Good rail journeys

Sep 10th, 2006, 09:48 AM
  #1  
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Good rail journeys

Often in Europe going to a place by train is as exciting as arriving. About a month ago the London newspaper The Independent surveyed fifty railways or journeys that stand out as a pleasure in themselves. I have scanned the notes for continental Europe. Please enjoy them, and tell me whether to show here their notes on chosen British rail journeys.
Ben Haines, London
[email protected]
German ICE
ICE (Inter City Express) trains are Germany’s answer to France’s TGV. As you’d expect, they are sleek and highly efficient, and can reach top speeds of 186mph. Passengers can be whisked from, fir example, Cologne to Stuttgart (around 200 miles) in under two hours, platform to platform, a timed that even a homebound Porsche would struggle to beat on an unrestricted autobahn. There are also services to Switzerland, Austria, the Nertherlands and Belgium. Travel in first class and you can enjoy seatback video, mobile-phone boosters and audio facilities
Deutsche Bahn-ICE(www.bahn.de)

Eurostar
The UI (was finally linked to mainland Europe thanks to Eurostar and the Channel just
two-and-a half hours later. The on-board catering and facilities provided in both Leisure Select and Business Premier classes are superb. The services will finally be completed when the new terminal at St Pancras opens in 2007.
Eurostar (0870 518 6186; www.euiriostaqr.com)

TGV
Since the trains a grande vitesse projects started in the 1960s, TGV services have grown to cover much of France, running from Paris all the way to the Riviera and numerous places in between. The latest trains include the Paris South West from Paris to Lyon, which has a top speed of 186mph, but plans are afoot for a new generation of TGVs which could run up to 225mph, so the world, especially Japan, is watching.
TGV(www.tgv.com)

Venice-Simplon Orient Express
These days, the train that was immortalised in Agatha Christie’s Murder on the Orient Express runs rnost1y between Paris and Venice. However, those who want to recreate the magic of the original route from Paris to Istanbul can board the gleaming blue and gold
Carriages at Gare de l’Est and spend the next six days in the lap of rolling-stock luxury. The route meanders through France, Switzerland, Hungary and Bulgaria before reaching Turkey
Venice-Simplon-Orient-Express (0845 077 2222; www.oruient-expresstrains.vom).

Spanish ATV Network
Spain’s AVE trains are punctual, fast, efficient and have superb on-board services; which include meals served at passengers’ seats. The network runs from Lleida in the north, down through the centre of the country taking in Madrid and Cordoba, before reaching Seville in the south. The trains can travel at up to l80 mph and the average journey time between Madrid and Seville is only two and a half hours.
Spanish Rail Services (www.spanish-rail.co.uk)

Ofoten Railway
This route stretches back to 1902 when it was used to transport iron ore. Today passengers can take the train in summer from Stockholm to Narvik throngh
Riksgrensen on the border between Norway and Sweden, passing through spectacular scenery such as steep mountains, deep fjords and traditional villages.
Ofoten Railway (004776 92 31 21. www.ofotbanen.no).

Swedish 2000 Trains
The Swedish authorities realized long sgo that because of the nature of their countryside, which is mainly a patchwork of lovely lakes and forests, it could never have the very straight rails they have in Japan or France. With typical practicality, they invested early on in developing tilting trains capable of tilting quickly through curves. With top speeds of 125mph the X20000 tilting trains provide the main link between cities such as Stockholm and Gothenberg.
Swedish State railways (www.sj.se)

Jungfrau Railway
The Jungfrau is the highest railway in Europe, reaching an altitude of 8.45m (11,329ft), carrying passengers through the heart of glaciers and to the rooftop of Europe. The famous cogwheel railway travels from Interlaken Ost and takes in Kleine Scheidegg at the foot of the notorious Eiger North Wall. At Eigergletschewr there is a superb mountain restaurant, and at the summit there are g1orious views as far as the peaks of the Vosges
Jungfraubahnen (00 41 38 828 7111;www.jungfraubhan.ch).


