guided tours and 1st time trips to Europe
Oct 18th, 2009, 11:12 AM
#41
if you want to start learning the language/s, you and the kids could do worse than have a go at the beginners courses by Michel Thomas. he does french, spanish and Italian [and german, but you don't need that one] and i have found them all very successful.
regards, ann
regards, ann
Oct 18th, 2009, 11:54 AM
#43
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I think Spain, Italy and France would make a great trip. You had mentioned Amsterdam, Germany, etc so it sounded like you wanted a taste of northern Europe as well. You might still want to consider that. Spain, Italy and France are my favorite countries but in some sense they are similar, at least compared to northern Europe. Also Spain is quite large and getting there from Italy by train would take quite a while.
Keeping that in mind I would stick to the itinerary I gave you earlier but drop Vienna. If you look at a map (http://www.europeetravel.com/maps/eu...-political.htm) Vienna is really out of the way. Also, as much as I love Provence and the south of France, that too is out of the way.
My revised suggestion would be:
Amsterdam 3 nights
Trier Germany (1 night) (it's near Cologne on the map)
Strasbourg France (2 nights)
Switzerland (3 nights)
Venice Italy (3 nights)
Florence Italy (4 nights with day trip to Tuscan hill town)
Paris (5 nights with a day trip to smaller town)
I would fly from Florence to Paris (check www.whichbudget.com or www.easyjet.com) and you'll see you can do that for a lot less time and money than a train). (Schedules are only for the next six months but you can get an idea). The rest could be done by train and probably much cheaper to just buy second class point to point tickets rather than a pass.
If you look at the map, this itinerary minimizes the distance (and therefore the train time) between each destination. Blut still, each of these trips is about 3-4 hours, and that will eat up most of a day. Obviously you'll need to tweak it to your own interests, but this gives you the "taste" of Europe you originally said you wanted. As I said, I prefer southern Europe but I know lots of people who prefer northern so seeing some of both would be nice.
If you did decide to do Spain, Italy and France I would fly between countries and take trains between cities within each country. And I would stick to only two locations in each country.
I always decide where to go by looking at photos of places. I have several galleries of photos grouped by country/region so you might want to take a look and see which places appeal more to you. www.pbase.com/annforcier
Keeping that in mind I would stick to the itinerary I gave you earlier but drop Vienna. If you look at a map (http://www.europeetravel.com/maps/eu...-political.htm) Vienna is really out of the way. Also, as much as I love Provence and the south of France, that too is out of the way.
My revised suggestion would be:
Amsterdam 3 nights
Trier Germany (1 night) (it's near Cologne on the map)
Strasbourg France (2 nights)
Switzerland (3 nights)
Venice Italy (3 nights)
Florence Italy (4 nights with day trip to Tuscan hill town)
Paris (5 nights with a day trip to smaller town)
I would fly from Florence to Paris (check www.whichbudget.com or www.easyjet.com) and you'll see you can do that for a lot less time and money than a train). (Schedules are only for the next six months but you can get an idea). The rest could be done by train and probably much cheaper to just buy second class point to point tickets rather than a pass.
If you look at the map, this itinerary minimizes the distance (and therefore the train time) between each destination. Blut still, each of these trips is about 3-4 hours, and that will eat up most of a day. Obviously you'll need to tweak it to your own interests, but this gives you the "taste" of Europe you originally said you wanted. As I said, I prefer southern Europe but I know lots of people who prefer northern so seeing some of both would be nice.
If you did decide to do Spain, Italy and France I would fly between countries and take trains between cities within each country. And I would stick to only two locations in each country.
I always decide where to go by looking at photos of places. I have several galleries of photos grouped by country/region so you might want to take a look and see which places appeal more to you. www.pbase.com/annforcier
Oct 18th, 2009, 12:05 PM
#44
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Here are some train travel times for an itinerary starting in Paris. That is a good place to start, as you can stay in an apartment (short stays available from VacationInParis. Four nights would be good for Paris.
Then:
Paris to Montreux/Vevey, under 5 hours by train
(This makes a good overnight stop between France and Italy as the nearby Chateau de Chillon is on everyone's list of favorite castles to visit. Vevey is a nice place to stay and there is a family-friendly hotel there)
Montreux to Florence 6.5 hours
Florence to Rome, 1 hour 40 minutes
Than, assuming you want to sort of follow the Rick Steves path and stay on the train,
Rome to Vernazza (Cinque Terre) 4.5 hours
From Cinque Terra, you could either train to Nice and from there to Barcelona (a long ride), OR you could skip Nice and go from CT to Torino in around 4 hours, and take a night train to Barcelona from there.
