HowardR

xyzabc makes a good point about cashing a check at an Amex office if you have an Amex card. I now carry a blank check instead of travelers checks as my "just in case" money.

Budman

Last February flew into CDG, and the ATM happened to be working. But you know what? -- even if it was out of order or out of money, the taxis take credit cards and/or I'm sure the driver wouldn't mind taking you to an ATM to get your Euros on the way to your hotel while the meter is running.

If you're really convicted that you need Euros, get $20/40 worth at the exchange kiosk in the airport, then bring some back so you'll have them for your next trip.

I detest banks & all their fees, and I avoid them at all costs.

clevelandbrown

MsAudie,
I think some of the confusion is that the people you talk to at your bank usually are not familiar with all of the policies, and I'm not sure anyone is.

I have a debit card (actually, my wife has one also, in case we lose one) that allows me to withdraw an amount set by my bank daily. Understand that the owner of the foreign atm also places a daily limit on withdrawals, so you may not be able to withdraw all your own bank would allow without using a second atm (or a second card). If I use it stateside, the bank owning the atm charges a fee, and my bank subsequently refunds the fee (I have that rarest of commodities, a good bank). If I use the card overseas (as I have in both Europe and Asia), the owner of the atm does not charge a fee, and from talking to others I believe this practice (no fee for using overseas atms) is universal.

However, any time you use the network to exchange currencies, the network charges a 1% service fee, and does the exchange at the commercial rate, which is the best rate. This fee applies to both debit cards and credit cards. Unfortunately, apparently a large number of card issuers (banks) ad an additional percent or two to this charge. The obvious solution is to deal with a bank that doesn't ad such a surcharge, and I think some have been posted here.

Getting a cash advance from a credit card carries the same costs, however, it is a cash advance, so you begin accruing interest at a usurious rate immediately, and they have a clever way of charging interest for two months, even if you pay your bill on time. Someone once suggested prepaying your credit card as a way to avoid the interest charge, and that might work, but I have not looked into it.

Merchants and money changers are among the most expensive ways to get money, and I would avoid them at all costs. There are enough atms in the world that you should never be far from one.

I am among those who advocate waiting until you arrive to get some local currency. I have done this many times, with the only problem being an atm that was out of order, with a working one immediately beside it. Of course, on second or subsequent trips, you will probably have some leftover currency from your initial trip, and if you know someone who has already been where you are going, perhaps they could make you a deal. I know the banks in my community are very reluctant to deal with exchanges, and charge a lot to avoid having to do it. If you try to get foreign currency locally (other than from a friend, as above), you will face dealing with bad exchange rates, fees, and delivery fees, that will make it a very expensive transaction; better to save that money to spend on your trip, IMHO.

Also, historical reports here indicate that European atms work only with four-digit pins, and only when the debit card is tied to a checking, not savings, account. I don't know if that is still true. I have always had a four-digit pin, and the card is tied to my checking account, and has always, knock on wood, worked.

Enjoy your trip.

Budman

clevelandbrown -- well said.

Additionally, if you need more cash than your ATM Debit card will allow in one day, I use my M/C for a cash advance. Since I do all my banking on line, when I return from my trip, I immediately transfer funds from my banking (checking) account to pay my M/C account. When I eventually receive my M/C statement, the accrued interest is minimal.

xyz123

...provided the bank does not put an absurd charge for each cash advance. Many banks charge as much as 10USD for a cash advance in addition to interest; although indeed there are some which charge little or nothing.

ira

Hey budman,

Ask your bank to raise your daily limit. It's cheaper than a cash advance, which accrues interest from te moment you get the money.

xyz123

BTW...

On a related topic, we have read all about how dreadful the US dollar rate has become against the Euro. When originally introduced, the idea was for €1=$1.17...the fact is today it is €1=$1.208 an increase of less than 4%. Of course nobody dreamed that at one point it would be €1=$0.85 but one is beginning to think that was the abberation. Exchange rates are close to what the Euro nations wanted it to be when it was introduced.

Budman

ira, I was just providing that to others for an alternative. I don't keep a lot of money in my checking account. When I travel I would rather use other people's money. I charge everything, and I use the cards that have just recently cycled so I get up to 50 days free interest. I use banks that don't charge those ridiculous fees.

clevelandbrown

Budman: I too bank on line. In fact my bank is in Texas while I am in Cleveland. I was a little leery when I got my first debit card, as I have yet to have a merchant verify that I am who I am when I have used the card, and I didn't want to give a thief the chance to get all my money. I'm not yet confident of the protections offered with these cards, while with credit cards I feel well protected, having had a few instances of bogus charges removed with little difficulty.

