I’ve enjoyed your thread, Mel, I know I’ll never get to Portugal, and TR’s are my way to ‘see the world’.
Glad you shared about crowds, I remember feeling suffocated in Milan and Florence and realising that as much as I want to visit, I’m going to stick with quieter destinations.

I checked ‘availability’ calendars for accommodation in some of my wish list places in Europe and full until end October!!
A few random dates free but essentially this year looks packed.

Karen, we arrived at the castle just before 11. Later than we'd normally go to an attraction, but we had COVID tests to get out of the way first.

Just curious. If Lisbon wasn't crowded, do you think you would have liked the city? Did you enjoy the sites you saw?

Yes, we enjoyed what we saw for the most part but the sheer number of people really put us off. And the litter and graffiti (not to be confused with street art) and everything that comes with masses of humanity - noise, traffic, beggars, homelessness, etc . Big, crowded dirty cities never have been our thing, but we were willing to give it a go.

"Returned to apartment to hide from people and the wind until we leave tomorrow.

Actually looking forward to going home and leaving this craziness behind. We've also decided to cancel our trip to Austria and Germany in early June; unwilling to chance that that they too will be overrun with pent up demand."

Yep. I so get that! But we are so grateful that you did give it a go this time; I just love seeing your photos. But I will more enjoy seeing your photos from your vacations that feed your spirit and make your soul soar! Anyway... until your next trip to peaceful spots!

s

I wonder if Lisbon has changed since we were there in 2018. We didn't see any litter (at least nothing significant) and would never have described Lisbon as dirty. We didn't see beggars and homeless people, either. Of course, there will always be noise and traffic in cities.

Melnq8, your trip to Portugal may've had its ups and downs (I know, literally!), but your photos have been fabulous and it's very exciting to see them! If you've had some disappointments with the trip, it certainly doesn't show in the gorgeous pix you've posted.Thank you so much - I so appreciate the efforts you've made to share your trip with us as you went along.

I will admit to some moments of trepidation about my own upcoming trip but I'm hopeful we'll find our way, and, as NYers, I'm probably more used to city grittiness and crowds (or well primed to avoid them!). So I also appreciate the reassurances from Maribel, KarenWoo, mike1728, and others who have posted their thoughts and suggestions. There are a number of personal family issues I'm involved in that have added a layer of stress, so that has taken its toll on me. And I'm still a bit frustrated that we have to take a test to enter Portugal -- especially since it seems that the airlines don't bother to check the results more than half the time - at best! But we will do it - we certainly don't want to be the ones caught without them.

I'm so sad that your reaction to Lisbon was "Big, crowded dirty". Of course, I haven't been there for a while, and we all see things through our own filters, but Lisbon is one of my favorite cities. I never thought of it as big, but my standard for big is London and New York (and lets not get started on the Asian mega-cities). Of course it's not as clean as Vienna, for instance - you always know you've arrived in Switzerland or Austria when you cross the border - but it didn't strike me as excessively dirty. I like a city that feels like a city. You have got me worried about the crowds, though. My previous go-to hotel was just off Praca dos Restauradores, sounds like I need to find another.

thursdaysd,
I believe I remember the hotel where you stayed. It was the Florescente, correct? Or was it the VIP Eden that now gets mixed reviews?.
The area around Praça dos Restauradores and between it and Rossio (Praça Dom Pedro IV) has become increasingly busy and crowded over the years. We've seen the change incrementally and last month passed by it daily.

As I've mentioned here often, the dividing line between the worst of the noise, traffic, "tourist tat" shops, fast food joints, human statues, mediocre restaurants with buskers and the calm and serenity of more "manicured" Lisbon starts at the bottom of Avenida da Liberdade and up from there.
I remember (or think I do) that KarenWoo stayed at the Real Palácio, up near Eduardo VII Park. That area gives me a completely different perspective of the city, as does the area just south of, and to the east or west of, Marqués de Pombal square.

I think your enjoyment of Lisbon may just be a function now of where you stay. We traveled all over the city to revisit different neighborhoods, and we saw a distinct difference, the further away we removed ourselves from the tourist-congested Baixa area.