Assuming 4 nights in Paris, 3 each in Florence and Rome, one in Montreux or Vevey, and 2 in Cinque Terre, this has you on the night train on your say to Barcelona on the 14th night of your trip, leaving you 6 days to spend in Spain, flying home from Madrid.
Then:
Paris to Montreux/Vevey, under 5 hours by train
(This makes a good overnight stop between France and Italy as the nearby Chateau de Chillon is on everyone's list of favorite castles to visit. Vevey is a nice place to stay and there is a family-friendly hotel there)
Montreux to Florence 6.5 hours
Florence to Rome, 1 hour 40 minutes
Than, assuming you want to sort of follow the Rick Steves path and stay on the train,
Rome to Vernazza (Cinque Terre) 4.5 hours
From Cinque Terra, you could either train to Nice and from there to Barcelona (a long ride), OR you could skip Nice and go from CT to Torino in around 4 hours, and take a night train to Barcelona from there.
Assuming 4 nights in Paris, 3 each in Florence and Rome, one in Montreux or Vevey, and 2 in Cinque Terre, this has you on the night train on your say to Barcelona on the 14th night of your trip, leaving you 6 days to spend in Spain, flying home from Madrid.
Oct 18th, 2009, 12:37 PM
#45
I thought isabel's first plan could be improved by dropping Vienna and/or Provence (not because they aren't "worth" it, but because of time limitations) and adding a couple of nights in Paris -- and that is how her new revision works out. That would be a nice 3 week trip.
W/ just 5 nights in Paris you may or may not have time for a day trip. But you don't have to decide now. Wait until you are there and if you are loving Paris too much to bear leaving for most of a day, don't.
W/ just 5 nights in Paris you may or may not have time for a day trip. But you don't have to decide now. Wait until you are there and if you are loving Paris too much to bear leaving for most of a day, don't.
Oct 18th, 2009, 03:39 PM
#46
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Thanks again everyone, these itineraries look incredibly wonderful! I think that once I've secured the vacation time, we will look into flights based on where we'll fly into. I like the idea of staying at some areas such as Paris for at least a few nites (fewer rooms to book as well). Maybe a mix of air and train will be best. We'll do our homework ahead of time and utilize the office of tourism at each major city that was mentioned earlier. My children took French and Spanish, respectively in high school so that this will give them a nice opportunity to use them.
We'll keep you posted!
Thanks again!!!
robync
We'll keep you posted!
Thanks again!!!
robync
Oct 20th, 2009, 12:32 PM
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Hi robync,
I'm in a similar spot as you, just a few months ahead in the process. As others have mentioned, with the help of this forum (and others) you can easily plan this trip yourself, the internet certainly has leveled the playing field in this regard. In fact, dealing with the deluge of information will be the biggest challenge. At this point, it certainly seems like you are at the most basic stage; deciding where to go. Don't worry, you have plenty of time to work through this, though. Here's some tips to hopefully help you manage the process. First, don't worry about any details at this point, work on a rough, high-level plan by addressing these areas:
1. Where to go? What countries/cities are you most interested in? Don't try to take on too much, constantly packing, traveling, unpacking, etc.. can really eat into your vacation time. Pick up a Michelin map of Europe. They are great at showing travel distances, etc… That will help you gain an appreciation of how far different locations are from each other. To an American, Europe may seem relatively compact, but it is still a huge land mass, so traveling between Paris and Barcelona, for example, is still a full day's journey.
2. When to go and for how long? Closely related to the 1st item and largely dependent on work schedules, etc… But, May and June seem to be very nice times to travel, July and August are busier from what I've heard. Weather may be a concern depending on your destinations, though. Remember, for us Americans, allow one full day for getting there and one full day for return, which turns a two week vacation into just 12 days.
3. How to get around while in Europe. Options abound, here. From flying, train, to rental car. Again, refer to step 1 for guidance, but keep an open mind.
4. Where to stay. Hotels are always an option, but apartment rentals may prove both more convenient and more cost effective.
Once you have the basics worked out, then you can dive into the details. It may seem overwhelming at first, but keep good notes and keep good track of the info you find. If you or a family member who's helping to plan the trip is computer savvy, here are some other tips:
1. Try a program called EverNote (http://www.evernote.com/). This lets you save notes from any computer to a common account. See a helpful article on a website? Send it to Evernote.
