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As mentioned earlier, we're not really museum people.
How in the world did you get that Seagull picture in Porto. !! Percy - that bird was literally posing:) We re-traced our steps from last night and walked up that crazy steep hill that runs alongside Elevador da Gloria for an encore dinner at Gandhi Palace in Bairro Alto - we took in the views from the nearby viewing platform en route. After dinner we took a different route back to the apartment via the winding streets of Chiado and god knows where else - it was just one of those "let's follow this road and see where it goes". We then sought out Santa Justa Lift, and somehow, miraculously, found our way home, passing yet another canned sardine tourist shop - that makes one in every city we've visited. Much quieter on the streets today. Hope we're out of here before the next string of cruise ships arrive. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...ce912e3a2d.jpg Street art https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...96ef67ab11.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...0513fb3dd3.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...573878eb9e.jpg |
Mel--backsplash. I was also going to suggest that. A striking visual idea for sure.
I am done. the tilez |
Have yet to run across a missing toilet seat in Lisbon. But I've been wondering about the pantyhose - I've seen more pantyhose clad women here than I've seen since the 90's - is it a matter of what's old is new again? Some things don't need repeating, and pantyhose is one of them IMO.
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I'm currently in Madrid and have also noticed young women wearing pantyhose with short dresses or shorts. I probably wouldn't have noticed except for the lower "control top" portion being exposed lol.
We were in Lisbon in fall 2019. I regret not visiting the Carmo Convent and think you would get some great photos on a beautiful day. One morning we took a nice walk up to the Castelo de San Jorge, enjoyed the views and wandered over to the Igreja se Sao Vicente de Fora which was a very pleasant surprise. In the cloisters we loved the tiles depicting fables. |
Tiles, tiles, tiles...I loved the tile museum.
Didn't love the Time Out Market...not that we dared to dine there. It was crazy busy and we wanted nothing to do with a gazillion unmasked people dining at communal tables. Took a few photos and hightailed it out of there. Found a nice Italian place nearby for lunch, then eventually worked our way towards the LX Factory, which wasn't quite what we expected, but interesting none-the-less. Took a couple of buses that were full to the gills and very uncomfortable - we've worried about COVID a lot this trip and will get tested tomorrow for our return home on Thursday. Fingers and toes crossed. Had another near panic attack in a grocery store near our apartment - way too many people in too small a space. Felt like I couldn't breathe. I absolutely cannot imagine living here - read this morning that there are nine tourists for every one resident in Lisbon. OMFG. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...1f8c0ee27c.jpg Tile museum https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...97bed5009c.jpg Tile museum https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...a553ed2d84.jpg Tile museum https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...cc3c7165a5.jpg Tile Museum https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...25236adcbe.jpg Tile Museum https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...2978f09240.jpg Tile Museum https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...e626ca1cb3.jpg Tile Museum https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...f2eb484b98.jpg Tile Museum https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...23cbbe92db.jpg Okay then... https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...4c1f524e33.jpg Tile Museum https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...4f500d55eb.jpg Time Out Market...thanks but no https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...65f69dd844.jpg When one dessert just isn't enough https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...774303d84d.jpg Walking to LX Factory https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...61f27674b9.jpg LX Factory https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...282ecc846e.jpg LX Factory |
Nice photos, Mel! Glad you loved the Tile Museum.
I feel the same way as you do about the Time Out Market these days, especially during these covid times. This is what we found there on a very busy Sunday-No where to sit and enjoy a meal. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...a488ad5bd.jpeg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...4c894ef76.jpeg |
I'm currently in Madrid and have also noticed young women wearing pantyhose with short dresses or shorts. I probably wouldn't have noticed except for the lower "control top" portion being exposed lol.
Ha! Haven't seen that yet, but plenty of pantyhose encased legs. Just don't get it. Thought those horrible things were gone for good, but evidently not. |
I'm not surprised that Portugal is so crowded - it seems at least a third of the questions on this forum are questions about traveling in Portugal! I LOVED my trip there in 2018 and even details about the crowds are making me miss it. I'd go back in a heartbeat!