In Chiado, for example, we would probably no longer rent the apartment directly on Praça Luis de Camões due to the noise and bustle of that particular square, but would still feel comfortable staying around the Praça do Carmo, next to the ruins of the Convento do Carmo, on the Largo do Carmo or around it.

(I can't remember where your apartment sits, progol, but I think it might be in that area of Chiado)

I would urge anyone when renting an airbnb to use the Google street view function to see what your immediate vicinity will look like before making your decision. There are streets in the city that have been nicely "finished" or "gentrified" or "beautified" and some that still consist of derelict buildings that still cry out for some TLC, like in any large city. And there is a great deal of construction going on all over Lisbon.

Just some thoughts...

Yes, it was the Residencial Florescente. I looked it up recently and discovered it had gone up market. Last time I was there it had added a restaurant to the breakfast room, and now it has a pool. Of course, the prices have gone up accordingly. It was a block or so off the Praca and only just below the Hard Rock Cafe, so the location was really convenient for the airport bus and for public transport (and the Bom Jardim!). I did spend a couple of nights at the Eden, and was definitely not impressed, but that was 2008. If I could afford it I would stay at the Avenida Palace, of course.... As it is, looks like a need a new Lisbon "home".

thursdaysd,
I thought it was the Residential Florescente. We passed it daily on our "back way" walk north, up to our hotel. I can understand its popularity given its convenient location for public transport, the train to Sintra, and for piri piri chicken at Bomjardim.
(The Aerobus isn't running this year.)
I just checked the rates there for November with my Genius Level 3 discount on booking.com and on the hotel's own web page. It's actually still a good value for a newly renovated 4-star hotel, given comparable 4-star hotel prices. Another new hotel next to it is the Lisbon Wine Hotel but not any cheaper.

Our favorite "home", the Hotel Britânia has also upped its price since our March stay, when they graciously offered us the same rate as the one booked when we had to cancel in Dec. Hotel rates have increased significantly this year in Lisbon given its status in 2022 as a "hot destination".

Hi Maribel, We are staying at the Altis Avenida hotel in September. Interested on your thoughts on that location ... hopefully ok, since I'm not going to change. Interesting report Melnq. Usually when crowds see our group, they steer clear of us. (:

Well, maitaitom.......enjoy the splendid views from their Rossio roof top terrace bar/restaurant!, since you're not going to change. The hotel sits directly on Rossio (Praça Dom Pedro IV), right across from Rossio station.
One day when we needed a pick-me-up because we were flagging and seeking a rest before our last climb, we went up to the terrace for the views, chill out music and an expensive drink--not expensive by LA/Seattle standards, of course, but by Lisbon local standards---it's a 5-star hotel, after all. We didn't see the rooms but we did enjoy our Alvarinho.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...c8421724e.jpeg
Rossio square on a Sunday morning--getting an early start to beat the crowds

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...4bc19337e.jpeg
Views from the Altis Avenida roof top bar


https://www.therooftopguide.com/blog...ar-lisbon.html

It seems from what you're saying we will need a lot of Alvarinho to put up with the crowds near our hotel. Well, it could make for a good story, unless I find a less busy area. It looked like a good choice when I made it. In any case, it will acclimate us to the crowds that we'll face in Sintra.

maitaitom,
If you got a good rate when you booked it, just keep it.
We didn't have time to check out the rooms, but given the room amenities (Nespresso machines!!, robes, etc.) they should be extremely comfortable. The décor of the rooftop gastrobar is gorgeous--molto chic. And the wine list was curated by the sommelier of the Michelin-starred Feitoria in the Altis Belém--hence, our world class alvarinho:)

Maribel, you are right in that we stayed at the Real Palacio Hotel. It was about a 10-minute walk to the Gulbenkian, and located in a very, very quiet neighborhood. In 2018 we paid $170 for a good--sized room with a large bathroom, including a delicious breakfast buffet. We enjoyed our walks down Ave Liberdade to the city center. About a 20-25 minute walk. As I previously mentioned, I didn't recommend our hotel when people were looking for hotel suggestions because everyone wanted to be close to the center. But maybe now with the increase in crowds, that may change.

<< In Chiado, for example, we would probably no longer rent the apartment directly on Praça Luis de Camões due to the noise and bustle of that particular square, but would still feel comfortable staying around the Praça do Carmo, next to the ruins of the Convento do Carmo, on the Largo do Carmo or around it.