2. Use RSS feeds. I use the Google news reader (http://www.google.com/reader). I subscribe to RSS feeds for forum sites such as this one, as well as airfare updates and other travel deal websites. Then, in one place, I can track hundreds of updates. Very handy.
3. Bing.com travel and Kayak.com – my favorite airfare research sites.
4. Seat 61 - http://www.seat61.com/ learn about rail travel in Europe.
5. Microsoft Excel (or other spreadsheet) – keep track of cost estimates, your budget planning, track links, travel deals, etc… basically, a great tool to stay on top of your planning.
6. Finally, as you're probably well aware of by now, there are scores of very helpful people in these forums Read up on other people's experiences (trip reports from destinations of interest are a great planning tool). Don't be afraid to ask for help, and don't assume something will be too difficult.
Finally, last piece of advice – enjoy the planning process. The planning process itself is a great learning adventure, so hopefully you'll find it fun, too.
I'm in a similar spot as you, just a few months ahead in the process. As others have mentioned, with the help of this forum (and others) you can easily plan this trip yourself, the internet certainly has leveled the playing field in this regard. In fact, dealing with the deluge of information will be the biggest challenge. At this point, it certainly seems like you are at the most basic stage; deciding where to go. Don't worry, you have plenty of time to work through this, though. Here's some tips to hopefully help you manage the process. First, don't worry about any details at this point, work on a rough, high-level plan by addressing these areas:
1. Where to go? What countries/cities are you most interested in? Don't try to take on too much, constantly packing, traveling, unpacking, etc.. can really eat into your vacation time. Pick up a Michelin map of Europe. They are great at showing travel distances, etc… That will help you gain an appreciation of how far different locations are from each other. To an American, Europe may seem relatively compact, but it is still a huge land mass, so traveling between Paris and Barcelona, for example, is still a full day's journey.
2. When to go and for how long? Closely related to the 1st item and largely dependent on work schedules, etc… But, May and June seem to be very nice times to travel, July and August are busier from what I've heard. Weather may be a concern depending on your destinations, though. Remember, for us Americans, allow one full day for getting there and one full day for return, which turns a two week vacation into just 12 days.
3. How to get around while in Europe. Options abound, here. From flying, train, to rental car. Again, refer to step 1 for guidance, but keep an open mind.
4. Where to stay. Hotels are always an option, but apartment rentals may prove both more convenient and more cost effective.
Once you have the basics worked out, then you can dive into the details. It may seem overwhelming at first, but keep good notes and keep good track of the info you find. If you or a family member who's helping to plan the trip is computer savvy, here are some other tips:
1. Try a program called EverNote (http://www.evernote.com/). This lets you save notes from any computer to a common account. See a helpful article on a website? Send it to Evernote.
2. Use RSS feeds. I use the Google news reader (http://www.google.com/reader). I subscribe to RSS feeds for forum sites such as this one, as well as airfare updates and other travel deal websites. Then, in one place, I can track hundreds of updates. Very handy.
3. Bing.com travel and Kayak.com – my favorite airfare research sites.
4. Seat 61 - http://www.seat61.com/ learn about rail travel in Europe.
5. Microsoft Excel (or other spreadsheet) – keep track of cost estimates, your budget planning, track links, travel deals, etc… basically, a great tool to stay on top of your planning.
6. Finally, as you're probably well aware of by now, there are scores of very helpful people in these forums Read up on other people's experiences (trip reports from destinations of interest are a great planning tool). Don't be afraid to ask for help, and don't assume something will be too difficult.
Finally, last piece of advice – enjoy the planning process. The planning process itself is a great learning adventure, so hopefully you'll find it fun, too.
Oct 21st, 2009, 05:37 AM
#50
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If you have a couple weeks for a first trip recommend London, Paris, Rome and Venice. Three or four days each. On your own is more fun, less constrained, and saves major, major $. Fly in and out of London. Then book Ryanair to get to and from the other three cities. The only challenge then is hotels but they can be booked easily online and there are lots of suggestions on this forum and others including prices.
