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The line to get inside the gates at 10 am this morning,
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...066bc79f46.jpg I spoke too soon about Sintra being quiet today. I'm at the dining room table in our apartment and the noise from the historic center is unbelievable...then I discovered the window was open a crack (and it's 8:30 pm, so no quiet evenings here as hoped). Thank goodness for double glazed windows. Our apartment is a short walk from the center, yet on a side street, so has been pretty quiet. We've also avoided all those busy cafes in the center and just stuck to a few restaurants on the edge, which are quieter and have had very good food. |
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...93b3280336.jpg
The line for the Initiation Well when we passed by about 30-45 minutes after we'd gone in |
I'll remind my husband that the dawdling in the morning may not be the best idea.
Mine's a morning dawdler too. I've had to crack the whip:) |
Very much love the photos from Sintra. The crowds, though, not so much. Given current COVID numbers in Europe, I thought about pushing an April trip off to June / July, although I cannot imagine anywhere on the Continent that will be free from crowds this year.
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<<I'll remind my husband that the dawdling in the morning may not be the best idea.>>
<<Mine's a morning dawdler too. I've had to crack the whiphttps://www.fodors.com/community/ima...ted/smiley.gif”>> I’ll make sure to pack my whip, too😉 |
<<You may want to purchase those Regaleira tickets online for your May trip (signs on the way into the ticket office highly "suggested" this, but we didn't because we went in the afternoon on a "slow day" and there were 5 ticket booths open). But by May it may even be more crowded>>
My plan exactly! I’ve no doubt it’ll be busy and I’ll definitely take a cue from Mel and get there as early as we can. |
I, too, needed to crack the whip!
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Today was an absolute madhouse getting out of Sintra as all of Lisbon seemed to be pouring in. There was a huge bottleneck at the Sintra train station as people getting off their train and exiting through the ticket readers collided with those of us trying to do the opposite. Why they don't have a one way system is baffling.
The area near the Sintra train station was heaving with people and we were relieved to be leaving. Until... We arrived to more people than we have ever seen in our collective lives in Lisbon. OMFG. Our apartment is centrally located on Rossio Square, which I knew would be busy, but this is absolutely horrible. We found dinner on a side street then made the mistake of walking toward the arch (haven't been here long enough to even know the landmarks), but had to turn back because I thought I was going to have a crowd induced panic attack. We've commented often during this trip how Portugal reminds us of the Middle East...the wafts of sewage, the crumbling and abandoned buildings, and today for the first time, vendors approaching us on the street trying to lure us into their shops and restaurants.. It's the NYC of Portugal and we have no interest in ever going there, so I'm wondering what the hell we were thinking. Please, please, please tell me this is just an Easter weekend thing. Otherwise, I might seriously consider trying to get out of here a few days early or just hunker down in the apartment until Thursday. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...28f32e7fa6.jpg Lisbon https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...cd01e755ca.jpg Lisbon https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...5f005e7470.jpg The heaving Tram 28 |
Mel,
It's not just an Easter weekend thing, although being there from Good Friday to Easter Sunday exacerbates it--it's also a high season thing when the many mega cruise ships are in port, Lisbon being one of the most popular cruise ports in Europe. A 6,000 passenger ship arrived last month on the day we were leaving. The area of the Baixa then, especially the 3 main streets that flow north-south into Praça do Comércio, through the arch and to each side, can become a human tsunami. These are Rua Augusta, Rua Aurea (un gentrified) and Rua da Prata. And the middle of Rua Augusta (your 2nd photo) is lined with the terraces of mediocre restaurants with its buskers trying to lure people to sit and dine. I hate walking down Via August trying to weave in and out of the crowds. This is why we stay further up, on of slightly off the Avenida da Liberdade, or on a quiet side street in Chiado. Unfortunately Baixa is where many of the economical airbnbs are located (apartments can be pricier in Chiado) and is popular because it's flat and it's the very first area that the cruise passengers visit when they disembark. So everything from Rossio Square (always bustling now) down south to the water is extremely congested in high season (Easter included). When we were there on a Sunday in late March the Time Out market was a zoo. Other neighborhoods like the pretty pastel and quiet Campo do Ourique, trendy Príncipe Real, the elegant Avenida da Liberdade (modeled after the Champs Elysées but completely w/o fast food joints, buskers, trinket sellers), Estrela, (where there's a lovely, tranquil park next to the Basilica), the toney embassy district of Lapa, Santos (where the Museu de Arte Antiga sits), Saldanha (the business district) have a totally different feel. The further away you get from the cruise and bus crowds, the better the enjoyment. The dividing line for us in central Lisbon, is north of the Hard Rock Café, where the tone, architecture and general ambiance changes dramatically! On weekends there are often local couples dancing in the middle of the Avenida da Liberdade, across from Lacoste, at the "Quiosque O Melhor Bolo de Chocolate do Mundo". It was fun to watch the Lisboetas (not tourists) salsa dancing to Caribbean tunes there on a late Sunday afternoon (can't post our video, but maybe you can see them or there are videos on YouTube). The further north you go, the less packed it gets, although the HOHO buses do drop passengers off at the bottom of Eduardo VII Park. So, if you're up for a climb, go north, either walking or by uber/taxi and you'll find some solace. The upper reaches of the park are lovely. |
This is just an Easter weekend thing.
