Germany/Austria December/January Excursion
Nov 29th, 2006, 09:05 AM
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Germany/Austria December/January Excursion
Hi. Below I've typed out my tenative itinerary for my Germany/Austria journey. Under each date are comments and questions. Would love to hear what people on this forum think? It would be a big help. Thanks.
ITINERARY
December 24:
Leave NYC and fly to Frankfurt
December 25:
Arrive Frankfurt. Take a train to Rothenburg. Originally thought about driving, but then I started to get nervous about driving in the Alps during the winter. I have a bit of vertigo and anxiety driving on mountain roads. Overnight Rothenburg.
December 26:
Sightsee in Rothenberg. Wondering if I should go to Nuremberg or other day trips? Do I have the time? Are they worth it or should I stay in Rothenberg and explore?
December 27:
Take a train from Rothenberg to Fussen? I think there is a train. Go to the Ludwing’s Castle. Neuschwasenstein (sp). Overnight in Fussen.
December 28:
Take a bus from Fussen to Reutte, and then take another bus from Reuette to Innsbruck, and then a train to Hall on Tirol. My research has told me that Innsbruck should be bypassed for Hall. Spend night in Hall. Is Hall worth the visit?
December 29:
Sightsee Hall/Innsbruck area. Should I try to ski in the area? Always wanted to ski in Austria? How close are the slopes? Are they good slopes?
December 30:
Travel from Hall/Innsbruck to Salzburg. Sightsee Salzburg.
December 31:
Sightsee Salzburg or possibly see Hallstatt or Bertschesgaden and Eagles Nest. I’ll have to chose one. Which one though?
January 1:
Early morning train from Salzburg to Munich. Check in Hotel. Sightsee Munich.
January 2:
Sightsee Munich. Possible morning trip to Dachau. I’ve been before, but my girlfriend would like to go.
January 3:
Sightsee Munich or leave Munich, and go to Dresden for a night on the way to Berlin. Or just head straight for Berlin. I know there is an early morning train that will get there by 1:00 pm. Question is do I need another day in Munich, or another day in Berlin, or should I split up the trip?
January 4:
Munich to Berlin
January 5:
Berlin
January 6:
Spent most of the day sightseeing Berlin. Then, that night we must fly froom Berlin to Manchester so that we can get a flight home early Sunday back to New York from Manchester. We are flying on miles. British Air has a flight for $132.00. Sleep in Manchester.
January 7:
Manchester to NY
ITINERARY
December 24:
Leave NYC and fly to Frankfurt
December 25:
Arrive Frankfurt. Take a train to Rothenburg. Originally thought about driving, but then I started to get nervous about driving in the Alps during the winter. I have a bit of vertigo and anxiety driving on mountain roads. Overnight Rothenburg.
December 26:
Sightsee in Rothenberg. Wondering if I should go to Nuremberg or other day trips? Do I have the time? Are they worth it or should I stay in Rothenberg and explore?
December 27:
Take a train from Rothenberg to Fussen? I think there is a train. Go to the Ludwing’s Castle. Neuschwasenstein (sp). Overnight in Fussen.
December 28:
Take a bus from Fussen to Reutte, and then take another bus from Reuette to Innsbruck, and then a train to Hall on Tirol. My research has told me that Innsbruck should be bypassed for Hall. Spend night in Hall. Is Hall worth the visit?
December 29:
Sightsee Hall/Innsbruck area. Should I try to ski in the area? Always wanted to ski in Austria? How close are the slopes? Are they good slopes?
December 30:
Travel from Hall/Innsbruck to Salzburg. Sightsee Salzburg.
December 31:
Sightsee Salzburg or possibly see Hallstatt or Bertschesgaden and Eagles Nest. I’ll have to chose one. Which one though?
January 1:
Early morning train from Salzburg to Munich. Check in Hotel. Sightsee Munich.
January 2:
Sightsee Munich. Possible morning trip to Dachau. I’ve been before, but my girlfriend would like to go.
January 3:
Sightsee Munich or leave Munich, and go to Dresden for a night on the way to Berlin. Or just head straight for Berlin. I know there is an early morning train that will get there by 1:00 pm. Question is do I need another day in Munich, or another day in Berlin, or should I split up the trip?
