Is there any evidence that "sullivan" DOES clutter up the unliked posts by responding to them? I don't think so. <BR> <BR>Started a new post - - which maybe RMC should have done. <BR>

Some people may not have time to go search the library, or easy access to one. Same for book stores. The bottom line really is that this forum is for anyone and everyone, and all can post whatever questions they like. If you don't like their questions, don't respond. Rather than gripe about posts, why not write a friendly post suggesting ways to research for a trip, or ways to post questions effectively or whatever.

Well Rex. Getting to the library is not always such an easy choice. I live in the Adirondacks and the closest library is 27 miles away, has limited hours and only guidbooks there are outdated. For instance,Greece 1997, Rome 1992, Hawaii 1999. Forget about Kenya, Maldives or other far away places. People who buy books for our library do not think there is need for travel guidebooks. I do get to Barnes and Nobles in Burlington once a while. Meanwhile I visit this forum. And I never posted any questions here but I will ask questions about our trip to Amsterdam if that's OK with you Rex and others who have their own way to prepare for a trip and think we all should do their way. <BR>

I'm a regular, but right now I'm too ashamed to be put in that category with those of you who are arrogent enough to think that you can take a forum NOT designed or paid for by you and dictate how one should go about using it. <BR>Rex: You "roll your eyes...?" I suppose your question about "did you get your pin" was much more appropriate and relative to actual travel? Or the false editor's post? That was a wise and well-thought out use of forum space! <BR>Everyone who posts here needs to remember that IT ISN'T OURS!! You can't humiliate people into going away or blackball those who's level of travel or questions fall below what you feel is clever or deep enough to merit an appropriate response. <BR>Elvira--my hat's off to you. You did a great job of moving between both worlds on this particular thread.

I agree with Page. Please everybody read here responses.

No matter WHERE you go in life, there is always a group of people who want "the group" all to themselves. They want it open until they themselves are admitted to the group. Then and ONLY then is it time to close the ranks. Thank goodness for the internet- all of you high school clique-types can't create little snobby clubs. This is an open forum for EVERYONE, like it or not. Do not read post you don't like, and ignore them if you read them accidentially. THE END

Hello All, IMO, B&N has a wonderful travel section, and nice comfy chairs to sit and read the travel guides. I take advantage of their facilities and often "buy" a book I really like. <BR>My experience is, that the more research I do on a upcoming trip, the better the whole experience is for me. <BR>Research+ planning =satisfying time for me! Judy

Those who wonder about "must see's" and whether it's "worth it" should do their own homework. Living in the Adirondacks is no excuse. There are online bookstores and a zillion websites. Apparently Joan's parents never told her to look it up in the dictionary herself. It's no wonder most very broad questions sink to the bottom. Detailed information requested by many inquiries can be found right here in this website. Does whoever wants to know the "best boutique hotel" in Paris think any of the "foderites pathetic snobs" has stayed in each and every one of them recently and has the same preferences as they do? So curious that those with fake names and fake e-mail addresses expect a wealth of responses full of useful information with no effort on their part.

I started a thread today on trip-planning--if you are interested in contributing your expertise, perhaps keeping it near the top of the postings will help newcomers

Also send an e-mail to the tourist office. <BR> <BR>Just the other day I got back a nice package from Wengen-Murren and Saas Fee. The package included hiking and biking maps, hotel information and other information. <BR> <BR>I have purchased a couple of good books on Switzerland hiking. One such book is The Lonely Planets "Walking in Switzerland" <BR> <BR>Of course the Fodors book. <BR> <BR>Then other posters can give their experiences on certain areas. <BR> <BR>Save em to disc for future looks. Print em out and pack em in your travel bags <BR> <BR>Sun( "Travelin' man, love when I can.....These are the memories that make me a wealthy soul", Bob Seeger) Vol <BR> <BR>

Capo and Paige are right-on with their answers to this one.

Some people just aren't research oriented, others are. I did all kinds of searches when I was planning a trip to Paris for my boyfriend's 40th birthday last year - which is how I found this site (and I've been skulking around every since). I found websites, library books, sent away for brochures. I enjoyed doing that. It was a lot of fun, though a little overwhelming in sheer volume of info available, which is probably part of the reason people ask naive or dopey questions. They're just fishing for info on yet another resource. Sometimes the wording of a question isn't specific enough to suit people here - so what. Pass it by. Or if you're in the mood to answer "is XXX worth it?", then give your opinion freely and without strings. I doubt the queriers take this as seriously as some of the responders. I can't bring myself to believe that these people would plan a trip based soley on the opinions and info they get here. As Elvira noted on another thread (regarding gratitude), it's a website - "cast your bread upon the waters" (or your pearls before swine if you will!). Maybe somebody will find your info useful. Maybe not. Maybe it will benefit future posters. Those of you who want everything orderly and perfectly worded and undying gratitude need to get out more. Don't be a bunch of geeks!

