tableronde

This is a question for those of you travelers who forgo the luxury of car rental and have switched to wheeled backpacks on train and ferry.

We're planning a 2 week trip in Greece (Athens - Cyclades - Crete - Peloponnese - Corfu), then 1 week to traverse Italy south to north (we've been there many times before, wish to stop mainly in Tuscany), end in Milan.

Would a 2-country Eurail Pass offer any advantage? Compared to buying on location a 2 person ferry + train discount, one person age 63, the other below age 26? Does one have to pre-purchase Italian train tickets 3 days in advance for any discount? We don't care for long distance 1st class on Intercity trains, prefer the flexibility of getting on and off at will.

I've looked at some of the information posted, and at guides (Rick Steves, Lonely Planet, etc), and so far it looks like the Eurail Pass costs and restrictions aren't worth it in these 2 countries.

Unlike years ago, when I sat half the time in a rail car from E to W and N to S and watched Western Europe run by, or hopped on any train just for the night.

A related issue: the quality and reliability of Greek train system (compared to buses). For example I read in one post that the Athens-Patra line is down for repairs. Or that a mainland trip Athens - Delphi - Meteora - Igoumenitsa is out of question.

Any current and more informed opinions would be appreciated.

kybourbon

You might conside the Italy/Greece Saver pass. You can pick the number of days you need. It includes free deck passage for one way of the overnight ferry. You could pay a supplement if you wanted a cabin. I've never used the train system in Greece so I don't know if passes are worthwhile for there. For Italy, a pass is rarely economical as the point-to-point tickets are quite reasonable. Even with a pass, if you are planning to use any of the Italian fast trains (AV,ES, ICPlus) you would be required to pay 15€ supplement for a seat reservation (mandatory for these trains).

Trenitalia changes their discount programs from time to time. The current discount is called Amica and gives you a 20% discount on the fast trains(includes your seat reservation), but must be booked at least 24 hours in advance. I think they limit the number of Amica fares so they can sell out. If you want to price trains, enter a date within the next 7 days (use the same day of week you intend to travel).
www.trenitalia.com

tableronde

Hoping that my title will be found by somebody who has already been in a similar situation.
It doesn't look like a Eurail Pass will help us.
But I wonder whether one can obtain a discount in Greece for a Greek ferry + Italian train , say Patras or Corfu to Bari, then by train on to northern Italy.
The website http://www.minoan.gr/index.asp?a_id=867 mentions something to that effect; and Trenitalia mentions discounts for age and companion, but with pre-purchase requirement.

thursdaysd

That looks like a lot of territory to cover in a short time! I took the train from Kalambaka to Athens and it was fine, but otherwise I used the buses (KTEL) in northern Greece and they were good too. You might see if www.railsaver.com helps answer your question about whether passes will help - I've never bothered in Italy.

BTW, if you're taking trains you might consider a "real" backpack rather than a wheeled backpack - much easier when dealing with stairs. E.g. tinyurl.com/5ew82y - ignore the bit about 20-somethings - I've reached 60 and I'm still using something very similar.

kybourbon

If you read the descriptions of Cartaviaggio IT on Trenitalia, you will see you must be an Italian to get one.

PalenQ

The Italy-Greece 'Eurailpass' covers deck passage but not port taxes and a high season surcharge and for your plans seems too much in costs since most of your travels are in Greece

But i'm not sure what deck passage costs actually so check pass vs buying boat tickets separately

Italian train ticket do not have to be bought in advance though to get the Amica fares buying as early as possible makes it more likely you will get the limited in number about 20% discounted fares. But full fare in Italy is still dirt cheap compared to most of Europe. Check trenitalia.com for Bari or Venice to Milan tickets.

Railpass eligible boats go from Patra-corfu to Bari, ancona and venice - venice would be the least expensive to get to Milan by train but the boat, longer, may cost more.

Usually if buses are substituted for rail lines during rebuilding railpasses and tickets are valid on replacement buses as well.

For lots on train travel and this railpass in Italy and Greece i always recommend two fine sites - www.ricksteves.com, which you have mentioned, and www.budgeteuropetravel.com - two sites that give much more than the usual pass prices and an option to add to cart - lots of good objective info.

For flexibility of getting on and off at will in Italy you will have to limit your trains to those IC and Regional as faster trains like ICplus and ES Eurostar Italia demand reservations before boarding and with a pass, in ES case a supplement of about $25 - but from Venice to Milan there are plenty of IC and Regional trains where with a pass you can get on and off at will.

kybourbon

PQ - Amica discount fares have to be purchased 24 hours in advance.

PalenQ

kybourbon - thanks for the correction - i should have said i was not sure about that. It is about a 20% discount, right

curious as to how often they are available up to 24 hours before - a good reason to buy tickets at least a day before as the exact same ticket costs 20% less.

thanks again

tableronde

Thanks for the replies. Yes, I have already looked at websites like trenitalia, ricksteves.

On previous trips within Italy we've been able to take advantage of the advertised promozioni, tarife speciali, prenotazioni. It was a reward for my having learned to read Italian, to do it like the locals do. We got reductions like Amica, Verde, Argento when buying inside the country with 3 days advance purchase and 50% discount; no questions asked about residence. Looks like nowadays it is 1 day in advance and 10-20% discount.

I am keenly aware of practices to distinguish between tourists and locals; like certain countries charging lump sums for their highways: same price for one week or for one year; sock it to the tourist. By contrast Italian trains and Greek conventional ferries are relatively cheap because they are state sponsored to unify distant regions of the country. And I rather enjoy the company of the peasant lady bringing a live chicken home from the city market.

This time I am considering a Eurail Pass worthwhile only if a train + ferry are combined. And I'd like to get from the ferry onto the train on the same day; whereby I must consider the frequent delays in ferry schedules. Hence I was wondering about the above discounts being purchasable before ferry boarding in Corfu toward Bari.

So in this discount game I am fishing for a forum travel who has been in a similar situation; who isn't in a hurry and didn't fall for the 1st class offers on express trains, with specific seat and train reservations.

PalenQ

No pass for you! Not cost effective since is very limited in Greece and yes ES Italia trains charge pass holders a steep 15 euro 'supplement' for each segment.