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Thanks Maribel I obviously underestimated things, and I definitely screwed up coming over Easter which has never been a big deal in my world. I also mistakenly thought this was low season, but there you go, got that wrong too.
And this just reinforces while I will never step foot on a cruise ship. I was mistaken, we're on Praça da Figueira not Rossio, but pretty much the same as far as I can tell. |
Yes, Mel, the Praça da Figueira is the square next door to Rossio. It's just the same, I'm afraid.
The cruise ship business has been a sort of blessing for Lisbon in financial terms but also a true curse. My advice is to get the hell out of the dodge of Rossio, Praça da Figueira and the entire Baixa (except for a few quiet corners like where the Corpo Santo hotel sits) and venture out to the other neighborhoods I mentioned above. Either by foot, uber or taxi. The lower reaches of the Alfama were also packed to the gills when we were there. |
Mel,
A few photos, one of crowds, the other of peace. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...e503983ab.jpeg Time Out Market on a sunny March Sunday https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...e6886a282.jpeg The Jerónimos cloister to ourselves (relatively) https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...dc38b2474.jpeg On a ferry ride to Cacihas https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...0a7a5f676.jpeg The uncrowded Avenida da Liberdade central promenade https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...35a56e218.jpeg The beginning of Liberdade--no derelict buildings here https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...87ea3c2e4.jpeg Avenida da Liberdade, a different side of Lisbon |
Mel,
This is too late for you but for others... There's an outdoor produce market on Saturday mornings in the Cais do Sodré area behind the Time Out Market complex on the Praça São Paulo run by Comida Independente. This area is less frequented becasue it sits behind the market. On this square is a little red quiosque run by the chef, André Magalhães, of Taberna Rua das Flores in Chiado that sells petiscos and drinks and supposedly prepares one of the city's best pregos and bifanas (2 typical Portuguese sandwiches). It has 30 outdoor seats. It's the oldest, from 1872, and only private quiosque in the city. Closed on Sundays. An alternative if the Time Out Market is bursting at the seams. https://culinarybackstreets.com/citi...-de-sao-paulo/ And By The Wine on Rua das Flores in Chiado is a great place for petiscos and wines by the glass that doesn't see that many tourists. https://www.cntraveler.com/restauran...on/by-the-wine https://www.bythewine.pt/en/. |
Wow. Just wow. I think the last time I was in Lisbon was late 2014, and I thought then it was getting too popular, but it was nothing like that bad, even in Baixa. I am so glad I went before the mega-cruise ships.