Perhaps sullivan really is as cranky as some of you are accusing him/her of being. but I think it's a fair point. The problem with asking a general question prior to doing at least a little research is that the people who could best help you are exhausted by answering the same generic questions again and again, and are likely to pass you by. It's in each of our own best interests to ask questions in a manner that is more likely to get a response. (by this I DON'T mean being antagonistic or provocative!) <BR> <BR>Clearly there are different points of view on this, however, and different levels of patience. Last night I responded to a young man (he told us so) who was in the early stages of planning a trip. I tried to be very nice as I told him to do some more research and then come back, and I gave some specific suggestions for doing so. However, the two people who responded after me were much more direct, and gave him very concrete recommendations, that I didn't think he was "ready" for. So who am I to say that he didn't do the right thing?

I am new to computers,fumbling along self taught for only a few months and the first thing I noticed about this forum was how incestuous it is. A handful think it is their forum. There are those of us who don't know easy ways. For instance one of your posters taught me to find almost any hotel or village by just typing in.

There is an assumption here that people who ask general questions have not done a lick of research and have not read a guidebook. <BR> <BR>Have you read a guidebook lately? Every place discussed is wonderful, all are worthy of your time, and nothing is overrated or overpriced. A person could read a guidebook on Europe and still be unclear on how to prioritize. That's why this Forum is so valuable -- you usually get honest opinions about things. If someone were to ask me whether Versailles was worth it, I'd give them my opinion on whether it was worth it to me, not a prediction on whether they would find it worthy of their time. <BR> <BR>So when I see a general question, I help if I can and feel like it, and I move along if I can't. But I do find some of the sneering in some of the posts above rather offensive and unnecessarily arrogant.

This is all so interesting, because it seems to imply that there is a 'correct' way to plan for travel vs an 'incorrect'way...hmmmm Certainly I don't think there are correct or incorrect ways to plan travel, or to post messages on this board (short of advertising profanity or spamming). <BR> <BR>I stopped responding to many "Planning my first trip to Europe, what should I see? posts" simply because I had responded to so many in the past that it grew tiresome to type the whole thing over again. <BR> <BR>Certainly I can understand that what is taken as the status quo by many regulars on Internet message boards and on Fodor's in particular.. is an unheard of formality by newcomers.... did I know that all CAPS was taken as shouting until someone told me??? <BR> <BR> <BR>I don't think I agree with Sullivan's idea that before you post you must follow steps A B and C... that is ridiculous, maybe someone comes to this message board as a first resort and never having planned a trip before they have no idea that they might need a guide book or what "brand" of book they should buy etc. etc. <BR> <BR>Luckily next trip, they may know that... and thus be in a position to help pass that practical tip along to the next generation of first time travellers... IMHO... helping one another find the courage to even GO to Europe in the first place.. and offering free advice seems to me to be the objective of this board.... hopefully eventually all these first timers.. these "blank" pages will return from their time abroad with a wider perspective and a handful of their own handy tips.. if that occurs then, again IMHO.. goal achieved <BR>

Just another point in this ongoing turf battle. I did a huge amount of research for my first trip to England in May. I bought several travel books, plus all kinds of online research, I have to say, however, that the best, most up-to-the-minute, and right-on information I got was from all of you on this site. Please don't get stingy with your assistance.

Thanks, Jean. <BR> <BR>And well said, Cindy! When someone asks if someplace is "worth it" what I hear them asking is "did you like it?" <BR> <BR>I'd like to reiterate what I said above, that people who ask questions could assist those here who want to help them by trying to put a little more thought into the questions they ask, by including as much information as possible about the kinds of things are important to them. I think it's a case of getting more out of it if you put a little more into it.

I don't want to be part of a group that would have me as a member.

<BR> <BR>To turn this whole thing around, I am often far more annoyed with the respondents than the questioners. <BR>How many times have you seen someone ask about a hotel---and ask to hear from people who have actually been there? <BR>I recently replied to such a question and found that I was the only one of eight respondents (last time I loked) who actually had first hand knowledge of the place (as requested by the question) <BR> <BR>AH <BR> <BR>