Centovalli Line
This magica1route begins in the Swiss city of Locarno on the edge of Lake Maggiore. From here the train climbs steeply up through meadows and past villages perched precariously on cliff tops before reaching the sweeping Swiss Alps where passengers can enjoy amazing birds-eye views of the soaring snow-capped mountains. The route
also takes in the Italian Alps.
Centovalli (00 41 91 756 0400; www.centovalli.ch)

Glacier Express
The Glacier Express runs though the Swiss mountains from St Moritz to Zermatt. It reaches a height of 2,033m (6,668ft) and travels across 29l bridges and through 91 tunnels as it snakes across the Oberalp. The views are unsurpassed and take in Alpine meadows, ancient forests and gurgling mountain streams.
The Glacier Express (00 41 27 927 7777; www.glacierexpress.ch).

La Spezia to Cinque Terre
This is one of Italy’s most spectacular stretches of coastal railway, crossing an area that is often referred to as the Bay of Poets, as it was much admired by th Romantic poets Keats, Shelley and Byron. The line takes passengers northwards towards Genoa through a series of tunnels, taking in the picture-postcard villages of Vernazza, Corniglia, and Manarola as well as the Unesco World Heritage site of Cinque Terre. Trenitalia (www.trenitsalia.it)

Trenitalia
Within Italy you can travel on the Trenitalia, which races along Italy’s new high-speed lines. There are now four trains a day between Milan and Rome with speeds of up to 125mph and a journey time of just under four hours. There are excellent on - board facuilities, including complimentary meals served in the first-class cars.
Trenitalia (www.trenitalia.it).

The Golden Ring,
This steam-hauled journey takes passengers to the Arctic Circle near Murmansk behind a specially restored 245-ton P86 steam locomotive, once used on the Trans-Siberian Express and the peak of Soviet rail technology when it was built in 1954. The journey starts in the Ukrainian capital of Kiev and the train then travels to Moscow before heading for St. Petersburg. It then goes north through Pskov and Vyborg before reaching Murmansk and the Arctic Circle and 24 hours of daylight.
TheGoldenRing(0161-928 9410; www.gwtravel.co.uk).

Trans Siberian Railway
This is the longest railway line in the world, just short of 7,000 miles from Moscow to Vladivostok. The train travels in either direction, crosses eight time zones and the Europe-Asia divide at Yekaterinburg. There are 21 cars, including restaurant cars and a bar car and most compartments have en-suite facilities. Highlights of the trip include Kazan, Novisibirsk, Lake Balkal and Ulan Ude.
Trans Siberian Railway (0161 -928 9410; www.gwtravel.co.uk)

The Crimean Express
This two-week journey into the heart of the Crimea starts in St Petersburg. From there the route takes in Moscow, Minsk, Lviv, Odessa, Feodosiya and Yalta, where a visit is made to the Massandra Palace and Imperial winery which houses bottles dating back to 1775. Then it’s onwards to Sevastopol and a visit to Balaclava and the valley where the Charge of the Light Brigade took place. The journey ends in Kiev.
The CrimeanExpress(0161-928 9410; www.gwtravel.co.uk)
ben_haines_london is offline  
Sep 10th, 2006, 10:16 AM
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Dear Ben,

Thank you for posting that. I enjoyed it and it provided plenty of fodder for the imagination. I'd love to see the additional information about Britain.

Olive Oil
olive_oil is offline  
Sep 10th, 2006, 10:27 AM
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Gret info, Mr. Haines. Have you done the Trans Siberian Express and if so, how long ago? Hope all's well with you.
Treesa is offline  
Sep 10th, 2006, 10:40 AM
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Ben, thank you for these notes.

I loved reading about the many trains and routes we have't taken (yet!), and the few that we have.

Traveling by trains in Europe is, to us, certainly "as exciting as arriving." and to tell the truth, we enjoy the rides on slower plainer trains almost as much as the fancy ones.

There's just something about leaving the airport to board a European train. Off you go, into Switzerland, or Italy, or France. At that point, you know you're THERE!

Again, thank you.

Byrd




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Sep 10th, 2006, 10:44 AM
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Fort William to Mallaig - even if you don't get the Jacobite.

http://www.scotrail.co.uk/scotrwhl.htm
alanRow is offline  
Sep 10th, 2006, 12:51 PM
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Yes please Mr. Haines I'd like to see the notes on chosen British rail journeys.

Thank you for the notes for continental Europe.

Sandy
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Sep 11th, 2006, 07:16 PM
  #7  
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Olive Oil, Sandy Brit, and all of you. Very many thanks. Here are the Independent’s notes on trains in Britain. I have proof read them again. Scanning creates errors, and I apologise for these in the notes on European trains.