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The Tile Museum looks fantastic! And those desserts….yum! Looks good!
I really don’t understand why Portugal is more crowded than, say, Italy, another super popular place. I’m more than a little concerned about crowds given that we’re going in 2 weeks! Of course, we ARE city folk (live in NYC) so hope that we are more comfortable and able to better deal with crowds in Lisbon than Melnq8. Time Out doesn’t look like a place where we will eat but I do hope the rest of the city is not all crowds! Is Portugal the flavor of the month? |
I wonder whether the crowds are so bad because Portugal seemed to be one of the safer and easier countries to visit?
That said, those planning trips to Lisbon might want to check the cruise ship arrivals for their planned dates, e.g.: https://cruisedig.com/ports/lisbon-portugal/arrivals Sadly, looks like around 8,000 passengers arriving on the 21st... |
I agree with thursdaysd.
The visitors have coming flooding/ running back (sometimes literally:) ) in part because of the great success of their vigilant vaccination campaign. Portugal has one of the highest covid-19 vaccination rates in the world, and thus, people believe that it's one of the safer countries to visit right now. This is why we didn't cancel our March trip. Bookings for the late spring and summer are now almost back up to pre-pandemic levels. And there's been a great deal of foreign investment in Lisbon (and Porto), thus the construction cranes you find everywhere. Hotels being built everywhere you look in both cities. We used to check the cruise ship arrival log before planning a visit but stopped doing si, we gave up, only because we realized that cruise ships arrive (or did, pre-covid) almost daily, and almost all year long, even in the winter. The UK lines like Cunard and P& Oand the Italian Costa cruises dock in Lisbon then. I've lived in a major European city (Madrid), and until we moved to the Seattle suburbs, we lived within the city for 10 years and took our visitors regularly to the Pike Market and Space Needle during cruise season, which is a zoo, so I guess I'm more used to the teeming crowds, being a former city dweller. And Lisbon and Porto have been most affected by the cruise ship traffic, as have Barcelona and now Málaga. Portugal does have its quiet corners but one needs car to best seek them out: the western Algarve, west of Lagos and in its interior, the Alentejo Costa Vicentina (except for July-August), all of the Minho, Central Portugal, the schist villages, the National Park of Peneda-Gerês, the Arrábida Natural Park, the Douro Valley, the lovely town of Bragança, Castelo Rodrigo, etc. We're headed to the Silver Coast in October (Ericeira, the interior town of Caldas da Rainha, Peniche. and beyond to below Porto, and expect (hope) to find it peaceful then (surfers, yes) but no mega cruise ships. From today's The Portugal News (Jeff Bezos was in town this past weekend)- https://www.theportugalnews.com/news...bourhood/66490 |
I’m a city dweller, too, so crowds are the norm, but I’m also going to be a tourist in Portugal so am trying not to worry too much about it and know that we can find our way to the less-crowded spots, if need be. But I must admit I’m still a little nervous.
thursdaysd, looking at the cruise calendar is even more nervous-making! I’m actually stunned by how many people are back cruising again. When we were in Italy and Croatia in the fall, there was an occasional cruise ship, but clearly, the world is traveling again, for better or for worse! |
Originally Posted by memejs
(Post 17355246)
I'm not surprised that Portugal is so crowded - it seems at least a third of the questions on this forum are questions about traveling in Portugal! I LOVED my trip there in 2018 and even details about the crowds are making me miss it. I'd go back in a heartbeat!
The only place where we had to wait in line in 2018 was at the Jeronimos Monastery. We were there early in the morning, but they kept letting the large cruise ship tours in before we were allowed in. Maybe I have a higher tolerance for crowds, but the crowds in 2018 really didn't bother me. |
Speaking to the topic of crowds, we did stay in a quiet corner of Lisbon. We stayed at the Hotel Real Palacio, Rua Tomas Ribeiro, and really enjoyed our stay there. I don't recommend it to people who are looking to stay in the city center. But we enjoyed it because it is in a quiet location. The hotel is near the Marques de Pombal and Edward VII Park. We did walk downtown several times; it's about a 20-25 minute walk but we really enjoyed the walk down Ave Liberdade with its leafy trees and patterned cobblestones. And sometimes we took taxis which are so inexpensive. And there are metro stops nearby.
