Good pub awards - UK
Jan 2nd, 2020, 05:10 AM
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Good pub awards - UK
As a lover of travel and beer, I frequently use the Good Pub Guide to direct me. The 2020 Guide is now out and it was nice to see two Lancashire pubs get into top spots - Inn at Whitewell (much favoured by the Royals) gets top pub award uand nearby Assheton Arms in Clitheroe gets best food pub. One of the top pubs is in Manchester which I hsd never heard of is the Wharf and will check it out once I emerge from dry January. I am surprised that so few Yorkshire or Cumbria pubs get recognition - both counties have historic and first class pubs including Yorke Arms, the Starr Inn at Harome, the Bull at Broughton to name but a few. Here is a link to the awards:
https://thegoodpubguide.co.uk/the-go...t-of-the-best/
https://thegoodpubguide.co.uk/the-go...t-of-the-best/
Jan 3rd, 2020, 07:55 AM
#3
mmm - interesting. I had a look at the entries for Cornwall and at least one of them was demolished at least 5 years ago, and another was severely damaged by fire last year and won't be reopening for another few months.
I would advise checking before making a special trip to any of the entries.
I would advise checking before making a special trip to any of the entries.
Jan 5th, 2020, 02:12 AM
#6
We live in Pendle, just across the hill from the Assheton Arms and a 30 minute drive from the Inn at Whitewell. Both surprised the hell out of me by being listed. The Assheton Arms used to be a landlord owned pub with great food and is now owned by a chain of maybe 10 pubs, several of which surround us, none of which have a great local reputation. Food tends to be OK but no more than that, including the Assheton Arms.
The Inn at Whitewell has always been overrated with iffy service (unless you are Royalty) and an off hand attitude from the owner and staff if you aren't a regular. Makes you wonder how these places get on these lists when there are lots of "as good if not better" places around. The Bull at Broughton is also inconsistent and we have been disappointed each time we've stopped there.
The Bay Horse at Roughlee is as good and is owned by the village and we have the White Swan in our village for great food.
The Inn at Whitewell has always been overrated with iffy service (unless you are Royalty) and an off hand attitude from the owner and staff if you aren't a regular. Makes you wonder how these places get on these lists when there are lots of "as good if not better" places around. The Bull at Broughton is also inconsistent and we have been disappointed each time we've stopped there.
The Bay Horse at Roughlee is as good and is owned by the village and we have the White Swan in our village for great food.
Jan 5th, 2020, 02:37 AM
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Merely the messenger - Inn at Whitewell is not one of my favourites - my biker friends prefer the Hark to Bounty in that area (but I've not got round to trying it). Lucky you Rubicund, love Roughlee and the White Bear but suspect that may now be quite "chainy". An old favourite of mine was the Horns Inn (nearing the Trough of Bowland) which was once owned by two farmers and frequented by "asylum" staff from nearby Whittingham on account of flag floors and bad mannered patrons (alas its gone upmarket). Much to my wife's annoyance ("We will be lucky to get out with a broken leg" ) I still prefer flag floors and bad mannered patrons and this preference has led to some near misses.
Jan 5th, 2020, 06:31 AM
#8
Much to my wife's annoyance ("We will be lucky to get out with a broken leg" ) I still prefer flag floors and bad mannered patrons and this preference has led to some near misses.>>
Those were my husband's preferences too, and fortunately there is no shortage of grumpy landlords in Cornwall. As for flag floors should you ever find yourself in Helston I can recommend the Blue Anchor, which as well as brewing its own ale called "Spingo" has a flag floor covered with sawdust. And please don't ask if they do food.
Those were my husband's preferences too, and fortunately there is no shortage of grumpy landlords in Cornwall. As for flag floors should you ever find yourself in Helston I can recommend the Blue Anchor, which as well as brewing its own ale called "Spingo" has a flag floor covered with sawdust. And please don't ask if they do food.