Treesa. Thanks for your good wishes. I have taken the Pullman from London to Victoria 25 years ago, but am afraid my ulcerated feet prevent travel nowadays, but like Byrd I enjoy reading of travel, travelling in my mind, on this forum. A week ago I did manage a day trip to Hastings by bus with my delightful Nigerian housekeeper. I hired a powered wheel chair for just five pounds, and shall certainly do it again, but I did rub off a lot of skin.

Ben Haines

Docklands Light Railway
Since 1987 when the Docklands was a brownfield site, this driverless train has offered passengers a ringside view of this rapidly developing east London landscape. You can take in signature buildings such as the Swiss Re buildmg (also known as the gherkin), the Cutty Sark, the Millennium Dome and the mini-Manhattan skyline of Canary Wharf. Transport forLondon (020-7222 1234; www.tfl.gov.uk.dtr).

The Watercress Line
Tains run from the beautiful Georgian town of Alfresford to Alton using either steam or heritage diesel locomotives. The route covers 10 miles of steeply graded track through beautiful Hampshire scenery, passing through Ropley, the railway’s engineering base, Medstead and Four Marks, the highest station in southern England.
The Watercress Line (01962733810; www.watercressline.co.uk).

Bluebell Railway
Named after the bluebells that line the track in late April and early May, the famous Bluebell line began life as part of the London, Brighton and South Coast Railway. Today, the reopened part of the line runs from Lewes to East Grinstead and passes through Sheffield Park to Horsted Keynes and Kingscote. It is unique in that it is one of the few heritage railways where you will not get wind of aything remotely diesel, as even the shunting is done by steam locomotives. Bluebell Railway (01825720800; www.bluebell-rilway.c~).

Virgin Pendolino
This tilting train links London Euston to Glasgow on the West Coast line. Virgin’s fleet of Pendoino (tilting) trains could be running at speeds up to l35mphwithin the next three years and are capable of top speeds of 140mph on the right sort of track. At present they are restricted to 125mph, but the aim is to get the journey from London to Glasgow down to under four hours. The carriages’ fit-out is cutting-edge and the on-hoard facilities are excellent. VizginTrains (0845 722 2333; www.virgintrains.co.uk).

Ravenglass and Eskdale Railway
The narrow-gauge Ravenglass and Eskdate Railway runs for seven miles through the West Cumbrian countryside. The 40-minute journey takes passengers through the valleys of the rivers of Mite and Esk to the foot of England’s highest mountains. Highlights include Dalegarth and Eskdale and there is plenty of wildlife to look out for along the way
Ravendsale and Eskglass Railway (01229 7! 7171; www.ravenglass-railway.co.uk).

East Coast Mainline
The stretch of line from Berwick-upon Teed was voted “Most Scenic Train Journey in Britain” recently by a panel of Country Life readers and celebrities. The journey takes in Durham’s Castle and Cathedral, Lumley Castle, Morpeth, Warkworth Castle, Lindisfarne, and Goswick Sands.
GNER (0845 722 5225; www.gner.co.uk)

Great Central Railway
The Great Central Railway, which runs from Loughborough Central Station to Leicester North Station, lays claim to being the UK’s only mainline steam railway and is one of the few places in the world where scheduled full-size-steam trains pass each other on double track. From Loughborough Central the route takes passengers through Quorn and Wood-house, and Rothley and offers~ panoramic views all along he line. Great Central Railway (01509230726; www.gcrailway.co.uk).

North Yorkshire Moors Railway
The North Yorkshire Moors Railway is one of the longest “preserved” railways in the country, running through 18 miles of spectacular scenery between the southern terminus at Pickering to Grosmont, six miles from Whitby. The line travels through forest, rolling countryside and open moorland and winds its way through impressively steep valleys. It crosses both tumbling streams and the River Esk, with several waterfalls, interesting bridges and viaducts to be-seen along the way. Those with sharp eyes can spot deer, foxes, badgers, heron and kingfisher.
NorthYorshire Moors Railway (01751 472508; www.northyorkshiremoorsrailway.com).

The Royal Scotsman
The Royal Scotsman, frequently described by railway enthusiasts as the most luxurious train in the world, offers just 85 guests the ride of their life taking in classic Highland attractions such as romantic castles, private baronial homes and distilleries, not to mention breathtaking scenery. Mahogany-panelled State Cabins come as standard as do gastronomic delights in the dining car. There are various tours available, lasting from one to seven nights.
The Royal Scotsman (0845 077 2222,www.royalscotsman.com).