Love your photos, Maribel, that cloister is one of my favorite places. |
Thanks so much, thursdaysd,
We were extremely lucky this time to get to the Jerónimos cloisters just as it opened at 10 am and were the first in line. I first visited in 1970, long, long before the crowds and way before the cruises lines discovered Lisbon, and my photos then are soooooo different! Now everywhere in tourist frequented Lisbon just constitutes a "fight" to get there before the cruise ship buses arrive! I'll post more photos later of the more quiet corners of Lisbon. The good news is that there still are quiet, undiscovered corners, but you just need to get out of the tourist zones and seek them out! |
That's funny, Maribel, I first went in 1970 too, but then I didn't go back for decades. An afternoon in 2004, before the night train to Madrid (and ahead of the EuroCup fans), and then a week in 2008, and then a few more times. But it wasn't until 2014 that it really seemed crowded.
My photos, including the cloister, from 2008: https://kwilhelm.smugmug.com/Travel/...o-2008/Lisbon/ |
So very different then...
Funny that we both first visited Lisbon in 1970, during the Salazar regime. Sad that the night train, the Lusitania Express, no longer runs. I traveled on that train with 3 of my college friends sharing a 4 bunk couchette car overnight during our November holidays. So much fun! We now go to Lisbon either in November or March just to avoid the crowds. |
Yes, that train was really the only good way to travel between Spain and Portugal unless you were driving (or hitch hiking, in 1970....). The seat61 site suggests there may be a high speed train on that route in a couple of years. I did the northern route from Santiago to Porto in 2004, and you couldn't even buy a through ticket.
We tend to forget about the dictators who were still power in the '70s, it was so good to see them go. |
Thanks for the lovely photos of Lisbon - it looks like you’ve found a few of the quieter places in Lisbon! I hope that you do continue to find ways to enjoy the city. And if it is the NYC of Portugal, I won’t complain - I live in NYC and love it.
Maribel, thanks for the additional ideas for Lisbon! And thursdaysd, thanks for the reminiscences of your visits. |
Wow, I did not expect such crowds in April. I know it's Easter weekend, but still...We'll be there mid-Oct, hopefully quieter then, but I'm a little bit worried now. Glad to see you found some quieter spots, and got to enjoy The Jerónimos cloister before the crowds.
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Mel, loving your photos, as usual! Thank you for your wonderful photo essays!!
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xyz99,
In mid-October, I think you'll be ok. Here are more photos of our Jerónimos visit at 10 am w/o crowds- https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...e633f5a0b.jpeg Quiet and peaceful https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...07b03c96c.jpeg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...69ed4bc11.jpeg The refectory https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...b35c35e1b.jpeg Identifying all the gargoyles https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...b2081c11d.jpeg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...f383eb830.jpeg |
Oh, my. This was not our experience at all, but it was 2015 and October. The only huge crowds we dealt were the 28 tram which we didn't use, and the line in Belem for the pastries which we passed on (at least in that location).
Chin up, Mel. I've read your trip reports countless times and cloned many of your itineraries. What a bummer to have a trip that isn't connecting the dots for you and your fellow traveler. |
Phew! Glad to hear that, Maribel! Jerónimos is truly stunning, I expect I'll spend quite some time there.
Mel, hopefully things will calm down after this weekend. Do they have Monday off in Portugal? |
xyz99,
I just read an eye opening report about a recent Pena Palace visit on the Rick Steves Portugal forum---it appears that an entry ticket for the Palace at 5 pm is fairly sure way to go (if you're not too tired by then). And be sure to purchase the transfer ticket on the shuttle bus as well as the Pena Palace ticket to avoid the very long climb up to the Palace gates. https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/portugal. The post is "Report: (Trying to) Visit Pena Palace in April 2022" |
A hot sticky Easter day - we were all over the place and I'm having trouble even figuring out what all we covered - the neighborhoods are confusing here and it's not clear to me where one changes to another.
We made it to Belem; some sort of horse-mounted band parade was underway when we arrived. We logged countless miles - took bus 728 and 714 and then walked up (and then back down) the crazy steep hill that runs alongside Elevador da Gloria. We saw a few massive cruise ships...the source of my near melt down yesterday, but managed to avoid them somehow... Perhaps their passengers were all in Belem with us (monastery closed today, not that we'd planned on visiting it anyway). We strolled along the posh Avenida da Liberdade, lined with it's luxury hotels and shops and briefly popped into the Tivoli Hotel there, which has a 250 euro cover charge for something - not clear what. We're finding Lisbon very difficult to navigate and less friendly than other areas we've visited this trip...probably tourist burn-out, which I can completely understand. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...81195ce181.jpg Lisbon https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...b3e0f0a17c.jpg Lisbon https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...e88c7b0cf7.jpg Belem https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...dace097bf9.jpg Belem https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...f6b105b965.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...82f8aca9b6.jpg Belem https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...b404a2abb4.jpg Belem https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...4a2b3dfb4d.jpg Belem https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...d5c130be39.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...d26d97cf70.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...255de96e0e.jpg |
Found it odd that the Avenida metro station was closed today - the gates were chained shut. Any idea why Maribel?
