Getting around in Tuscany
Oct 12th, 2013, 11:39 PM
#21
would you be intending to eat in every night? if so, i think I'd want to know what I was going to be eating. the website of la corte del papa gives me no clue whatever as to what is available and what it costs. perhaps the guests who stay there have bottomless pockets.
if you are thinking however that you might like to eat elsewhere, how far is it from other restaurants? if you are wine lovers, it's worth remembering that one of you will have to drive home. The advantage of the sort of hotel mentioned by grasshopper upthread is that you have the dual advantages of the views and feel of the countryside, but also of being able to walk into the town for eating and drinking.
if you are thinking however that you might like to eat elsewhere, how far is it from other restaurants? if you are wine lovers, it's worth remembering that one of you will have to drive home. The advantage of the sort of hotel mentioned by grasshopper upthread is that you have the dual advantages of the views and feel of the countryside, but also of being able to walk into the town for eating and drinking.
Oct 13th, 2013, 08:36 AM
#22
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It's true, Cortona is not in the heart of Chianti, which delivers a singular characteristic look called "Tuscan." But Multipulciano and the surrounding hillsides offer similar "Tuscan" views. La Corte dei Papi is southeast of Cortona by less than 4 miles, and Montepulciano is just 20 miles away. It's not as if the glorious colors of a Tuscan landscape disappear the second you cross into Umbria. Certainly, many of the postcards sold in Cortona of the surrounding area show "Tuscan" views from the area.
Cortona figures prominently in Frances Mayes' book, "Under the Tuscan Sun." But long before the book's fame, Cortona was known as a classic Tuscan hill town. It's known for its beautiful perch and views, its early Etruscan settlements (the ruins are still visible), and art lovers know that Cortona is home to Renaissance painter Luca Signorelli, Baroque master Pietro da Cortona (Berretini), and the 20th-century Futurist artist Gino Severini.
Val d'Orcia, Montalcino, Pienza, Montepulciano are indeed lovely and more popular, especially with tourists who don't wish to drive "too far" or expand their exploration beyond a 30-minute drive. But I would argue, if you have good navigation skills and a strong sense of adventure, the area around Cortona offers a ton of diversity. You can take a morning and explore Perugia, and take an afternoon and explore Montepulciano. And then take another morning and explore Siena and another afternoon to visit Val d'Orcia.
The winding, beautiful hillside roads may turn a 20-mile drive into a 45-minute excursion, but, for me, the pleasure of driving further in new territory far outweighs the inconvenience of taking a wrong turn and the challenge of setting a correct course. Simply start your day very early, and plan on being closer to home near sunset.
Cortona figures prominently in Frances Mayes' book, "Under the Tuscan Sun." But long before the book's fame, Cortona was known as a classic Tuscan hill town. It's known for its beautiful perch and views, its early Etruscan settlements (the ruins are still visible), and art lovers know that Cortona is home to Renaissance painter Luca Signorelli, Baroque master Pietro da Cortona (Berretini), and the 20th-century Futurist artist Gino Severini.
Val d'Orcia, Montalcino, Pienza, Montepulciano are indeed lovely and more popular, especially with tourists who don't wish to drive "too far" or expand their exploration beyond a 30-minute drive. But I would argue, if you have good navigation skills and a strong sense of adventure, the area around Cortona offers a ton of diversity. You can take a morning and explore Perugia, and take an afternoon and explore Montepulciano. And then take another morning and explore Siena and another afternoon to visit Val d'Orcia.
The winding, beautiful hillside roads may turn a 20-mile drive into a 45-minute excursion, but, for me, the pleasure of driving further in new territory far outweighs the inconvenience of taking a wrong turn and the challenge of setting a correct course. Simply start your day very early, and plan on being closer to home near sunset.