(I can't remember where your apartment sits, progol, but I think it might be in that area of Chiado)>>

We are on Rua Nova do Almada, so off Rue Garrett and just a few minutes walk from Largo do Carmo. I hope it’s reasonably quiet! We’re on the 5th floor 🤞🤞🤞

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...b5b7293f2.jpeg

progol,
I like that area.:tu:

Progol, I like that area too!

Whew!

Whew is right! Thank you Maribel and Helena!

progol,
"A Vida Portuguesa" is just a short hop away as well as "Alcôa" and "Castro" for a double whammy of nata!

maitaitom,
Here's your alvarinho!

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...d4bf1c84f.jpeg
From the Minho, cheers!

Just read a travel article on Fodors. Tourism to Europe is predicted to be 600% higher this summer than last summer. And Lisbon is rated amongst the top 10 most popular European destinations for this summer!

<<A Vida Portuguesa" is just a short hop away as well as "Alcôa" and "Castro" for a double whammy of nata!>>

Saved on my map! Just a few minutes away!

We've used this company 3 times to rent apartments in Lisbon. The first two times, everything went great; in a week I'll let you know how time #3 goes. Here's the link for the specific apartment, which is at top of Ave De Liberdade by Pombal metro.

https://www.homing.com.pt/en/rentals...58.html?head=1

So far we've been very happy with our lodgings, I booked us in apartments, averaging $100 night. I get up early so I have a spot to read and have coffee without disturbing spouse.

Mel, I fully appreciate the thoughts on crowds and my pet peeve: spray paint graffiti. Was shocked when I first saw it in Europe, especially near some wonderful sights. We all forget that WE as travelers are a part of those large crowds we all detest. We look from the outside at these crazy crowds, not realizing that there are multiple others looking at us in the same fashion :). In any event, a lot as been discussed about the negativity of the crowds we experience in our selected European destinations. Full disclaimer: I hate crowds and even worse "ugly Americans" . Some of us do not travel well, just a fact. I remember cringing
when in a nice, but not expensive restaurant in St. Remy, France and hearing from another table in a loud voice "Where's the English menu". Fortunately we (me and the better half) have experienced years ago all the major European cities and the major sites and now try to concentrate on lesser visited areas. We are only returning to Lisbon as we arrive there and for the first time in years not renting a car, so train travel based out of Lisbon this May. Our usual base in Portugal has been Ericieira, great beaches, authentic old feel village, great-reasonably priced meals, friendly people, and NO crowds. Mel, did the crowds bother you so much as to cancel your Austria trip? that's bad. We depart for Zahara de los Atunes, Spain in September (10th year) which is a another low tourist area but on a great beach with a great local feel, but last year unfortunately the crowds were up and vandals had spray painted all over the beaches best area (they spray painted an old WWII pillbox) which is situated on a famous part of the beach

We're back home now, woke up at the crack of dawn. Let the jet lag begin.

I'd never intended this to be a trip report, and have taken copious notes in the hopes of writing up the details over the next few weeks. I just found so many great photo opportunities that I thought I'd share some as I went and it sort of evolved into a daily recap. It seems others have taken the opportunity to share their photos as well.

progol - about those COVID tests - they are an absolute breeze on both ends (and free) and we definitely had to show our results on entry and exit. We uploaded them to the UA site both times, but we still had to produce them to airline staff on entry and exit from Portugal.

The US mask mandate was lifted a few days ago and so naturally we saw more people without them than with on the flights home. Leaving Portugal everyone had to wear one until after take-off and then then many removed them for good. It reminded me of our many flights into and out of the Middle East, where the Muslim women would shed their abayas the minute they sat down on the plane as suddenly the rules no longer applied. And those of us who'd order a drink the minute we were out of Arabian air space....just because we could.

The Lisbon airport was just as chaotic as the city itself - people in their droves in line for COVID test checks, check-in, security and then finally passport control - which was insanely busy - we'd allowed plenty of time so we could visit the Tap lounge for a bite to eat - we arrived the airport 3.5 hours before our flight and were glad we did - the Rossio metro doesn't even open until minutes before the first train at 6:32 am. And the UA check in desk doesn't open until 7:15 am. So progol - keep that in mind with your upcoming trip. The airport was a zoo and you will need plenty of time. FWIW, there was a strike planned for today (train transit) so we were glad we left when we did.

