Hi All, I'm fine tuning our itinerary - forgive me for being abit scattered (I've changed our plans abit) - pls offer feedback:

Day 1 and 2 Munich (Sat and Sun) incl Dachau

Day 3 Salzberg (suggestion as to where to stay - was thinking Birchietgaten or ???? Want quaint village (would it be too far to drive to Mittenwald After day in Salzburg?)

Day 4, 5 , 6 Mittenwald (or recommendation for bavarian type intimate lodge/inn somewhere in the vicinity) as base for sightseeing Garmish, Zugspitz etc.. (3 nights possibly?)

Rothenberg (2 days/1 nt)

Frankfurt - 1 night - fly home

Questions:

If we were to see 1 castle, which do you recommend?
Should we add Heidelberg in somewhere?
On the way to Rotherberg, are there any " must see" areas?

For a first trip to Germany, is this a good itinerary or is there something else you'd recommend?

Our interests are quaint villages, beautiful scenery, Bavarian/alpine experience, hiking, castles, German beer/wine/food, etc... Sort of the quintensencial Bavarian experience.

Hi again,

I admit that I'm very sorry to hear that you'll be driving in Bavaria, an area with great train and bus transportation. You can take a road trip anywhere else in the world, but there are few places where the rail network works SO well.

There are many advantages to using the trains -- no worries about getting lost or turned around in small, medieval streets, no worries about the loooong traffic jams on the autobahns, no worried about the price of gas (around $8/gallon, I believe), no worries about finding and paying for parking. The train whisks you from city to town to village, without hassle and without fuss.

In addition, both of you get to enjoy the scenery -- or chat, read, listen to music, munch a picnic, or start up a conversation with a local on the train. You won't be isolated in a private bubble and get to get in some world-class people-watching -- see how teens treat the elderly, see how businessmen behave, see how families interact, etc.

Finally, using the trains is more green (yaaaay). Scientists believe there will be no more glaciers in Bavaria in 30 years due to global climate change, and indeed last summer the Zugspitze had no snow for the first time. This is a fun and easy way to reduce your carbon footprint.

s

Hi Swandaav - we aren't set on renting a car - if we can do our chosen itinerary via train that would be our preference.

ahhhh. That makes my little heart so happy! I gave away my car when I moved to Garmisch, and I love the car-free life!

Here are some other hotels you may want to consider:

Partenkirchen:
http://www.hotel-schatten.de/

In the forest (you have to take a cable car to get there). I stayed here for a few days in the 1980s -- obviously not a good spot for daily excursions.
http://www.forsthaus-graseck.de/page/en/startseite/

On a hill above town:
http://www.riessersee.com/

One thing to remember is that houses in Garmisch are built primarily of bright white stucco or occasionally of dark brown wood. It's not usual to have buildings made of stone. Oh, and if the hotel is tucked into a forest, it won't be convenient for excursions.

I think Mittenwald is a great choice, but sorry I don't know any hotels there. I stayed there for five weeks once, but it was in a vacation apartment.

Hope you find something just right!

s

Hi -

We are still planning but I;m looking for feedback/opinions/comoparisons on these 3 hotels for 3 nights lodging to explore the vicinity:

http://www.riessersee.com/
http://www.waxenstein.de/
http://www.hotel-zugspitze.de/en/

Thx

Hi again,

The most convenient is the Zugspitze. It is just about one block from the pedestrian zone in Garmisch and maybe 5-minute's walk to the train station. It gets rave reviews.

the Riessersee is, as I said above, on a hill overlooking the town. It is about a 15-minute walk (across the hill) to the Kreuzeck cable car lift and a Zugspitze train stop. It is about a 20-minute walk to town. Unfortunately, the town bus doesn't stop anywhere near it; by the time you reach a bus stop, your destination would be just a block or two away.

Grainau, I think, is equally inconvenient. It's good for walks and hikes in the area and to get up to the Zugspitze. However, the bus into Garmisch (the Eibsee bus) only runs once an hour, and it takes about 20 minutes.

Not sure what you mean by "explore the vicinity." If you mean the mountains and lakes, then any of these hotels would be great. However, if you mean visiting castles and other towns, then only the Zugspitze is good.

Have fun as you plan!

s

We loved Germany last year in December, if your interested you could take a look at our t/r. We did a few of things that you've mentioned. Hope it helps.
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...rs-5-weeks.cfm

Hi Swandee, By "explore the vicinity" I mean using a lodge as a base for seeing/doing everything in the vicinity whether that be mountains and lakes or castles and other towns. I'm just looking for a home base for a few nights so we don't need to pack and unpack every night.

Aussiedreamer, I just read through your TR (the Munich and Austria part). Thanks so much for sharing. Your trip sounds fantastic. I loved the resort and the skiing in Austria - I'd like to add that to my list of trips I'd like to take someday.