Oct 13th, 2013, 08:46 AM
#23
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annhig, I agree there could be a little more information about the restaurant on their web site but the food pictures at least look OK 
Honestly, although the hotel restaurant is something of a factor I certainly wouldn't avoid the hotel based on that. The reviews I have read are very positive (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Rev...o_Tuscany.html). Also, we will have a car and we are not into wine too much - I am perfectly capable of having a great night out with my wife without the need to drink So driving to a local restaurant is no problem at all. Actually, on reflection, it's a positive requirement for me to NOT eat at the same restaurant. I'd much rather try a few alternatives and with four nights it shouldn't be a problem.
Thanks.
Mark
Honestly, although the hotel restaurant is something of a factor I certainly wouldn't avoid the hotel based on that. The reviews I have read are very positive (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Rev...o_Tuscany.html). Also, we will have a car and we are not into wine too much - I am perfectly capable of having a great night out with my wife without the need to drink So driving to a local restaurant is no problem at all. Actually, on reflection, it's a positive requirement for me to NOT eat at the same restaurant. I'd much rather try a few alternatives and with four nights it shouldn't be a problem.Thanks.
Mark
Oct 13th, 2013, 08:50 AM
#24
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NYCFoodSnob, totally with you on that! I am researching the overall location here but, beyond that, I am very excited about just exploring the area in a rather ad-hoc fashion, from our hotel base. That's always a balance, of course. But providing we are generally in a beautiful environment (which, frankly, seems assured in this part of the world), the last thing I want is things mapped our precisely at the start of the day (one reason we are not into organized tours, by the way). I love the element of discovery and I have read such good things about Cortona.
Thanks.
Mark
Thanks.
Mark
Oct 14th, 2013, 05:54 AM
#25
So driving to a local restaurant is no problem at all. Actually, on reflection, it's a positive requirement for me to NOT eat at the same restaurant. I'd much rather try a few alternatives and with four nights it shouldn't be a problem.>>
just so long as there ARE at least 4 restaurants close enough for you to want to drive back to your accommodation at night. In September it is likely to be dark by the time you have finished eating.
Ann - i'm sure that your invitation is well meant, but advertising is not allowed here, and that is what you are doing.
just so long as there ARE at least 4 restaurants close enough for you to want to drive back to your accommodation at night. In September it is likely to be dark by the time you have finished eating.
Ann - i'm sure that your invitation is well meant, but advertising is not allowed here, and that is what you are doing.
Oct 14th, 2013, 06:32 AM
#26
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People who like to play school-marm should get a job in a school, disciplining children who misbehave.
It's no secret that I promote my share of travel in a style that I own. If I invite travelers to visit my tiny island of Manhattan, am I advertising? I don't think so.
Fodor's rules for posters who work in travel related services state: <i>"If you represent a commercial business (e.g., travel agency, hotel, airline) or charitable organization, please post the URL to the relevant site in your member profile instead of linking to it in your posts."</i>
It seems to me that Ann Alexander of Montisi Magica is not breaking any rules. I don't see a "commercial" posting by MontisiMagica. MontisiMagica is merely suggesting that MarkWill consider the charming Medieval/Tuscan town of Montisi, where Ann happens to live and work. Since Montisi is not well known to tourists, and it happens to be a stone's throw from Montepulciano, I see great opportunity here for high-value information.
There are a lot of people who work in the travel industry who offer keen insight to experienced and inexperienced travelers. They should not be discouraged from posting here. They should be welcomed and thanked. As long as pro-travel users play by Fodor's rules, closet school-marms should mind their manners.
Montisi is a lovely place, if quiet authenticity on a charming Tuscan hilltop appeals to you. It's a little difficult to find in the dark (and perhaps in the light if you're not a very good driver or map reader), but Montisi is a special place for a tourist seeking a unique adventure. I think it's great that Ann Alexander mentioned it. I have a feeling MarkWill never heard of it.
It's no secret that I promote my share of travel in a style that I own. If I invite travelers to visit my tiny island of Manhattan, am I advertising? I don't think so.