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I don't know Mel.
The military parade you saw in Belém was the Royal Changing of the Guard that happens every 3rd Sunday of the month. We went to the rooftop of the Tivoli SEEN for a sunset drink but found no cover charge. Just a (pricey for Lisbon) 7 euro glass of Soalheiro alvarinho but great views, blankets and some complimentary nibbles. |
Gorgeous photos, Mel, thanks for the ongoing photo report. It looks like you’re managing to cover a lot even if it’s a bit confusing and overwhelming. I think most large cities are often hard to navigate and Lisbon does seem more confusing with its many hills. It’s hard to get a sense of the city from just looking at the map. But the weather looks glorious, even if it’s getting warm (note to self here!).
Wishing you an enjoyable remainder of your trip. |
I am coming to this thread late....obviously.
Very beautiful pictures Melnq8. It was nice to just scroll along. It was a pleasure reliving my trip there. How in the world did you get that Seagull picture in Porto. !! Portugal has architecture that you do not see in Europe. Thank You for posting your adventure Melnq8 . Happy Easter to you. thrusdaysd: Thanks for your pictures of Amarante Isn't this the place where can buy penis cakes in June !!;) |
Originally Posted by Maribel
(Post 17354646)
xyz99,
I just read an eye opening report about a recent Pena Palace visit on the Rick Steves Portugal forum---it appears that an entry ticket for the Palace at 5 pm is fairly sure way to go (if you're not too tired by then). And be sure to purchase the transfer ticket on the shuttle bus as well as the Pena Palace ticket to avoid the very long climb up to the Palace gates. https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/portugal. The post is "Report: (Trying to) Visit Pena Palace in April 2022" Mel, I love your photos, keep them coming! |
I actually agree with you, xyz99, but I'm the early bird type. I'd rather be at the door when it opens (and be first in line:)) rather than risk doing it at 5, and by then, I know I just wouldn't have any more energy after visiting the other Sintra sites, and you make a good point that you'd only have an hour for the Palace and look out points (forgot that it closes at 6).
Mel, I checked the Lisbon metro web page for Avenida and that station closes on weekends and holidays (didn't know that...) |
Mel -
Agree that Lisbon's topography can be a little difficult at times. Not sure if it is all the steep hills, my deficiency in Portugese language, or what but it took me a couple days to feel comfortable. Both times i was in Lisbon I experienced what maribel described - the further north up Av Liberdade, the more serene the area. Do extract yourself from the crazy busy location and explore some other parts of town. Have you been to the Gulbenkian museum? Def worth a visit. |
Mel,
I think you'd love Seamus' (great!) idea of getting up to the Gulbenkian. It's a really pleasant, serene museum surrounded by pretty gardens and an "easy see". It could then be combined with time at the top of Eduardo VII park, then the walk from the park to your square is all downhill! Just a note that the Gulbenkian is closed on Tuesdays (and was closed today, Easter Sunday). |
A much calmer day thanks to the sage advice above...thank you!