The Jacobite Steam Express
This four-day Journey begins in Preston and takes in Glasgow Central, Glasgow
Queen Street, Fort William and Mallaig. The Jacobite is pulled by three different steam locomotives, the LMS Black Five 45407, the LNER Kl 2-6-0 62005 and the LNER B1 4-6-0 61264. This tour for enthusiasts takes in classic West Highland scenery, including Ben Nevis, Loch Lomond, Crianiarich, Rannoch Moor and the famous seaseapes of the Mallaig line The Railway Touring Company (01583661500; Www.ruizwaytouringco~)

Bo’ness & Kinneil Railway
This line runs alongside the foreshore of the Firth of Forth, with fine views of the Ochil Hills. Birkhill Station has been re-established with the buildings re-erected from what was originally Monifieth Station, near Dundee. Passengers can visit the caverns of Birkhill Fireclay Mine, which includes 300 million-year-old fossils and displays on how the clay to make bricks was once mined.
The ScottishRailway Preservation Society (01506 825855; www.srps.org.uk/railway)

Talyllyn Railway
The railway began life in 1865, and two of the original locomotives and coaching stock are still in use today. The 2ft 8in-wuide track runs for seven or so miles along the beautiful Fathew Valley to Nant Gwernol, just three miles away from the lake that gives the railway its name. Much of the track runs through Snowdonia National Park
Ta lyllyn Railway Company (01 65 710472; www.tallylyn.co.uk).

Snowdon Mountain Railway
Since 1896 Brirain’s only cog railway has been ferrying passengers from Llanberis to the top of Snowdon in Wales. At 1,085 m (3,560ft), Snowdon is the highest peak in England and Wales and the railway runs to within 6 ft of the summit. The mountain is a place of legend:- it is said to be the burial place of the giant ogre Rhita and some believe that some of King Arthur’s knights still sleep beneath the mountain. If the weather permits, there are wonderful views from the summit.
The Snowdon Railway Company (0870 458 0033; www.snowdonraulway.co.uk0

Severn Valley Railway
The Severn Valley Railway was built between 1858 and 1862 and today is instantly recognisable from its numerous film appearances. Running through 16 miles of splendid scenery a1ong the Severn Valley and the River Severn, the line crosses from Kidderminster in Worcestershire to Brudgenorth in Shropshire, with stops at Bewey, Arley, Highley, Country Park Halt and Hampton Loade. The view of the countryside from the train is superb.
Severn ValleyRailway (01299 403816; www.svr.co.uk).

The British Pullman and the Northern Belle
Both these trains are operated by the Orient-Express group and both cover the best of the British countryside. The Royal Pullman (operates mostly in the South of England with destinations that include Blenheim Palace, York, Norwich, Leeds Castle and Worcester.
The Northern Belle runs throughout the UK and both trains reflect the golden age of travel of the 1930s. Day trips are available, making this an affordable luxury. The British Pullman and the Northern Belle (0845-077 2222; www.orient.express.com,)


Docklands Light Railway
Since 1987 when the Docklands was a brownfield site, this driverless train has offered passengers a ringside view of this rapidly developing east London landscape. You can take in signature buildings such as the Swiss Re buildmg (also known as the gherkin), the Cutty Sark, the Millennium Dome and the mini-Manhattan skyline of Canary Wharf. Transport forLondon (020-7222 1234; www.tfl.gov.uk.dtr).

The Watercress Line
Tains run from the beautiful Georgian town of Alfresford to Alton using either steam or heritage diesel locomotives. The route covers 10 miles of steeply graded track through beautiful Hampshire scenery, passing through Ropley, the railway’s engineering base, Medstead and Four Marks, the highest station in southern England.
The Watercress Line (01962733810; www.watercressline.co.uk).

Bluebell Railway
Named after the bluebells that line the track in late April and early May, the famous Bluebell line began life as part of the London, Brighton and South Coast Railway. Today, the reopened part of the line runs from Lewes to East Grinstead and passes through Sheffield Park to Horsted Keynes and Kingscote. It is unique in that it is one of the few heritage railways where you will not get wind of aything remotely diesel, as even the shunting is done by steam locomotives. Bluebell Railway (01825720800; www.bluebell-rilway.c~).