Jan 6th, 2020, 12:53 AM
#9
stevelyon, it's not the White Bear, which is part of a chain, but the White Swan, known locally as the Dirty Duck. It's definitely not a chain and has been recognised by the Michelin people. We had lunch at the Bay Horse at Roughlee yesterday and it was sensational. We used to go to the "Ye Old Horns Inn" many years ago and it was excellent. There's also the Parkers Arms in the Trough of Bowland which has great food and for good British food there's the Pack Horse at Widdop above Hebden Bridge on the fell top.
annhigh, nice to see you back in full flow. I've never quite understood the landlords that attempt to make a USP out of rudeness. Our US friends may find it "quaint" but I find it rude. If you want me to spend my hard earned with you, at least try to be happy about it and be polite.
annhigh, nice to see you back in full flow. I've never quite understood the landlords that attempt to make a USP out of rudeness. Our US friends may find it "quaint" but I find it rude. If you want me to spend my hard earned with you, at least try to be happy about it and be polite.
Jan 7th, 2020, 01:17 AM
#10
Thanks, Rubicund. I agree that I'd rather spend my money somewhere where my custom is going to be welcome. It's always amazed me how many grumpy people are drawn to a profession which one might assume would require a sunny disposition but some landlords [and ladies] seem to wear curmudgeonliness as a badge of honour.
Jan 7th, 2020, 05:41 AM
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"It's always amazed me how many grumpy people are drawn to a profession which..."
It's not the only example. At one stage, I moved from "running" (in the sense anyone runs anything in a multinational) one aspect of a Seven Sisters oil company's 20-odd thousand petrol stations to "running" (in the sense anyone runs anything in a government-controlled franchise business) Britain's then 18,000 post offices.
Both shared a similar feature: the outlets were run by people mostly motivated by sort-of working for themselves. This mattered far more than making more (or, often, any) money, staying in business, serving their customers or even being popular locally. Like in pubs: the overwhelming majority of operators owned the company operating the site, but all depended heavily on the sign over the business (which a mega bureaucracy owned) both to get customers in and for highly detailed requirements about how the business should be run.
Nonetheless: most of these franchisees seemed to get off more on running things their way than on anything else. And few ranked high on social skills.
Having subsequently had a decade or two to think about this (in a microtown with more surviving pubs than most our size), I've come to realise that a lot of this is the fault of the franchisor (or in the case of a lot of British pubs, the pubco owning what looks like a chain of free houses then renting them out individually), which too often accepts wildly unsuitable franchisees (because it's got more sites than operators), squeezes them almost to the point of (and often beyond) bankruptcy and provides no serious counselling on how to treat customers.
As for food and pubs: don't get me started. I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that, in today's rural Britain you can run a decent eaterie in what used to be a decent pub, and even get a few people continuing to use it as a pub. Or you can run a decent, food-free, drinking pub (with lots of crisps). But in 99% of surviving rural and microtown locations you can't do both. And the harder you try to, the likelier you are to mess up both business streams. You can do both in busy town centres, though. But it takes real technical and social skills.
It's not the only example. At one stage, I moved from "running" (in the sense anyone runs anything in a multinational) one aspect of a Seven Sisters oil company's 20-odd thousand petrol stations to "running" (in the sense anyone runs anything in a government-controlled franchise business) Britain's then 18,000 post offices.
Both shared a similar feature: the outlets were run by people mostly motivated by sort-of working for themselves. This mattered far more than making more (or, often, any) money, staying in business, serving their customers or even being popular locally. Like in pubs: the overwhelming majority of operators owned the company operating the site, but all depended heavily on the sign over the business (which a mega bureaucracy owned) both to get customers in and for highly detailed requirements about how the business should be run.
Nonetheless: most of these franchisees seemed to get off more on running things their way than on anything else. And few ranked high on social skills.