January 4:
Munich to Berlin
January 5:
Berlin
January 6:
Spent most of the day sightseeing Berlin. Then, that night we must fly froom Berlin to Manchester so that we can get a flight home early Sunday back to New York from Manchester. We are flying on miles. British Air has a flight for $132.00. Sleep in Manchester.
January 7:
Manchester to NY
Nov 29th, 2006, 09:35 AM
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With all that rail travel be sure to investigate the Germany-austria railpass, starting at $244 p.p. in 2nd class or $286 p.p. in first class on a saverpass over a 2-month period - flexipass, also comes in 6- 8- 10-day versions and can be used on any train anytime. Seems would be great deal for you. Not sold in Germany - marketed in US by Raileurope - www.raileurope.com for current prices. As usual for any European rail pass i recommend BETS (800-441-2387; www.budgeteuropetravel.com) for their expertise and service. Compare German fares at www.bahn.de in euros to see if a good deal or not. I also recommend www.ricksteves.com for info on train travel and passes in these two countries, and www.euraide.com, a German rail specialist.
Nov 29th, 2006, 11:57 AM
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Yes Larry has extensively studied the rather Byzantine fare options in Germany - fares you wouldn't realize existed probably by a casual glance at bahn.de site - especially regional passes, which could be combined with a German/Austria pass, opting for less days on the pass and using bargain local passes in some areas. Or using discount fares on long-distance trains and regional options and foregoing the pass. Larry's a guru for German rail travel options in my experience reading his many posts on the subject! He seems to come and go so ask him when he's here.
Nov 29th, 2006, 12:29 PM
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There is train service via GaP from Reutte to Innsbruck. Looks like about 2:19 and €17,60. The Austrian Rail website indicates that there is bus service between Reutte and Innsbruck, but they don't give the prices; the bus is probably less than the train. The travel time is only a few minutes longer, so it might just depend on your personal preference. The bus makes a LOT of stops.
Nov 29th, 2006, 01:36 PM
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OK, with your girlfriend. That's good to know. Half of a dayticket (e.g. Bayern Ticket) for 2-5 people is usually less than a day ticket for one person. More about Bayern Tickets later.
As for Füssen to Innsbruck, as far as I know, the bus leg from Füssen to Reutte is not covered under anyones day ticket. You will have to buy those tickets separately, from the driver. A ticket from Füssen to Pfronten, which appears to be a longer distance is €2,90 per person, so the Füssen to Reutte ticket should cost less. Buy it from the driver.
The price, €17,60 per person that I quoted you for Reutte to Innsbruck was DB's price, what you would pay if you bought the ticket in Füssen. However, I found the website for Verkehrsverbund Tirol (www.vvt.at). Sorry, it is in German. It shows the schedules for Reutte to Innsbruck either by train via GaP or by bus via Fernpass (Nassereith) to be €12,80 per person, so obviously, buy the ticket in Reutte and save some money. For the same price, I think I would take the train, although with the bus you get to go over the 1200 m. (4000 ft) Fernpass - with someone else driving.
As for Füssen to Innsbruck, as far as I know, the bus leg from Füssen to Reutte is not covered under anyones day ticket. You will have to buy those tickets separately, from the driver. A ticket from Füssen to Pfronten, which appears to be a longer distance is €2,90 per person, so the Füssen to Reutte ticket should cost less. Buy it from the driver.
The price, €17,60 per person that I quoted you for Reutte to Innsbruck was DB's price, what you would pay if you bought the ticket in Füssen. However, I found the website for Verkehrsverbund Tirol (www.vvt.at). Sorry, it is in German. It shows the schedules for Reutte to Innsbruck either by train via GaP or by bus via Fernpass (Nassereith) to be €12,80 per person, so obviously, buy the ticket in Reutte and save some money. For the same price, I think I would take the train, although with the bus you get to go over the 1200 m. (4000 ft) Fernpass - with someone else driving.
Nov 30th, 2006, 10:21 AM
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A word about traveling by train in Germany around Christmas and New Years.