Fodor's rules for posters who work in travel related services state: <i>"If you represent a commercial business (e.g., travel agency, hotel, airline) or charitable organization, please post the URL to the relevant site in your member profile instead of linking to it in your posts."</i>
It seems to me that Ann Alexander of Montisi Magica is not breaking any rules. I don't see a "commercial" posting by MontisiMagica. MontisiMagica is merely suggesting that MarkWill consider the charming Medieval/Tuscan town of Montisi, where Ann happens to live and work. Since Montisi is not well known to tourists, and it happens to be a stone's throw from Montepulciano, I see great opportunity here for high-value information.
There are a lot of people who work in the travel industry who offer keen insight to experienced and inexperienced travelers. They should not be discouraged from posting here. They should be welcomed and thanked. As long as pro-travel users play by Fodor's rules, closet school-marms should mind their manners.
Montisi is a lovely place, if quiet authenticity on a charming Tuscan hilltop appeals to you. It's a little difficult to find in the dark (and perhaps in the light if you're not a very good driver or map reader), but Montisi is a special place for a tourist seeking a unique adventure. I think it's great that Ann Alexander mentioned it. I have a feeling MarkWill never heard of it.
Oct 14th, 2013, 10:01 AM
#27
None of my guests has ever wanted to leave! And there is so much to do if you want - you can have cookery classes, learn how to pair wines and cheeses, have wonderful walks and enjoy the magic this area of Tuscany has to offer!
Let me know if you would like more info and whatever you do, I hope you have a wonderful trip.>>
NYCFoodSnob - Had you bothered to read Montisi Magica's profile, you would find a link to her eponymous website on which she is offering cookery, painting and other courses on a commercial basis. Had she stopped at simply lauding the area in which she lives, that would have been fine, but she goes onto say this:
<<None of my guests has ever wanted to leave! And there is so much to do if you want - you can have cookery classes, learn how to pair wines and cheeses, have wonderful walks and enjoy the magic this area of Tuscany has to offer!>>
what is that if not advertising? subtle advertising, but advertising nevertheless.
And as for minding my manners, I was more polite to Ann than you have been to me.
Let me know if you would like more info and whatever you do, I hope you have a wonderful trip.>>
NYCFoodSnob - Had you bothered to read Montisi Magica's profile, you would find a link to her eponymous website on which she is offering cookery, painting and other courses on a commercial basis. Had she stopped at simply lauding the area in which she lives, that would have been fine, but she goes onto say this:
<<None of my guests has ever wanted to leave! And there is so much to do if you want - you can have cookery classes, learn how to pair wines and cheeses, have wonderful walks and enjoy the magic this area of Tuscany has to offer!>>
what is that if not advertising? subtle advertising, but advertising nevertheless.
And as for minding my manners, I was more polite to Ann than you have been to me.
Oct 14th, 2013, 10:15 AM
#29
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Regarding Cortona, yes, it's a very beautiful, interesting, and historical place...and I absolutely despise it in high season. I've never been in any town anywhere in Europe that was more thronged with huge, loud groups of Americans. It was like rue Cler on steroids (and I was in the area for 6 weeks and went to Cortona a few times and had the same experience every time). Went back in mid-October and loved the place. Hope it's that good in September, too. I also love the area around Lago Trasimeno and Panicale and Paciano and all the lovely little towns around there.
Oct 14th, 2013, 11:05 AM
#30
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<i><font color=#555555>"Had you bothered to read Montisi Magica's profile"</font></i>
Dear, I read it long before your condescending assumption.
<i><font color=#555555>"what is that if not advertising? subtle advertising, but advertising nevertheless."</font></i>
So Fodor's made you the hall monitor, put you in charge of determining what was "subtle" advertising? At what point is it OK for adults to exit high school?
When my guests visit me in NYC or in Venice, they don't want to leave either. Am I really advertising my employment services by saying so? Intent matters. Tell me, annhig, do you have special mind-reading powers?
<i><font color=#555555>"I've never been in any town anywhere in Europe that was more thronged with huge, loud groups of Americans."</font></i>
They may not be Americans (most are staying away due to the exchange rate and the high cost of airline travel), but loud groups of Brits, Russians, and Germans have recently invaded Venice.