Oct 21st, 2009, 11:17 AM
#51
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I would not neglect taking the train and making your own tour - European trains are so so modern and frequent and nice... kids your age will find tons of peers their age riding the trains as well - kids from all over the world. They could get Youthpasses for ages under 26 and they'd sit in 2nd class - you could get 1st class Eurailpasses - only option for those over 25 and sit in first class or you all could get Saverpasses and all sit in 1st class. Anyway trains whisk you at speeds of up to nearly 200mph right into the city centres, where cars are a liability - most city centres are off-limits to private cars and parking is problematic often and expensive if found. You can also experience overnight trains that seem to link any two cities far enough removed. I've had over 100 railpasses and can attest to how easy it is to use the European train system so consider that. For tons of info on planning European rail trips i always point out these superb info-packed sources - www.ricksteves.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.seat61.com and for schedules www.bahn.de - schedules for all european trains and the easiest one i have seen to use. With kids that age i would include a stop in the fabled Jungfrau area near Interlaken - lots of folks their age there and many wonderful excursions from mountain biking to para gliding to hiking to thrilling aerial cableways, etc.
Oct 22nd, 2009, 05:49 AM
#52
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griz_fan, great tips! I would say we tend to be self-guided travelers and really enjoy that. With the help of this and many other travel forums you can get great guidance on wonderful guides within the various cities you ultimately will visit. We highly recommend a guide for the sites that interest you the most. One other little tip to add to griz's great list, we set up "folders" in our Yahoo email {ex: 2009 flight (folder) and 2009 trip info (folder)} and then we can access that from anywhere. Since my hubby and I both work on the trip plans it is wonderful for us at home or at work. And, when overseas we can access all that same info-something that has truly come in handy for us. Happy travels, you will find that the planning is a good part of the joy of travel!
Oct 22nd, 2009, 07:45 AM
#53
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Just as an aside, although RS does tend to 'dumb down' his
info on the shows, on his tours the guides are excellent -
knowledgeable local people plus a 'head' guide that stay w/
the tour for the duration.
We're independent travellers and for the countries mentioned
and the ages of your kids I wouldn't hesitate to do my own
itinerary.....plus it will give your family a ton of memories.
info on the shows, on his tours the guides are excellent -
knowledgeable local people plus a 'head' guide that stay w/
the tour for the duration.
We're independent travellers and for the countries mentioned
and the ages of your kids I wouldn't hesitate to do my own
itinerary.....plus it will give your family a ton of memories.
Oct 22nd, 2009, 08:47 AM
#54
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<i>robync - We were pursuing the tour idea because it seems like it would be a logistical nightmare to plot out accommodations in several foreign countries while attempting to maneuver self guided tours</i>
It's not that hard. I would plan your own trip. Narrow down what you think is right for two weeks (3 or 4 places max and not too far from one another). Then if the logistics of calling hotels (they all speak English) or reserving trains or budget inter-European flights seems daunting, simply get a travel agent to help you. They will put togetherr the trip you want and will handle all the hotel and transportatin details.
It's not that hard. I would plan your own trip. Narrow down what you think is right for two weeks (3 or 4 places max and not too far from one another). Then if the logistics of calling hotels (they all speak English) or reserving trains or budget inter-European flights seems daunting, simply get a travel agent to help you. They will put togetherr the trip you want and will handle all the hotel and transportatin details.
Oct 22nd, 2009, 09:03 AM
#55
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All good info so far.
As a swag...one trip that would be logistically easier to plan....London/Paris/Amsterdam, probably in thar order.
London as a starting point to get your "europe legs", no language issues, more culturally alike..an easy way to start a longer holiday.
There are high speed train directly linking these locations
There is a lot of info on this site about appartment and hotels for these locations
These are locations where you could spend all of your time, or do a city/country combo,either as a day trip or extended tour. You could train or train/car or car to see countryside
All of these cities have art, architecture, interesting food, good transport, english speakers (at some level), festivals, local tours,etc..
Three seems like a nice number. I've been to London and Paris several times, and can easily fill more time. Amsterdam a coouple of times, and found that 3 days or so covered what I wanted to see.
I like Vienna and Austria, and did one city/country by car trip a few years back.
As a swag...one trip that would be logistically easier to plan....London/Paris/Amsterdam, probably in thar order.
London as a starting point to get your "europe legs", no language issues, more culturally alike..an easy way to start a longer holiday.
There are high speed train directly linking these locations
There is a lot of info on this site about appartment and hotels for these locations
These are locations where you could spend all of your time, or do a city/country combo,either as a day trip or extended tour. You could train or train/car or car to see countryside
All of these cities have art, architecture, interesting food, good transport, english speakers (at some level), festivals, local tours,etc..
Three seems like a nice number. I've been to London and Paris several times, and can easily fill more time. Amsterdam a coouple of times, and found that 3 days or so covered what I wanted to see.
I like Vienna and Austria, and did one city/country by car trip a few years back.