I've been on 135 trains this century in Germany. I have only had to stand twice. Once was in August on a milk run regional train going into Stuttgart on a Friday afternoon. The other was on an ICE going from Frankfurt airport to Karlsruhe via Mannheim on the day after Christmas (a Wednesday). Although every seat on the ICE was occupied, few were reserved. I could have purchased seat reservations with my tickets and had a seat. Nevertheless, after 1/2 hour, when the train neared Mannheim, a lot of people got up to be at the doors when the train stopped, and we sat down for the rest of the trip.
The rest of the vacation we only traveled on regional trains and always got seats.
So, the only place that I can see where seat reservations would be an issue might be the train from Frankfurt airport to Würzburg on Christmas day. But, how many people will be traveling on Christmas morning?
Does anyone else have an opinion?
I've been on 135 trains this century in Germany. I have only had to stand twice. Once was in August on a milk run regional train going into Stuttgart on a Friday afternoon. The other was on an ICE going from Frankfurt airport to Karlsruhe via Mannheim on the day after Christmas (a Wednesday). Although every seat on the ICE was occupied, few were reserved. I could have purchased seat reservations with my tickets and had a seat. Nevertheless, after 1/2 hour, when the train neared Mannheim, a lot of people got up to be at the doors when the train stopped, and we sat down for the rest of the trip.
The rest of the vacation we only traveled on regional trains and always got seats.
So, the only place that I can see where seat reservations would be an issue might be the train from Frankfurt airport to Würzburg on Christmas day. But, how many people will be traveling on Christmas morning?
Does anyone else have an opinion?
Nov 30th, 2006, 02:04 PM
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I've been looking at your situation v-v railpasses. I think you can do better without buying a railpass, but I just wanted to compare the two railpass options.
A five day, 2nd class, Germany-Austria saver pass will cost $488 for 2 people; a five day, 2nd class German Rail Twin pass will cost $352 for 2 people, $136 less, about €102 less at todays exchange rate. The difference increases with more days. You would only spend 2 days traveling in Austria on the pass. The first day is Reutte to Hall, which would only cost €29 for both of you with point to point tickets. On the second day, Hall to Salzburg, you have two choices. You could go from Hall via Zell am See. That route is more scenic, but takes an hour longer. Cost of that route for point to point tickets is €66,60 for two people. So, the total fare for the Reutte, Hall, Zell, Salzburg route is €96, not much less than the difference between the two railpasses, but less nonetheless. I wouldn't buy a pass with Austria included.
The quicker, standard route goes through Kufstein and Rosenheim. That is mostly in Gemany, so if you had a German Rail pass, that part would be covered. All you would need would be point to point tickets (about €12 per person) from Hall to Kiefersfelden (first stop in Germany); you could use the railpass from there. From Germany to Salzburg is included in a German Rail pass. So, if you want to get to Salzburg quickly, and you don't care about Zell, the addition to a German Rail pass is €53.
A five day, 2nd class, Germany-Austria saver pass will cost $488 for 2 people; a five day, 2nd class German Rail Twin pass will cost $352 for 2 people, $136 less, about €102 less at todays exchange rate. The difference increases with more days. You would only spend 2 days traveling in Austria on the pass. The first day is Reutte to Hall, which would only cost €29 for both of you with point to point tickets. On the second day, Hall to Salzburg, you have two choices. You could go from Hall via Zell am See. That route is more scenic, but takes an hour longer. Cost of that route for point to point tickets is €66,60 for two people. So, the total fare for the Reutte, Hall, Zell, Salzburg route is €96, not much less than the difference between the two railpasses, but less nonetheless. I wouldn't buy a pass with Austria included.
The quicker, standard route goes through Kufstein and Rosenheim. That is mostly in Gemany, so if you had a German Rail pass, that part would be covered. All you would need would be point to point tickets (about €12 per person) from Hall to Kiefersfelden (first stop in Germany); you could use the railpass from there. From Germany to Salzburg is included in a German Rail pass. So, if you want to get to Salzburg quickly, and you don't care about Zell, the addition to a German Rail pass is €53.