The table of six seated next to me at a recent visit to Da Fiore was the most thoughtless, tasteless, drunken group of arrogant people I've ever had to tolerate at a famous restaurant. And I wasn't the only patron who complained to Signore Martin. This pathetic group did not hail from America.
On any given day in Europe's high season, a classy, elegant, highly educated, well-dressed tourist can be accosted by the sound of vulgar, obnoxious, unsophisticated travelers and their awful clothing choices. What can one do? Any suggestion, that Cortona receives an abundance of one nationality, guilty of loud, group travel, makes me laugh.
Dear, I read it long before your condescending assumption.
<i><font color=#555555>"what is that if not advertising? subtle advertising, but advertising nevertheless."</font></i>
So Fodor's made you the hall monitor, put you in charge of determining what was "subtle" advertising? At what point is it OK for adults to exit high school?
When my guests visit me in NYC or in Venice, they don't want to leave either. Am I really advertising my employment services by saying so? Intent matters. Tell me, annhig, do you have special mind-reading powers?
<i><font color=#555555>"I've never been in any town anywhere in Europe that was more thronged with huge, loud groups of Americans."</font></i>
They may not be Americans (most are staying away due to the exchange rate and the high cost of airline travel), but loud groups of Brits, Russians, and Germans have recently invaded Venice.
The table of six seated next to me at a recent visit to Da Fiore was the most thoughtless, tasteless, drunken group of arrogant people I've ever had to tolerate at a famous restaurant. And I wasn't the only patron who complained to Signore Martin. This pathetic group did not hail from America.
On any given day in Europe's high season, a classy, elegant, highly educated, well-dressed tourist can be accosted by the sound of vulgar, obnoxious, unsophisticated travelers and their awful clothing choices. What can one do? Any suggestion, that Cortona receives an abundance of one nationality, guilty of loud, group travel, makes me laugh.
Oct 14th, 2013, 11:10 AM
#31
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I am quite able to distinguish obnoxious Americans from obnoxious groups that hail from elsewhere. There were of course tourists from all over, but the vast majority were Americans, quite obviously so. Whether that translates to Cortona getting an abundance of one nationality, I wouldn't know, and didn't say so.
Oct 14th, 2013, 11:22 AM
#32
Dear, I read it long before your condescending assumption.>>
who's being condescending now?
I cannot believe that you are really so incapable of seeing the difference between your disinterested recommending of NYC to your personal friends, and Ann Alexander's praise of Montisi and her mentioning of her own commercial interests in getting the OP and others to go there and use her services.
just because she doesn't actually put the link to her website in her post does not prevent its being advertising; her screen name makes the fact that she is a commercial organisation perfectly obvious. I don't need powers of telepathy to work that out and neither do you.
and who, for that matter, made YOU thread monitor? you choose to disagree with me, that's fair enough, but there's no need to be offensive with it.
who's being condescending now?
I cannot believe that you are really so incapable of seeing the difference between your disinterested recommending of NYC to your personal friends, and Ann Alexander's praise of Montisi and her mentioning of her own commercial interests in getting the OP and others to go there and use her services.
just because she doesn't actually put the link to her website in her post does not prevent its being advertising; her screen name makes the fact that she is a commercial organisation perfectly obvious. I don't need powers of telepathy to work that out and neither do you.
and who, for that matter, made YOU thread monitor? you choose to disagree with me, that's fair enough, but there's no need to be offensive with it.
Oct 14th, 2013, 11:46 AM
#33
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I find unauthorized hall monitors in an adult environment extremely offensive. I feel the same about adults who behave like children.
If Fodor's DID NOT want travel associates to post here, it would say so in their rules. I believe MontisiMagica followed the rules here, and I don't view her suggestion of her home town as "commercial" advertising. Since I work in advertising, I know what Fodor's means by "commercial."
If Fodor's DID NOT want travel associates to post here, it would say so in their rules. I believe MontisiMagica followed the rules here, and I don't view her suggestion of her home town as "commercial" advertising. Since I work in advertising, I know what Fodor's means by "commercial."