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progol,
I think that you'll be able to keep away from the worst of the crowds by avoiding the Baixa, where the cruise passengers first invade on their DIY walking tours and seem just to settle in there, not moving beyond that packed rectangle. You can seek out quieter neighborhoods: visiting the Museu Nacional de Arte Antiga in Santos (it has a nice café), the Estrela Basilica and its pretty, neighboring park Jardím da Estrela, the Gulbenkian coupled with the top of Eduardo VII park (tour buses park at the bottom), an Avenida da Liberdade stroll with a stop at the Casa Museu Medeiros e Almada (we had it to ourselves), the Tile Museum, the interesting Museu do Oriente in Alcántara. Our Alfama morning stroll wasn't too crowded (the tourists were packed on the tram 28 and the tuk tuks but not so much on the hilly lanes) and I don't think you'll find hordes at the São Vicente de Fora Monastery, the Ricardo do Espíritu Santo Silva Decorative Arts Museum or the National Pantheon, all in Alfama. |
Progol, you will find the Gulbenkian Museum quiet and the nearby area is quiet. The museum's cafe is a lovely place for a snack. The Coach Museum and the Mosteiro De Sao Vicente de Fora were quiet when we were there. In fact, we were the only ones at the Mosteiro. It was also quiet when we were exploring the Alfama District, especially once you get away from Castelo De S. Jorge.
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Yes, the Oriente museum is definitely worth seeing, in addition to the less well-known museums/houses I listed above. I also found the Parque das Nacoes area quiet, although the aquarium may now be popular. I'm a big fan of the Gulbenkian - don't miss the Lalique jewelry.
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thursdaysd,
I'm really glad that you listed the less well-known museums in your post, as I've never been to the Fronteira Palace and noticed your beautiful photo of it from your photo album. I've put it on my list. We didn't find huge crowds at the Coach Museum either--only a Road Scholar group that arrived at the same time we did. The cruise ship excursion bus crowds in Belém go straight to the Mosteiro dos Jerónimos at around 11 or slightly before, then to the Monument to the Discoveries, then to the Torre de Belém and often skip the Coach Museum. It's divided into the contemporary building with the largest group of (amazingly elaborate) carriages and the original museum housed in the former Royal Riding School with a smaller collection under its original frescoes. If pressed for time, you can concentrate on the major collection in the contemporary museum. You can reach it from the Cais do Sodré train station, the same station for the trains to Cascais. The train stop is located directly across from the Museu Nacional dos Coches. It's one of my favorite museums. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...51b5c75be.jpeg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...ab8ef0ca6.jpeg |
I think thursdayd is right...and that cruise calendar is frightening.
On our Belem day (a Tuesday) there will be 3 ships with more than 10,000 passengers. Sunday is not better, another 3 ships, another 10,000 people. Following Maribel's notes, we'll be at the Mosteiro dos Jerónimos doors before they open, so we can get in as early as possible. |
Yipe, the cruise calendar for your non-high season visit is overwhelming. Early bird=worm at Mosteiro dos Jerónimos.
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Maribel, thanks for the link to that great article. I agree with most of what the author writes. Glad we got to visit Portugal before the current onslaught of tourists. When we were in Lisbon the Time Out market was a bit busy but not packed like in these recent photos. The driver for our day trip through the Douro valley actually suggested that we look into living in Portugal based on the quality of life and cost of living.
mel - we LOVED the tile museum as well, much to our surprise. |
Originally Posted by Maribel
(Post 17355270)
I agree with thursdaysd.