Virgin Pendolino
This tilting train links London Euston to Glasgow on the West Coast line. Virgin’s fleet of Pendoino (tilting) trains could be running at speeds up to l35mphwithin the next three years and are capable of top speeds of 140mph on the right sort of track. At present they are restricted to 125mph, but the aim is to get the journey from London to Glasgow down to under four hours. The carriages’ fit-out is cutting-edge and the on-hoard facilities are excellent. VizginTrains (0845 722 2333; www.virgintrains.co.uk).

Ravenglass and Eskdale Railway
The narrow-gauge Ravenglass and Eskdate Railway runs for seven miles through the West Cumbrian countryside. The 40-minute journey takes passengers through the valleys of the rivers of Mite and Esk to the foot of England’s highest mountains. Highlights include Dalegarth and Eskdale and there is plenty of wildlife to look out for along the way
Ravendsale and Eskglass Railway (01229 7! 7171; www.ravenglass-railway.co.uk).

East Coast Mainline
The stretch of line from Berwick-upon Teed was voted “Most Scenic Train Journey in Britain” recently by a panel of Country Life readers and celebrities. The journey takes in Durham’s Castle and Cathedral, Lumley Castle, Morpeth, Warkworth Castle, Lindisfarne, and Goswick Sands.
GNER (0845 722 5225; www.gner.co.uk)

Great Central Railway
The Great Central Railway, which runs from Loughborough Central Station to Leicester North Station, lays claim to being the UK’s only mainline steam railway and is one of the few places in the world where scheduled full-size-steam trains pass each other on double track. From Loughborough Central the route takes passengers through Quorn and Wood-house, and Rothley and offers~ panoramic views all along he line. Great Central Railway (01509230726; www.gcrailway.co.uk).

North Yorkshire Moors Railway
The North Yorkshire Moors Railway is one of the longest “preserved” railways in the country, running through 18 miles of spectacular scenery between the southern terminus at Pickering to Grosmont, six miles from Whitby. The line travels through forest, rolling countryside and open moorland and winds its way through impressively steep valleys. It crosses both tumbling streams and the River Esk, with several waterfalls, interesting bridges and viaducts to be-seen along the way. Those with sharp eyes can spot deer, foxes, badgers, heron and kingfisher.
NorthYorshire Moors Railway (01751 472508; www.northyorkshiremoorsrailway.com).

The Royal Scotsman
The Royal Scotsman, frequently described by railway enthusiasts as the most luxurious train in the world, offers just 85 guests the ride of their life taking in classic Highland attractions such as romantic castles, private baronial homes and distilleries, not to mention breathtaking scenery. Mahogany-panelled State Cabins come as standard as do gastronomic delights in the dining car. There are various tours available, lasting from one to seven nights.
The Royal Scotsman (0845 077 2222,www.royalscotsman.com).

The Jacobite Steam Express
This four-day Journey begins in Preston and takes in Glasgow Central, Glasgow
Queen Street, Fort William and Mallaig. The Jacobite is pulled by three different steam locomotives, the LMS Black Five 45407, the LNER Kl 2-6-0 62005 and the LNER B1 4-6-0 61264. This tour for enthusiasts takes in classic West Highland scenery, including Ben Nevis, Loch Lomond, Crianiarich, Rannoch Moor and the famous seaseapes of the Mallaig line The Railway Touring Company (01583661500; Www.ruizwaytouringco~)

Bo’ness & Kinneil Railway
This line runs alongside the foreshore of the Firth of Forth, with fine views of the Ochil Hills. Birkhill Station has been re-established with the buildings re-erected from what was originally Monifieth Station, near Dundee. Passengers can visit the caverns of Birkhill Fireclay Mine, which includes 300 million-year-old fossils and displays on how the clay to make bricks was once mined.
The ScottishRailway Preservation Society (01506 825855; www.srps.org.uk/railway)

Talyllyn Railway
The railway began life in 1865, and two of the original locomotives and coaching stock are still in use today. The 2ft 8in-wuide track runs for seven or so miles along the beautiful Fathew Valley to Nant Gwernol, just three miles away from the lake that gives the railway its name. Much of the track runs through Snowdonia National Park
Ta lyllyn Railway Company (01 65 710472; www.tallylyn.co.uk).