Dec 1st, 2006, 07:55 AM
#11
Hi,
We have been to Hall in Tirol a few times including this past Oct. We definitely prefer Hall in Tirol to Innsbruck and with a stay at Gasthof Badl. Very friendly owner and staff, good restaurant, terrific balcony views of the mountains and a great location. It's only 10 minutes from Innsbruck and from the train station, it's a very short walk to the Badl and/or the old town Of Hall.
www.badl.at
check their "links" for area info
or
www.regionhall.at
Paul
We have been to Hall in Tirol a few times including this past Oct. We definitely prefer Hall in Tirol to Innsbruck and with a stay at Gasthof Badl. Very friendly owner and staff, good restaurant, terrific balcony views of the mountains and a great location. It's only 10 minutes from Innsbruck and from the train station, it's a very short walk to the Badl and/or the old town Of Hall.
www.badl.at
check their "links" for area info
or
www.regionhall.at
Paul
Dec 1st, 2006, 08:19 AM
#12
Hi again,
Just an opinion on Salzburg...
with 1 and 1/2 days, I would concentrate on seeing Salzburg. we drove to Hallstatt and it's about an hour to 1 and 1/2 hours each way. Small but very pretty town. Berchtesgaden is much closer (1/2 hour)and has a nice old town. Didn't see the Eagles Nest though. Again, my opinion would be to see Salzburg.
Paul
Just an opinion on Salzburg...
with 1 and 1/2 days, I would concentrate on seeing Salzburg. we drove to Hallstatt and it's about an hour to 1 and 1/2 hours each way. Small but very pretty town. Berchtesgaden is much closer (1/2 hour)and has a nice old town. Didn't see the Eagles Nest though. Again, my opinion would be to see Salzburg.
Paul
Dec 1st, 2006, 08:46 AM
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Some thoughts on the first part of your itinerary.
Dec. 26: If you feel like you've seen what you'd like to see in Rothenburg by about lunchtime (since you'll have had some time to explore on the 25th), you might want to take a quick trip to Wurzburg to visit the Residenz there and have dinner. The Resodenz is amazing. It only takes an hour each way by train, and the Residenz is about a ten-minute walk from the train station. Nurnberg is kind of far away for a day trip.
Dec. 27: I think the trip from Rothenburg (which is on a tiny dinky line) to Fussen will involve a bunch of transfers and take some time. And keep in mind that it'll start to get dark at around 4, and that visiting Neuschwanstein is a bit of a production (totally worth it, but you should know that there are a lot of steps). You have to get off the train at Fussen, wait for a bus to take you a few kilometers away to the ticket center, make a tour reservation (for a time that is usually about an hour after you buy it), make your way uphill to the castle (a half-hour walk or a bus-ride), wait for your tour to start, take the tour, walk to the Marienbrucke (the view from here is the best part of the whole thing), and head back down. So I'm sort of nervous that you won't have enough time to get here from Rothenburg and see the castle as well as you'll want to.
Personally, I would rearrange the itinerary (if you haven't already made the hotel reservations), so that you go from Rothenburg to Munich. Do your multi-night stay in Munich, and go to the castle as a day-trip from Munich (with the Bayern Lander ticket, the first train you can take is the 9:51am, you get to the ticket place at about 12:30, and we had a 1:30 tour of the castle, then climbed to the bridge, and were back in Munich by 6 or 6:30 for dinner---perfect day). I did that two weeks ago, and it worked well. Then when you're done with Munich, go to Salzburg, which is only 2 hours away.
I've been to Innsbruck and found it rather dull. So my vote, if you want to ski, is to go to Hall, too.
By the way, it is really worth packing a lunch if you're going to Neuschwanstein. The only places to eat are touristy restaurants, and if you're doing a day trip (or even the Rothenburg-Fussen plan you currently have), you probably won't want to spend a lot of time eating, what with the tour times being very strict. And if you come from Munich, you can get your picnic lunch from the Market!
PS- Thanks Bob and Larry. Your train advice a few weeks ago was great!
Dec. 26: If you feel like you've seen what you'd like to see in Rothenburg by about lunchtime (since you'll have had some time to explore on the 25th), you might want to take a quick trip to Wurzburg to visit the Residenz there and have dinner. The Resodenz is amazing. It only takes an hour each way by train, and the Residenz is about a ten-minute walk from the train station. Nurnberg is kind of far away for a day trip.