Portugal does have its quiet corners but one needs car to best seek them out: the western Algarve, west of Lagos and in its interior, the Alentejo Costa Vicentina (except for July-August), all of the Minho, Central Portugal, the schist villages, the National Park of Peneda-Gerês, the Arrábida Natural Park, the Douro Valley, the lovely town of Bragança, Castelo Rodrigo, etc. I wouldn't plan a trip to one of the 'hottest' countries (judging by magazine articles and # of forum posts), visit the two biggest cities in that country, and expect tranquility. Over Easter. In an uber Catholic country, the little family shrines in the villages still have their candles lite, and all the crosses swathed in purple fabric. |
Originally Posted by bdokeefe
(Post 17355420)
This is our experience, we are currently in Viseu, and the crowds are not here. Ponte de Lima had more people with it being Easter Holiday. We were on a gardens tour yesterday and it was just my wife and I. A car is huge in beating the crowds.
I wouldn't plan a trip to one of the 'hottest' countries (judging by magazine articles and # of forum posts), visit the two biggest cities in that country, and expect tranquility. Over Easter. In an uber Catholic country, the little family shrines in the villages still have their candles lite, and all the crosses swathed in purple fabric. Where did you take your gardens tour? Viseu is another lovely Portuguese town with a pretty Pousada. |
Neither the Gulbenkian Museum or the Tile Museum were quiet this week.
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I wouldn't plan a trip to one of the 'hottest' countries (judging by magazine articles and # of forum posts), visit the two biggest cities in that country, and expect tranquility. Over Easter.
Easter was a definite oversight, but peak season in Portugal is June-August, so April made sense at the time. And this was our third attempt having had to cancel twice during COVID. I think even the Portuguese are surprised at the high numbers so early in the season. |
I really think the high numbers are due to people not being able to travel for 2 years, and now feeling safe to do so. Portugal is easy to get to, and has warmer temps and more sun in April than Northern/Central Europe. The cruise ship numbers are frightening!
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Great insight by all. In my opinion, as Maribel notes, Lisbon is large enough for a tourist to find some quiet areas not swarmed by tourists yet still being enjoyable. I guess if you are a first timer to Lisbon you want to visit the "must see" areas. As this will our second holiday to Lisbon in mid May we plan on concentrating on hopefully some of the more relaxed areas of the city. Based on info from Maribel we do plan on visiting the Casa Museu Medeiros and the Avenida da Liberdade area for strolling, exploring, and having lunch/vino. Another plan is to take the ferry from Cais do Sodre to Cacilhas (10 minute ferry across the Tagus). View the two navel vessels located there, one an old submarine and the other a 50 gun warship built in the 1840's. Cacilhas supposedly also has the best fresh fish restaurants in all of Lisbon at very reasonable prices. The church Igrega de Nossa Senhora also seems like a hidden jewel (of course full of the azulejos blue and white tiles). I wonder why folks would seek to have lunch at such places as the Time Out Market-complete tourist traps with as other have noted packed with hordes of visitors and foods geared exclusively to these hordes. With the hundreds of mom and pop owned restaurants in Lisbon cooking authentic fresh cooked local meals I just don't understand the need to visit such tourist warehouses.
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Times have certainly changed! When I wrote my Lisbon TR on Fodors back in 2008, people were commenting on how few Americans went to Portugal. I do blame the cruise ships for a lot of it, the same thing happened to Dubrovnik, which was off the radar when I first went in 2004, but was flooded with cruise ship passengers when I went back a few years later - I actually had to queue to get into the old town.
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Originally Posted by Melnq8
(Post 17355425)
I wouldn't plan a trip to one of the 'hottest' countries (judging by magazine articles and # of forum posts), visit the two biggest cities in that country, and expect tranquility. Over Easter.
Easter was a definite oversight, but peak season in Portugal is June-August, so April made sense at the time. And this was our third attempt having had to cancel twice during COVID. I think even the Portuguese are surprised at the high numbers so early in the season. The weather here has been a big plus, I don't mind missing the snow we've been apparently getting back home. |
Our last full day in Portugal got off to a leisurely start - we were tested for COVID at the testing site right outside our apartment door (there are some advantages to being in a tourist area). Seems even the testing sites aren't immune to graffiti.