A note about the airport - passport control is the last step before going to the gates and many people seemed to misjudge how long this would take - we'd asked in the lounge how long we needed and were told to allow about 30 minutes which we did - others were scrambling to get to their flights as they didn't expect long lines at passport control. Here's what it looked like. There was a whole lot of panic through here.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...37852a790b.jpg

It seems people want to blame our experience on our choice of apartment location, and that very much was not the case. Yes, we were in a busy area, but our apartment was excellent and very quiet thanks to double glazing and thick walls. There were buses literally outside our front door as well as a COVID testing center. Rossio metro was mere feet away. It was extremely convenient.

With the exception of the park and a few sections of Liberdade, Lisbon was heaving everywhere we went - be it Baixa, Chiado, Estrela, Cabre Sodre, Bairro Alto or Belem. And of course the things people go to Lisbon to see - the monuments, the museums, the castles, the monasteries - were all flat out busy.

Mike - yes, the crowds bothered us so much that we feel we need to cancel our Germany and Austria trip.

The trip has felt sort of doomed from the start anyway.

It was initially planned with a girlfriend and included Salzburg, Innsbruck, and Garmisch - places I'd usually avoid in the summer but thought she might like to see - then I learned about the G7 conference in Garmisch during our dates so switched to Mittenwald - then my friend had to cancel, so my husband decided to come along instead. Then UA changed our flights several times and I've had to cancel and rebook accommodation due to the changes. Then the crowds in Lisbon (and Newark and Denver airports) just made us shudder. I think the travel gods are trying to tell me something, so I've decided to listen.

We'll stay home this summer and plan on a long trip to Switzerland in the fall instead.

Welcome home, Mel, I'm glad you made it home in one piece. Your posts have been invaluable, even if a little worrying, but I'm as prepared as I can be for the trip. I'm hopeful that with our city armor and our mental preparation, we'll be able to deal with or avoid the worst of the crowds.

I've been following threads about the crowds at Lisbon Airport on TA so am well aware how crowded it can get; we fly home from Porto, so perhaps our return trip will be a bit easier, but I will make sure that we give ourselves plenty of time when we do return. We are also on United and leave from Newark, but in the early evening, so will make sure we arrive plenty early there, too. I get antsy enough on the day of departure, so will want to be there as early as possible. And I'd like to be able to take advantage of the lounge just because we can!

I've already booked our return trip COVID tests at Farmacia Moreno in Porto! And I'm prepared for taking the tests here in NYC before we go; we also fly United, and the Travel-Ready section on the United site makes it very clear that the tests are required. As of now, it looks like the Passenger Locator form has been dropped, so one less piece of paper that needs to be dealt with (no biggie, anyway). And it looks like the mask mandate has been dropped for Portugal, except on transportation, medical and other specific locations, so it'll be interesting to see how that unfolds. I plan on wearing my mask where there are large crowds anyway.

Thank you again for all your wonderful photos and your daily updates, both good and bad.

We arrived in Porto and it was a breeze, so hopefully that will be the case for you as well progol.

I hadn't heard about Portugal dropping the mask mandate - compliance was stellar and people were quick to point out any infractions. We didn't need the US attestation form which is supposedly still required - didn't need it back in October either so not sure why it's still showing on the US gov sites. We wore our masks diligently, even in crowded outdoor areas of which there were many.

I wouldn't dare step foot on a Portuguese bus without a mask as they can be butt-to-butt, so glad they haven't dropped that yet. It was sort of funny, the messages everywhere to stay two meters apart, and then people would be packed on buses and into small restaurants like Portuguese sardines.

We didn't need to book our return COVID tests - just popped in the day before and walked right in. I saw many testing sites in Porto too.

The Passenger Locator form was easy enough to upload to the US site, wasn't aware they'd dropped that either, but a lot can happen in a short period time as anyone planning a trip can attest.

I hope you have a wonderful trip.

Hi, Mel,
They JUST dropped the mask mandate and need for passenger locator form as of today; the masks are still required on transportation, but won't be required in restaurants or, I imagine, tourist sites. And, as far as I know, no changes to the testing requirements.