Snowdon Mountain Railway
Since 1896 Brirain’s only cog railway has been ferrying passengers from Llanberis to the top of Snowdon in Wales. At 1,085 m (3,560ft), Snowdon is the highest peak in England and Wales and the railway runs to within 6 ft of the summit. The mountain is a place of legend:- it is said to be the burial place of the giant ogre Rhita and some believe that some of King Arthur’s knights still sleep beneath the mountain. If the weather permits, there are wonderful views from the summit.
The Snowdon Railway Company (0870 458 0033; www.snowdonraulway.co.uk0

Severn Valley Railway
The Severn Valley Railway was built between 1858 and 1862 and today is instantly recognisable from its numerous film appearances. Running through 16 miles of splendid scenery a1ong the Severn Valley and the River Severn, the line crosses from Kidderminster in Worcestershire to Brudgenorth in Shropshire, with stops at Bewey, Arley, Highley, Country Park Halt and Hampton Loade. The view of the countryside from the train is superb.
Severn ValleyRailway (01299 403816; www.svr.co.uk).

The British Pullman and the Northern Belle
Both these trains are operated by the Orient-Express group and both cover the best of the British countryside. The Royal Pullman (operates mostly in the South of England with destinations that include Blenheim Palace, York, Norwich, Leeds Castle and Worcester.
The Northern Belle runs throughout the UK and both trains reflect the golden age of travel of the 1930s. Day trips are available, making this an affordable luxury. The British Pullman and the Northern Belle (0845-077 2222; www.orient.express.com,)

ben_haines_london is offline  
Oct 12th, 2006, 05:06 AM
  #8  
 
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Dear Treesa,

I am afraid I have not taken the Trans Siberian Express. My feet have now gone into a poor state, and I no longer tour. I could have taken the train in the nineties, but I prefer a series of overnight journeys, with views of cities for a day each on the way. For example, in the nineties I started in Pakistan and came westward through Iran, Turkey and the Balkans to London. I enjoyed myself, and was impressed at the position women in I have gained for themselves. All bundled up they may be, but they run banking, travel, and hotels, and are keen to talk with the few western tourists in their cities.

If I did strike east of Moscow I should go via the Moslem states of central Asia, the roads of Marco Polo and the silk trade. There are trains all the way, and the Thomas Cook Overseas Rail Timetable is a book of dreams.

Ben Haines
ben_haines is offline  
Oct 12th, 2006, 07:38 PM
  #9  
 
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Thank you Ben for this post. I'm making note of the trains you list here and hope to be taking at least 2 of these over the course of this summer.
mcnyc is offline  
Oct 12th, 2006, 11:53 PM
  #10  
 
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and what about the Settle to Carlisle line - suposed to be most beautiful in the UK and the only normal' tran trip that has a tourist guide (person) on board
sashh is offline  
Oct 13th, 2006, 12:01 AM
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I agree that the Settle to Carlisle line is good. My Huddersfield sister and her husband are part of the large supporters club that prevented proposed closure, especially by promoting the line to tourists. You can take any train, or with the words Settle Carlisle steam you can ask Google to find you a trip behind a steam engine, with real beer in the buffet car.

Ben Haines
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Oct 16th, 2006, 11:08 AM
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thanx a lot Ben!
PalenqueBob is offline  
Oct 16th, 2006, 01:43 PM
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Another UK train trip not as often taken, but in my opinion is very scenic is the loop from Carlisle to Barrow up to Carnforth.
rogerdodger is offline  
Oct 19th, 2006, 08:21 AM
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ttt
PalenqueBob is offline  
Dec 28th, 2006, 12:43 PM
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ttt too bad good things like this get buried in Fodors Black Hole - seeing light of day again. thanks ben
PalenqueBob is offline  
Jan 1st, 2007, 11:39 AM
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I agree! Found this post while searching for info on Madrid.

Thank you, ben!
AnnMarie_C is offline  
Jan 17th, 2007, 03:42 PM
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bookmarking

Great post Ben. Thank you.
stella_p is offline  
Jan 22nd, 2007, 07:55 AM
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It was a pleasure. I do like it when a posting lives on like this.

Ben Haines
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Jan 22nd, 2007, 08:32 AM
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Ben

Thank you so much this information is just what I've been looking for.

All in one post,
EmilyS is offline  
Jan 22nd, 2007, 12:02 PM
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ttt
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