religion they never changed their way of leaving which make them preatty similars anywhere they are and in each of those new languages they kept some words of their original forgotten language.

Marco

Some facts :<BR><BR>They always travell and refuse to settle anywhere forever.<BR><BR>They don't believe in working and don't consider work a value of honor or civilisation. They do make their living mostly out of Pickpocketting, and they do target only tourist and almost never local population for strategical reasons: tourists are more distracted, tourits always leave, you don't risk to meet them again.<BR><BR>They almost never make the use of violence, at least never in Western Europe.<BR><BR>They LOVE music. As for the language and the religion they don't have a common music and always adopted the local one. But what they have in common is the fact they become the best interprets of those musics. The best Flamenco in Spain are from the Gitanos in Andalucia and South of France where they came from Spain a hundred years ago ( Remember the Gypsies Kings, they are from south of France), the best Romanian, balkanic or Russian music are from them. Manitas de plata (spanish gypsie) was Picasso's favourite guitarist. <BR><BR>After a good pickpocketting day they always party and play great music and dance all night long around a fire in their camps, drinking and eating. It may ruin the day for some tourists but it sure brings them happiness.<BR><BR>A french poet said they are the last cicadas in a world of ants.<BR><BR>Once a year, in spring, gypsies from all over Europe come together in Camargue (south of France) for a big reunion. There they all play music all day and night, you can hear the best european folk music ever. Flamenco mixed with hungarian mixed with Tarantella or Greek music. For music lover it is incredible.<BR><BR>

Marco

Forgot to say that during this big happening in Camargue it is the only place where they stop pickpocketting, tourists can relax and be distracted by their beautifull music, nothing will happen to them, gypsies will consider any tourist there their hosts.<BR><BR>Another last thing, Frank, you may have corruption in Italy, but it is a very rich country so that happens on very high levels (like Mafia as you mentioned), I doubt that gypsies can afford to corrupt the very well paid police forces, that's more the habit of politicians or entrepreneurs. The reason why Police don't really react is the fact that gypsies always use children for their thieves and according to italian laws you cannot arrest anyone under the age of 13, and from 13 to 18 only for violent crimes (pickpocket isn't consider so). The only thing you should do is call their parents, problem is they have no phones. Cops don't waste their energy trying to arrest them, the only thing they can do if they catch them on time is to return the stolen money to its legitimate owner and then let it go.

Marco

One last thing, Hemingway was also a great gypsie's music lover.

a mercan

There's an excellent french film about Gypsies called Latcho Drom (Bonne Route) There were also two more that came after it by the same director. For those of you who don't know who the Gypsies are and where they come from , you will find it very informative and beautiful. They are very ambulant people and they love music and dance. The US is filled with them. Of course! They are misunderstood and unfortunately have found some very unsavory ways of making a living. But not all of them.<BR><BR>

Sue

Marco, I love it: the last cicadas in a world of ants....

Sue

One of the other films by the Latcho Drom director Tony Gatlif was Gadjo Dilo, charming movie about the clash of cultures (French/Rom).

Marlina

Sheila and Elina, you both resemble one another, in complete stupidiness and arrogance. What spectacles you both are. Most gypsies ARE thieves!

Michelle

While on tour in Italy, 7 of our tour passengers were pickpocketed by gypsies in Rome, Florence and Pisa. I have to tell you that these gypsies can be very dangerous if you attempt to chase them to get your belongings back. We were advised by our tour director to immediately get back on our coach and wait for the police to arrive. Of course the Italian police did absolutely nothing, and told everyone this is common practice. Maybe if these criminals were arrested they would stop pickpocketing.

Sheila

I'm certainly not stupid, and whilst I may be arrogant it's not about this.<BR><BR>Your evidence Marlina for gyspies being thieves? <BR><BR>And the rest of you, how do you know these people who stole from you were gypsies?<BR><BR>I know the things about gypsies which Marco quotes. I have no doubt some gypsies steal, just like some non-gypsies. But it really is nonsense to suggest that that is how they set out to earn a living.<BR><BR>Racial steroptyping like this would be unacceptable levelled at any other group. Why accept it levelled at gypsies?<BR><BR>They, like the Jews, were victims of Hitlers death camps for the same reasons you guys lay out here, and that's a) nothing I want to be associated with and b) a reason you might want to learn a little more about them

Sheila

I got really tee'd off about this and went and did some research. I found a really good site which has a long articles on it called The Pariah Syndrome. There's quite a lot about gypsies in North America as wll as the historical stuff. <BR><BR>The URL is http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/patrin.htm<BR><BR>Anyone who actually cares about knowing what they're talking about might like to have a look. Anyone who doesn't could just keep reiterating their prejudices. <BR><BR>They guy doesn't say it doesn't happen by the way. Here is one extract<BR><BR>"Stealing in particular is seen as a Gypsy trait; specialists such as Lombroso or Getsay have even implied that it is a genetic characteristic. Certainly some Gypsies steal, just as some Eskimos or Berbers or Englishmen steal; others don't. It is social behavior, and it is not transmitted biologically. To believe that such a thing is possible reflects not only prejudice, but an ignorance of scientific fact. <BR>Problems which exist today are the result of a continuum of circumstances going back for centuries. Few could argue that there has not been moral justification for subsistence stealing in the past, or that in some places it continues to be necessary, although this is not likely to be taken into consideration in a court of law. Historically, stealing has meant survival, and there are many shopkeepers throughout Europe even today, who will not serve Gypsies. There are homeowners, too, who will refuse to give Gypsies as much as a glass of water*. Given the the choice between seeing one's family starve, or else stealing, the latter is going to be the likelier option, whether one is a Gypsy or not. But the public doesn't seem to be interested in Gypsies who don't steal; perhaps it spoils the image it has created."<BR><BR><BR>