Oct 14th, 2013, 12:05 PM
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If you google 'Montisi Magica' you will find that it IS indeed a commercial endeavor. I think annhig let the other Ann know in a nice way about ads.
NYCFoodSnob, you owe annhig an apology.
Back to OP, I agree it's much easier to take the ferry without the car. We were in Bellagio over Easter weekend and there were quite a few car backups. It might not be so crowded in September. I do hope you'll do a trip report.
NYCFoodSnob, you owe annhig an apology.
Back to OP, I agree it's much easier to take the ferry without the car. We were in Bellagio over Easter weekend and there were quite a few car backups. It might not be so crowded in September. I do hope you'll do a trip report.
Oct 14th, 2013, 02:59 PM
#38
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Nah, it's ours now.
Seriously, I've spent a lot of time working and visiting in Tuscany. I think the landscape and small towns are wonderful for exploring. I also think Lake Como is perfect for wallowing and reflecting.
However, I get the feeling that you know exactly what you want to do. I can only repeat the advice given to use boats and not a car on Lake Como.
Seriously, I've spent a lot of time working and visiting in Tuscany. I think the landscape and small towns are wonderful for exploring. I also think Lake Como is perfect for wallowing and reflecting.
However, I get the feeling that you know exactly what you want to do. I can only repeat the advice given to use boats and not a car on Lake Como.
Oct 14th, 2013, 03:01 PM
#39
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<i><font color=#555555>"Well you certainly stand out as one."</font></i>
Takes one to know one, for sure. I do love testing the pestiferous waters on this board. Always have. But my pitch and tone has softened through the years, and I prefer my current singing voice. Love you, StCirq.
<i><font color=#555555>"you owe annhig an apology"</font></i>
I don't apologize to hall monitors. It is extremely difficult to make any money in the travel business. I see no reason to knock a person down, especially a one-woman operation in a tiny town with few visitors, for trying to succeed because she has the gift of hospitality in her bones and likes to share. Fodor's has moderators. Only they know how they define "commercial advertising."
<i><font color=#555555>"Can I have my thread back please?"</font></i>
Gladly.
Takes one to know one, for sure. I do love testing the pestiferous waters on this board. Always have. But my pitch and tone has softened through the years, and I prefer my current singing voice. Love you, StCirq.
<i><font color=#555555>"you owe annhig an apology"</font></i>
I don't apologize to hall monitors. It is extremely difficult to make any money in the travel business. I see no reason to knock a person down, especially a one-woman operation in a tiny town with few visitors, for trying to succeed because she has the gift of hospitality in her bones and likes to share. Fodor's has moderators. Only they know how they define "commercial advertising."
<i><font color=#555555>"Can I have my thread back please?"</font></i>
Gladly.
Oct 14th, 2013, 08:22 PM
#40
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I'm going to assume that little tiff is over and just plough on with my questions and comments...
tuscanlifeedit, I'm not sure if something got lost along the way, but regarding the comment about using boats, not a car, in Lake Como that's EXACTLY what I intend to do, based on the suggestion in this thread. That's an excellent suggestion.
My plan is to be at a hotel in Rome for five days (no car needed), rent a car when we leave Rome, keep it during our stay in Tuscany and return it the day we arrive in Lake Como.
I'm guessing we will pay a pretty penny since we are returning the car to a different location from where we picked it up but at least it's in the same country, so hopefully not daft money.
Thanks.
Mark
tuscanlifeedit, I'm not sure if something got lost along the way, but regarding the comment about using boats, not a car, in Lake Como that's EXACTLY what I intend to do, based on the suggestion in this thread. That's an excellent suggestion.
My plan is to be at a hotel in Rome for five days (no car needed), rent a car when we leave Rome, keep it during our stay in Tuscany and return it the day we arrive in Lake Como.
I'm guessing we will pay a pretty penny since we are returning the car to a different location from where we picked it up but at least it's in the same country, so hopefully not daft money.
Thanks.
Mark