With online banking, however, I can keep a very low balance in my checking account, and transfer money immediately from my savings or money market accounts when I need it. If someone stole my debit card today, for example, all they could get would be $42, so I'm comfortable with using the card. Online capacity, IMHO, is an absolute necessity before I will deal with a bank.

Budman

clevelandbrown, mine is in Texas also, and I live in NJ.

My debit card is also a VISA. I'm going to have that changed to strictly a debit card for ATM use only with a Pin. I've realized that if I should lose my debit/VISA, someone without the pin could empty out my checking and my guaranteed checking amount by strictly using the VISA portion. I'm sure it would be a nightmare trying to get all that money credited back to my checking account once I reported the loss. If I lose the ATM card - no loss.

If I lose my M/C and somebody charges it up, I am not out of pocket while trying to straighten it out.

Just a few travel tips for those interested.

ira

>I was a little leery when I got my first debit card, as I have yet to have a merchant verify that I am who I am when I have used the card, and I didn't want to give a thief the chance to get all my money. <

You have a combination debit/credit card. Using it as a CC, a thief can run up a large bill (for which you are liable for no more than $50 if it is a US card), but it cannot be used to access your bank account without a PIN.

Try it at home. You will see that you need a PIN if you use it as a debit or ATM card.

NorthSideSue

My CitiBank debit card is also a credit card, but even when I use it as a credit card, the amount is immediately deducted from my checkimg account, so it is not treated as a cash advance.

ira

Hi Sue,

You have one of those "check cards".

When you use it as a "credit card", do you have to use a PIN?

Budman

Sue,

<My CitiBank debit card is also a credit card>

Yes, but the problem would exist if you lost the card, someone would not be able to use it in an ATM machine because they wouldn't have your Pin, BUT, if they used the stolen card as a "credit card," then they would wipe out your checking account. When you use it as a VISA or M/C, you don't need a Pin. Still comes out of your checking account.

Travelnut

I think the above posts are referring to a "check card" with a Visa logo. Regardless of whether you use a PIN or it is treated as a Visa "credit card", all transactions are deducted from your checking account. The "credit card" function is not really credit at all; because it is processed as a Visa transaction with a 16-digit number starting with a 4 (Visa card start w/ 4, MasterCard starts w/ 5) any merchant who can accept credit cards can also accept your check card - but the transactions/charges go against your bank balance.
A PIN is used at a merchant that offers "Point of Sale" transactions.

bob_brown

How can a piece of financial plastic be both a credit card and a check card at the same time? Credit card and debit card transactions are horses of two different breeds. I sense the usual lack of crisp definitions when discussing financial plastic.

But that is nothing new. Some people who write here don't know the difference between using an ATM card for cash withdrawals and using a credit card for the same purpose. Both of them cause ATM machines to spew money. Right? So what is the difference?

Budman

Bob, there's a big difference.

An ATM card, a Visa or M/C debit card, or a ATM Visa Check card, or an ATM M/C check card -- The money comes directly out of your bank's checking account. The debit portion is used when you enter your pin. The credit card portion is used when you sign for a purchase. It all comes out of your checking account.

A credit card, Visa or M/C used in an ATM machine is considered a "cash advance" on that credit card. When you get your monthly statement, you pay it along with all the other credit card charges that you have made on your trip such as hotel/restaurants/shops. The only difference is, the cash advance accrues interest from the time you use it. The other transactions do not as long as you pay the balance in full when you get your statement.

So, that piece of plastic can be used as a debit card and a credit card at the same time. When you use the ATM, the money is debited from your checking account. When you use the Visa or M/C portion of the card, the money is debited from your checking account.

rkkwan

Budman - If all money comes out from your checking account at all times, than it is NOT a credit card, period.

Credit card means a credit line which you can borrow against for purchases. What you're describing does not qualify. You need to understand the nomenclature.

ira

I think the point here is that you want an ATM card that debits your checking account and has a PIN for getting cash, and a credit card that doesn't access your checking account.

Those check cards are dangerous.

Budman

We're really making a meal out of this!!

<If all money comes out from your checking account at all times, than it is NOT a credit card, period.>

It's both a debit card and a credit card -- it depends on how you use it. It's a debit card when you use an ATM and put in your pin, and it's a credit card when you use the VISA or M/C portion of the card and sign for the purchase.

There, that's the nomenclature.