The testing is free and took 30 minutes for printed results; it took us longer to upload them to the UA site than the entire testing process.We took the bus up to Castelo de S. Jorge, which saved us a big climb. Lots of honking and crazy driving antics in this city, cannot imagine having to drive here. Long line, but it went fast – great views, beautiful and vocal peacocks, including some chicks. The wind has been insane the past three days - not much fun up on the ramparts of the castle. Afterwards took the bus partway down the hill, stopped for gelato - continued walking down the narrow streets with even narrower sidewalks with trams and buses passing within inches. Wandered around, looking for a promising place to eat, giving the Baixa a wide berth – saw more cruise ships in port. Ended up in Chiado, which was also packed with people – we're so over people. Ended up at our new favorite Indian restaurant in Barrio Alto - had a quiet lunch. Returned to apartment to hide from people and the wind until we leave tomorrow. Actually looking forward to going home and leaving this craziness behind. We've also decided to cancel our trip to Austria and Germany in early June; unwilling to chance that that they too will be overrun with pent up demand. Are we glad we came? Sure. Will we ever come back? Porto, maybe. Lisbon, no. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...955253bf5c.jpg Covid testing center practically at our doorstep https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...d46645a6e4.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...fbdc5053c3.jpg One of three million tourist tat shops https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...c19ac53347.jpg Line for castle https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...8853138ba4.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...9d09675bca.jpg Castle https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...aa1a1c6199.jpg Looking down from castle https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...fbf3b6ca87.jpg Castle https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...8a455728e3.jpg Views from castle https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...20d336173b.jpg Castle https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...e4102b4a86.jpg Seriously blowy https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...902afbc376.jpg |
Thanks Melnq8
Nice views from the Castle. I enjoyed tagging along on your tour....... but you have to admit ,I was quiet. !! ;) |
LOL Mel! 'Returned to apartment to hide from people and the wind...' I love reading this kind of honest TR.Well-done both visually plus word-wise.
Whichof thosetilesdidyou buy as asouvenir? Jayzus, what a variety. In my next post, a song by 'Madredeus', the pride of Lisboa. May it smooth your way home. I am done. the end |
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Mel,
I'm glad the testing went quickly and well. And I've really enjoyed your photos. Easter in Lisbon certainly is an eye-opener! I read yesterday in The Portugal News about the high pollen content and yellow wind warning for the next few days. Hope you have a safe and uneventful (unlike ours in March, 20) journey home. mike, If you take the ferry over to Cacilhas on a nice, sunny day and want to have lunch or dinner at A-tirate-ao-Rio or Ponto Final, at the end of the 15-minute walk past the abandoned warehouses (they sit next to each other--same type of seafood menu), I really recommend reservations so that you don't have a long wait. We reserved for 12:30, for their 1st seating, and all tables at both restaurants had been reserved. Those who arrived later had to wait with a drink on the terrace (standing) till the first seating departed. Cacilhas makes a great escape from bustling Lisbon. |
Thanks for the soothing tunes zebec, just what this exhausted tourist needed.
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River and wine tasting
Beautiful photos! But what, no wine tasting/river trip? (or did I miss it?)
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We've been guzzling wine since we got here, does that count?
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Mel, I enjoyed your report and your photos! Just curious, what time did you arrive at the castle? We took a cab from our hotel to the castle to avoid the steep climb. According to my TR, we arrived at 10AM and the line was very, very short. This was in April 2018 but we were not in Lisbon during the Easter holiday. We loved the peacocks!!! They provided a lot of entertainment.
Just curious. If Lisbon wasn't crowded, do you think you would have liked the city? Did you enjoy the sites you saw? So far, of all our travels, I thought Seville, which I love, was the most crowded city we have visited. This was in September 2017. We stayed in Barrio Santa Cruz, and the narrow lanes were teeming with people. There were lots of tour groups, and we would have to step aside to let them pass first because it was impossible to get through. At first, it was difficult to appreciate the beautiful architecture in Seville and the plazas, fountains, etc. because of the crowds. So we didn't immediately fall in love with Seville. Have a safe trip home!!! |
Originally Posted by Maribel
(Post 17355423)
bdokeefe,
Where did you take your gardens tour? Viseu is another lovely Portuguese town with a pretty Pousada. |
Thanks, bdokeefe,
It sounds lovely and I want to get back to Viseu. |
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