Train from Rossio to Sao Sabastio - changed at Alameda. Then walked to the Gulbenkian, which is currently under renovation, so not all rooms are available - Modern Art Museum is also being renovated. We're not really museum people (although very much looking forward to the Tile Museum tomorrow - I do love Portuguese tile). A nice walk through the gardens, followed by Leonidas across the street for the chocoholic. Then walked to Parque Eduardo VII - thoroughly enjoyable despite the very windy day – the flying pollen from the trees on Liberdade wreaking serious havoc on noses and contact lenses - lots of sneezing and coughing from ingested tree bits and dust. We eventually worked our way back down Liberdade (again) - revisited the posh Tivoli Hotel for clarification on that 250 euro cover charge (still baffled). Mojito break on the way back to hotel. Soon we'll head out for dinner - Indian (again). https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...fb3fa8a0be.jpg Gulbenkian https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...f2df897705.jpg Gulbenkian - what can I say, this one stood out. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...d052105174.jpg Gulbenkian https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...8f798a58ad.jpg Parque Eduardo VII https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...e617d4f921.jpg Parque Eduardo VII (theater?) https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...d7046d1dcf.jpg Parque Eduardo VII https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...17d4b27a3e.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...27950f9a1a.jpg Parque Eduardo VII (theater?) https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...835ef8e945.jpg Base of Parque Eduardo VII https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...46ea910e5c.jpg Mojito! https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fod...3b4bfa5d1c.jpg 250 euro coverage charge at Tivoli Hotel on Liberdade |
Do you like house "museums"? If so, consider: https://fronteira-alorna.pt/en/home/#pll_switcher
There are some interesting smaller museums in Lisbon, too: https://www.golisbon.com/sight-seein...ts-museum.html and https://www.golisbon.com/sight-seein...gn-museum.html and https://www.golisbon.com/sight-seein...es-museum.html and https://www.visitlisboa.com/en/place...eum-of-costume (the last was short on English language labels when I visited, but that was over a decade ago). I wouldn't expect any of them to especially crowded. |
Mel,
So glad that the Gulbenkian and Parque Eduardo VII provided you with a much more enjoyable day! When we were at the Tivoli rooftop terrace of its SEEN restaurant, everything could be ordered a la carte. Their SKY BAR wasn't open in March--that's where they have the (gulp!) cover charge. I admit that the SEEN terrace wasn't our "scene", as it was filled with a international tourist crowd (not unexpectedly) rather than locals. Of all the roof top terraces we visited, we most enjoyed the quirky, whimsical INSOLITO, the terrace of the Decadente hostel, right above the Miradouro de São Pedro de Alcántara, reached by the Elevador de Gloria (or by climbing up as you did). We enjoyed it because it attracts a young and mostly local crowd, has very reasonable prices and darn good food, amazingly good in fact, for a roof top terrace, from a very well trained chef. And the fun part was reaching it via the teeny, tiny, ancient elevator smaller than a W.C and draped in the original wallpaper. Must be one of Lisbon's very first elevators. I hope you enjoy the Tile Museum and its elaborate, Baroque gold encrusted chapel. If you do enjoy house museums, or private collections housed in the former mansion of a magnate like Calouste Gulbenkian, I can highly recommend this one-- Casa Museu Medeiros E Almeida Rua Rosa Araújo, 41, across from the Vincci Liberdade and Port Bay Marqués hotels and two blocks above the Avenida da Liberdade, set in the former mansion of an art collector and industrialist, one of Portugal’s wealthiest men, and gives the visitor a glimpse of the opulence of this elegant district in the 19th-century.This museum is an unsung gem. Displayed here are Medeiros e Almeida’s priceless collection of European paintings (including a Ribera, a Rembrant, a Delacroix, two Brueghels, a Gainsborough and a Tiepolo), Flemish tapestries, one of the world’s finest collections of clocks, watches, fountains from Versailles, English and Portuguese silverware, a tea set used by Napoleon, ceramics, furniture and 18th-century azulejos. Medeiros e Almeida and his wife lived here until 1970, and the twenty-five rooms have been kept exactly as they were used on a daily basis. Open Monday-Saturday from 10:00 pm to 5:00 pm with last entrance at 4:30. Admission is 5€ or 3€ for seniors, but free on Saturdays from 10:00 am to 1:00 pm. I posted a few photos of its art on one of the threads. It is never crowded and another "easy see". |
Yo Mel, will you be buying any tiles to bring home? They can be loosely placed (i.e. without glue) atop existing tabletop surfaces with ease and would serve as a permanent reminder of your trip.
I am done. the interior decor |
zebec - no, hadn't planned to bring any home, but I think they'd make a great kitchen backsplash...
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