Swanner

http://www.bmw-welt.com/en/visitor_i...ours/welt.html

It is in Munich, we booked for Nov last week and got an English speaking tour on the day we wanted. They book fast so you have to book in advance.

Thanks flpab

Swanner: "Is this a good itinerary or is there something else you'd recommend?... We are active so doing things like boat rides, hikes thru the forests or mountains, climbing to castles, walking tours, biking, jogging thru a park, etc...all interest us.""

Swanner, your doubts are valid. You've been articulate and specific about what you're looking for on this trip (which is a bit unusual on these boards) so kudos for that. But if a good first trip means finding what you're looking for, you should rethink both your itinerary and what you are looking for. Swandav has cautioned you about the serious wetness you are likely to experience in the German Alps (maybe the WORST place in Germany in Nov/Dec for the hiking/biking/climbing-to-castles experience.) Rain and fog don't make for good scenery either. Other places in Germany and in Bavaria might be damp and cold to some extent, but probably not as intensely or as frequently as the Alps.

"Our interests are quaint villages, beautiful scenery, Bavarian/alpine experience, hiking, castles, German beer/wine/food, etc... Sort of the quintensencial Bavarian experience....

Staying in a city, as Swandav suggests, makes sense; do outings into the countryside to villages, small towns and castles as weather permits. But consider an area with less precip. The Alps aren't the only place you can hike, and even though "Alpine" often goes with "villages" in our heads, scenic villages are actually scattered all around the country. I'd suggest Franconia. Where's that? It's in Bavaria, actually (northern Bavaria) and by targeting Rothenburg, you are already planning to go there anyway!

Rothenburg is only one such place. The nearby River Main (just north of Rothenburg) is famous for its wines and is stuffed and surrounded by quaint towns and villages like Ochsenfurt and Marktbreit. Check out this daytrip video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLUgpoQIFHI

Iphofen is another nearby wine town that takes you back in time:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...seeTorSued.jpg

Speaking of time travel - this outdoor museum in Bad Windsheim is fantastic:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractio...conia_Bav.html

You mentioned beer. Bamberg - built on 7 hills so that hiking is part of the visit - is a fantastic old Franconian city that's not to be missed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of4CI_169KQ

Würzburg and Nuremberg are both interesting and handsome cities (extra-nice old town in N'berg, home of famous Christmas market) with excellent train connections where you might settle in for several days or a week as you visit the area.

"If we were to see 1 castle, which do you recommend?"

in Nuremberg: Kaiserburg castle
in Würzburg: Marienburg fortress

Palaces (not unlike King Ludwig's palaces in the south): Würzburg, Weikersheim, several others in the area as well

"Should we add Heidelberg in somewhere?"

Not necessarily, but there is good scenery and some castles and palaces along the Burgenstrasse or CASTLE ROAD as well between Rothenburg and Heidelberg:

http://www.burgenstrasse.de/showpage...iteID=2&lang=2
On the way to Rotherberg, are there any " must see" areas?

For getting around Franconia by train, there's the Tagesticket Plus daypass for two: 16.80€/day

http://www.vgn.de/en/dayticket?Edition=en

For getting around all of Bavaria, there's the Bayern Ticket daypass:

http://www.munich-touristinfo.de/Bavaria-Ticket.htm

Hope this doesn't throw you for a loop, but you asked

Russ, Wow - thank you so much for the very informative response. It's going to take me a few days to get through all of this but I really appreciate the input and the thought/time you put into your response.

Thanks again - once I have an opportunity to digest all this information, I'll respond back.

[i}We like small, intimate lodging - we have visions of cobblestone roads, fireplaces, cozy Hansel and Gretel kind of places - corny I know, but that's what comes to mind when I think of Bavaria.[/i]

Check out http://www.bensbauernhof.com/ for lodging that you describe above. Ben used to post on Fodor's. Not sure if he's still around. Great website for non-touristy lodging in Bavaria.

Oops.

We like small, intimate lodging - we have visions of cobblestone roads, fireplaces, cozy Hansel and Gretel kind of places - corny I know, but that's what comes to mind when I think of Bavaria.

Hmm...thinking those brackets may be outdated for italics.

Russ, your videos are fantastic! So much good information - I'm really going to have to rethink our itinerary. Thanks so much for your input...

Betsy, thank you. I will definitely bookmark this site!

If you go to Bamberg (which I highly recommend) check out the Creche Walk. There are displays of all sizes of creches, including life-size tableaus in various churches. If you are interested in that sort of thing, it was very interesting. I picked up the map in some of the tourist info.

Thanks CarolJean, I will add that to our list of possibilities. I always love unique cultural experiences.