Having subsequently had a decade or two to think about this (in a microtown with more surviving pubs than most our size), I've come to realise that a lot of this is the fault of the franchisor (or in the case of a lot of British pubs, the pubco owning what looks like a chain of free houses then renting them out individually), which too often accepts wildly unsuitable franchisees (because it's got more sites than operators), squeezes them almost to the point of (and often beyond) bankruptcy and provides no serious counselling on how to treat customers.
As for food and pubs: don't get me started. I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that, in today's rural Britain you can run a decent eaterie in what used to be a decent pub, and even get a few people continuing to use it as a pub. Or you can run a decent, food-free, drinking pub (with lots of crisps). But in 99% of surviving rural and microtown locations you can't do both. And the harder you try to, the likelier you are to mess up both business streams. You can do both in busy town centres, though. But it takes real technical and social skills.
Jan 7th, 2020, 09:37 AM
#12
<<As for food and pubs: don't get me started. I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that, in today's rural Britain you can run a decent eaterie in what used to be a decent pub, and even get a few people continuing to use it as a pub. Or you can run a decent, food-free, drinking pub (with lots of crisps). But in 99% of surviving rural and microtown locations you can't do both. And the harder you try to, the likelier you are to mess up both business streams. You can do both in busy town centres, though. But it takes real technical and social skills.>>
I think you've hit on something there, Flanner. I suspect that it's partly because those who go into the industry do it either because they want to run a "pub" and therefore are concentrating on the booze side of the business, or because they want a "gastropub" in which to cook. Rarely do these two interests coincide. And as you say it's difficult to get enough custom for both sides of such a business outside a busy city or town.
I think you've hit on something there, Flanner. I suspect that it's partly because those who go into the industry do it either because they want to run a "pub" and therefore are concentrating on the booze side of the business, or because they want a "gastropub" in which to cook. Rarely do these two interests coincide. And as you say it's difficult to get enough custom for both sides of such a business outside a busy city or town.
Jan 8th, 2020, 12:37 AM
#13
"which too often accepts wildly unsuitable franchisees (because it's got more sites than operators), squeezes them almost to the point of (and often beyond) bankruptcy"
Amen to that. Our nearest local was 150 yards from my door and when the long time landlord/owners sold what was a very successful village pub, it was bought by a chain (non brewing). They proceeded to keep hiking the rent and put three tenants out of business, with the place standing empty for months in between. When a new tenant came in, they dropped the rent and then hiked it again till the pips squeaked.. After the last tenant they put it up for sale and six new houses now stand on the footprint.
There are three other locals within a mile or so that experienced the same, two of which were sold and both brought in a good food offering and now prosper. The third became a restaurant.
The owners of the chain must have lost money with pubs standing empty and not bringing in rent, but persisted in rolling out the same business model over and over.
Amen to that. Our nearest local was 150 yards from my door and when the long time landlord/owners sold what was a very successful village pub, it was bought by a chain (non brewing). They proceeded to keep hiking the rent and put three tenants out of business, with the place standing empty for months in between. When a new tenant came in, they dropped the rent and then hiked it again till the pips squeaked.. After the last tenant they put it up for sale and six new houses now stand on the footprint.
There are three other locals within a mile or so that experienced the same, two of which were sold and both brought in a good food offering and now prosper. The third became a restaurant.
The owners of the chain must have lost money with pubs standing empty and not bringing in rent, but persisted in rolling out the same business model over and over.
Jan 8th, 2020, 06:38 AM
#14
The owners of the chain must have lost money with pubs standing empty and not bringing in rent, but persisted in rolling out the same business model over and over.>>
That seems to happen a lot, Rubicund, and I agree that it's inexplicable. It's almost as if they would rather see a pub go under so they can sell it off for housing than see it prosper with a slightly reduced profit margin.
That seems to happen a lot, Rubicund, and I agree that it's inexplicable. It's almost as if they would rather see a pub go under so they can sell it off for housing than see it prosper with a slightly reduced profit margin.