Oct 23rd, 2009, 03:42 AM
#56
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Our 'Grand Tour' of Europe with Rick Steves included six teens. They had a blast. This is definitely not a trip for the sedentary middle-aged person. It is active and energetic. While it isn't difficult to travel on your own, I do so based on the education and experience that I acquired on my first trip to Europe with the Rick Steves organization. Putting together a trip on your own is time consuming. If you have the time, go for it.
Oct 23rd, 2009, 06:55 AM
#57
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Yes it can be daunting for the average Joe who has never been abroad to plan all the details of a European trip - even though this may seem a snap to veteran travelers. But as several have said they did take a group tour the first time and then launched out on their own after knowing the ropes a bit and gaining confidence that things like the language barrier is not really much a problem.
If not taking a group trip means not going then by all means do the escorted tour but also look for a tour company that provides ample on your own time and not one that is on a tour bus all day and night.
If not taking a group trip means not going then by all means do the escorted tour but also look for a tour company that provides ample on your own time and not one that is on a tour bus all day and night.
Oct 24th, 2009, 12:56 PM
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Hi Robyn,
You sound just like me! A few notes...there are a lot of great itineraries on here! A lot of your travel guides are going to give you the same information for each country! You really have to decide what you want to see.
I was in Europe 10 years ago (when I was 20) and did a couple guided tours because I didn't know what I was doing. They were interesting, but on a few I was bored to tears. If you take a tour, find a short one that is an "overview" of a city, and then revisit the places you want to spend more time in.
I'm going through a similar planning situation now! I am putting together a trip for next summer also, but I am going for 2 months, and I have 11 countries on my list! It's a lot, but it's doable (especially because I have already seen some places). It's a lot of work, but my best advice is to enjoy the planning process. Get your family in on it, if they are interested. I don't think planning this far in advance is too early! I'm starting about 8 months in advance and I am using an Excel spreadsheet for all my information (comparing airfare from different websites, comparing hotel rates, etc.)
As far as flying, I live in Los Angeles, and I think you said something about flying out of LAX. When I started planning, everyone said, "Don't pay more than $500 to London from LA." Honestly, though, I haven't found anything for much UNDER $600. I think that sounds reasonable. I've found $600 flights to Ireland also. (I know it's not on your itinerary, but just to give you an idea). The further east you go, the more expensive it seems the flights are. I think flying into major hubs rather than smaller or more obscure cities will help reduce your cost! That's just IMO.
Hope that helps! Enjoy your planning, and keep us posted!
You sound just like me! A few notes...there are a lot of great itineraries on here! A lot of your travel guides are going to give you the same information for each country! You really have to decide what you want to see.
I was in Europe 10 years ago (when I was 20) and did a couple guided tours because I didn't know what I was doing. They were interesting, but on a few I was bored to tears. If you take a tour, find a short one that is an "overview" of a city, and then revisit the places you want to spend more time in.
I'm going through a similar planning situation now! I am putting together a trip for next summer also, but I am going for 2 months, and I have 11 countries on my list! It's a lot, but it's doable (especially because I have already seen some places). It's a lot of work, but my best advice is to enjoy the planning process. Get your family in on it, if they are interested. I don't think planning this far in advance is too early! I'm starting about 8 months in advance and I am using an Excel spreadsheet for all my information (comparing airfare from different websites, comparing hotel rates, etc.)
As far as flying, I live in Los Angeles, and I think you said something about flying out of LAX. When I started planning, everyone said, "Don't pay more than $500 to London from LA." Honestly, though, I haven't found anything for much UNDER $600. I think that sounds reasonable. I've found $600 flights to Ireland also. (I know it's not on your itinerary, but just to give you an idea). The further east you go, the more expensive it seems the flights are. I think flying into major hubs rather than smaller or more obscure cities will help reduce your cost! That's just IMO.
Hope that helps! Enjoy your planning, and keep us posted!
Oct 24th, 2009, 11:57 PM
#59
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Hi everyone:
Thanks for all of the new entries. I'm saving these in my inbox to refer to. We're still debating between a tour v going on our own. Are there any particular tour companies that you've had success with such as Rick Steve's? Cosmos? Others?
Thanks again, robync
Thanks for all of the new entries. I'm saving these in my inbox to refer to. We're still debating between a tour v going on our own. Are there any particular tour companies that you've had success with such as Rick Steve's? Cosmos? Others?
Thanks again, robync
Oct 25th, 2009, 01:05 AM
#60
Hi; Keep in mind www.pavlustravel.com/ as they work with many companies, such as Cosmos. They discount the price, usually by 10% or more. Richard