Just a clarifying - we arrive in Lisbon and leave from Porto. I'm prepared for long lines arriving in Lisbon, though, fingers crossed, it won't be too bad when we arrive. I've read anywhere from 30 minutes to 4 hours, with the large majority of the those reporting saying it takes between 1-2 hours.

Fingers crossed! And thank you for the good wishes!

We met an American woman who said it took her five hours to get through the Lisbon airport on arrival. She said "never again".

No idea why it's taking so long, but hope you have better luck.

Customs official: "Any tiles to declare maam?"
Mel (glancing sideways at large bag at her feet overstuffed with what appears to be countless hand-sized squares; similar bulges in her suitcase are also evident): "U-Um......."
Customs official (steps back then barks into hand-held device): "Yeah HQ--we're gonna need a tile-sniffing dog here. Forthwith please."

I am done. the beagle

I loved seeing Portugal through your eyes, really enjoyed your report... the good, the gritty and the crowds and the tiles. I'm thrilled to hear you're going to Switzerland in the Fall because you take wonderful photos!! And I hope to make it there in 2023 also see my dad in the Philippines which is probably what I want to do first, it's been a while since I've been back.

This thread has so much info I can just follow it when it's my turn to go to Portugal, definitely Porto. Thank you!

Great song, zebec!

Thank you too DGCommittee - the trip to Switzerland was booked before we left for Portugal - except for flights. I don't think I've ever put together an itinerary and booked accommodation before booking flights. Flights to Zurich from our neck of the woods are a bit crazy right now - both in price and routing. Hope things settle a bit in the upcoming months. Hoping to include a few weeks in Spain with a girlfriend tacked on to the Swiss trip, so things might get even more convoluted.

Here's hoping your 2023 trip comes to fruition.

And zebec - funny you mention Customs - in Newark they didn't even ask what we were were bringing in. Not that we had much, but still it seemed odd.

Thanks to all of Fodor's wonderful contributors! Many of you have helped us plan excellent trips in the past. We are considering a trip to Portugal in the late Fall if I can recover from a knee injury, as I am somewhat apprehensive on my navigation of the streets and hills. Wishing Progol a fabulous trip and appreciate everyone's contributions, always!

Portugal Trip in May 2022
 

Really enjoyed your photos! We are going on a trip starting May 20. This trip has been cancelled/postponed twice! I am hoping you can recommend restaurants as the Fodors books are a little outdated right now. We usually depend on the books! So, we will be in Lisbon and will need a Dinner or Lunch (or Tapas) restaurant. Our hotel is the Corinthian in Lisbon and we are fine with walking or public transportation but any suggestions you have will be greatly appreciated. We will also be in Lisbon if you have any thoughts on that area. I think our tour includes dinners there but sometimes it is nice to skip the group dinner and go off on our own!

Thanks in advance for your advice!

Portugal Trip in May 2022
 

Really enjoyed your photos! We are going on a trip starting May 20. This trip has been cancelled/postponed twice! I am hoping you can recommend restaurants as the Fodors books are a little outdated right now. We usually depend on the books! So, we will be in Lisbon and will need a Dinner or Lunch (or Tapas) restaurant. Our hotel is the Corinthian in Lisbon and we are fine with walking or public transportation but any suggestions you have will be greatly appreciated. We will also be in Lisbon if you have any thoughts on that area. I think our tour includes dinners there but sometimes it is nice to skip the group dinner and go off on our own!

Thanks in advance for your advice!

Sue54 -

Maribel is our resident Portugal expert and she'll be much more helpful than myself for food recommendations. I'm a fussy eater, but even my non-fussy eater husband didn't care much for the Portuguese food we tried. We gave up early on and sought out Italian and Indian restaurants instead.

We absolutely could not fault the wine though!

I am so sorry to hear about the excessive crowds in Lisbon due to cruise ships. The city should look at Venice and how they have handled this problem. We had such a wonderful stay in Lisbon and hope it can solve this problem.

To be aware of the increasingly heavy cruise ship traffic, you can monitor
https://crew-center.com/lisbon-portu...-ship-schedule
and
https://www.cruisemapper.com/ports/l...rt-65#schedule

but the immediate future doesn't look proving for fewer crowds, but quite the contrary.