Jan 13th, 2020, 04:28 AM
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The Hairy Bikers have a re-run of their Pubs in Gt Britain on BBC2 starting today... beginning with Yorkshire pubs. Incidentally, I was in a pub local to the Hairy Bikers when I was threatened to be evicted. They didn't like "tourists". Myself and Mrs Lyon was on one of our jaunts where we were checking out potential places to retire to (guided by the Sunday Times 'Best Places to Live') - needless to say it didn't make our short list.
Jan 14th, 2020, 12:14 AM
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"That seems to happen a lot, Rubicund, and I agree that it's inexplicable. It's almost as if they would rather see a pub go under so they can sell it off for housing than see it prosper with a slightly reduced profit margin"
Not remotely inexplicable. Five years ago, one of the (in this case, independent) pubs in my microtown did exactly that. They owned a pub worth about £300k as a going concern (and they'd be lucky to find a buyer), they were losing money, so a "slightly reduced profit" would bankrupt them - or they could sell it as a house and get at least £1 million.
Fortunately they'd grotesquely mismanaged the place, so the town politicians had a no-brainer decision. We applied to the District Council for an Asset of Community Value order, preventing its being sold, except as a pub. That, sadly, forced them to keep trading at a loss - though they'd managed to lose all sympathy so the town was prepared to live with that. But it also forced them to accept a <£300k offer from an entrepreneur who turned it into a slightly different kind of pub. Oddly, almost no local residents use it any more, but it's brought a different kind of tourist into the town, so almost everyone (except the ex-landlord) is happy
The truth is that we've got a national housing shortage, most pubs can easily be turned into a house or houses and we manifestly haven't got a national pub shortage. There are very few cases like ours - or like Rubicund's examples of easy restaurant conversion. Turning a boozer into several houses is often the best option for everyone - except CAMRA romantics.
Incidentally, Stevelyon. It's amazing how quickly an incomer to a popular retirement location starts resenting "tourists" contaminating a popular local boozer. Or how deeply long-standing locals - particularly in a village the Sunday Times has decided is one of Britain's Best Places to Live - can resent outsiders changing the place they were born in - and driving local house prices above what their children can afford. No-one renting Housing Association property ever asks the Sunday Times to boost their "idyllic" village.
That "inexplicable" landlord may be an honest spokesman for rarely-voiced concerns from the left-behind.
Not remotely inexplicable. Five years ago, one of the (in this case, independent) pubs in my microtown did exactly that. They owned a pub worth about £300k as a going concern (and they'd be lucky to find a buyer), they were losing money, so a "slightly reduced profit" would bankrupt them - or they could sell it as a house and get at least £1 million.
Fortunately they'd grotesquely mismanaged the place, so the town politicians had a no-brainer decision. We applied to the District Council for an Asset of Community Value order, preventing its being sold, except as a pub. That, sadly, forced them to keep trading at a loss - though they'd managed to lose all sympathy so the town was prepared to live with that. But it also forced them to accept a <£300k offer from an entrepreneur who turned it into a slightly different kind of pub. Oddly, almost no local residents use it any more, but it's brought a different kind of tourist into the town, so almost everyone (except the ex-landlord) is happy
The truth is that we've got a national housing shortage, most pubs can easily be turned into a house or houses and we manifestly haven't got a national pub shortage. There are very few cases like ours - or like Rubicund's examples of easy restaurant conversion. Turning a boozer into several houses is often the best option for everyone - except CAMRA romantics.
Incidentally, Stevelyon. It's amazing how quickly an incomer to a popular retirement location starts resenting "tourists" contaminating a popular local boozer. Or how deeply long-standing locals - particularly in a village the Sunday Times has decided is one of Britain's Best Places to Live - can resent outsiders changing the place they were born in - and driving local house prices above what their children can afford. No-one renting Housing Association property ever asks the Sunday Times to boost their "idyllic" village.
That "inexplicable" landlord may be an honest spokesman for rarely-voiced concerns from the left-behind.