Dec. 27: I think the trip from Rothenburg (which is on a tiny dinky line) to Fussen will involve a bunch of transfers and take some time. And keep in mind that it'll start to get dark at around 4, and that visiting Neuschwanstein is a bit of a production (totally worth it, but you should know that there are a lot of steps). You have to get off the train at Fussen, wait for a bus to take you a few kilometers away to the ticket center, make a tour reservation (for a time that is usually about an hour after you buy it), make your way uphill to the castle (a half-hour walk or a bus-ride), wait for your tour to start, take the tour, walk to the Marienbrucke (the view from here is the best part of the whole thing), and head back down. So I'm sort of nervous that you won't have enough time to get here from Rothenburg and see the castle as well as you'll want to.
Personally, I would rearrange the itinerary (if you haven't already made the hotel reservations), so that you go from Rothenburg to Munich. Do your multi-night stay in Munich, and go to the castle as a day-trip from Munich (with the Bayern Lander ticket, the first train you can take is the 9:51am, you get to the ticket place at about 12:30, and we had a 1:30 tour of the castle, then climbed to the bridge, and were back in Munich by 6 or 6:30 for dinner---perfect day). I did that two weeks ago, and it worked well. Then when you're done with Munich, go to Salzburg, which is only 2 hours away.
I've been to Innsbruck and found it rather dull. So my vote, if you want to ski, is to go to Hall, too.
By the way, it is really worth packing a lunch if you're going to Neuschwanstein. The only places to eat are touristy restaurants, and if you're doing a day trip (or even the Rothenburg-Fussen plan you currently have), you probably won't want to spend a lot of time eating, what with the tour times being very strict. And if you come from Munich, you can get your picnic lunch from the Market!
PS- Thanks Bob and Larry. Your train advice a few weeks ago was great!
Dec 2nd, 2006, 11:27 AM
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I’m inclined to agree with Felly that you should consider rearranging your schedule to go first to Munich, instead of straight to Füssen. After looking at the schedules on Bahn.de, it is obvious that you will need to take a fairly early train from Rothenburg in order to get to Füssen before the ticket kiosk closes at 3 PM (15:00). You can preorder your tickets online, but they still have to be claimed at the kiosk by 3.
It looks like the latest train(s) you could take leaves Rothenburg at 9:06 and arrives in Füssen at 13:59, in time to catch the 14:05 bus, which gets you to Hohenschwangau at 14:13. The ticket kiosk is just a few yards up the road so you shouldn’t have trouble getting there by 15:00.
Tours go until 4 PM, so you would have time to get to the castle, but maybe not to catch an English tour. They furnish tape recorders in English if you have to take a German language tour. It might be wise to prebook if you plan to catch this train.
If you do take the 9:06 you can do it with a €25 Bayern ticket, which would include the bus fare to Hohenschwangau.
The next earlier train, at 8:06, gets you to the castle at 13:13. That should give you plenty of time. Because you leave Rothenburg before 9 AM, you can’t use a Bayern Ticket the entire way. However, Verkehrsverbund Großraum (Greater) Nürnberg (VGN) offers a day ticket, Tageskarte Plus 10+T, for €13,80 that allows up to five people to travel from Rothenburg to Treuchtlingen; you can buy it from the ticket counter in the Rothenburg Bahnhof, or probably, from a ticket automat. The 8:06 train gets to Treuchtlingen after 9 AM, so the Bayern Ticket is valid from there. With the VGN Tageskarte, the total cost from Rothenburg to Hohenschwangau is €38,80.
There is an earlier train at 6:57 (I hate to even think about these early times) that gets you into Hohenschwangau at 12:13. Same thing, buy a VGN Tageskarte to get you to Treuchtlingen, use the Bayern Ticket from there.
Lastly, if you are really a fanatic, there is a 6:06 connection out of Rothenburg that will get you into Hohenschwangau at 11:13, but it uses an IC, so you could not use a Bayern Ticket. Here is the only example of where a rail pass might be preferable.
BTW, as for eating in Hohenschwangau, twice my wife and I have eaten at the hotel (Müller, I believe) that is just up the road from the ticket kiosk before heading up to a castle tour. It’s a large white building on the right; the horse-drawn carriages stop in front. As I remember the food was quite reasonable - €3 for a bowl of the Tagessuppe, €4,50 for a plate of Weiswürstl, probably with potato salad, both with bread.
It looks like the latest train(s) you could take leaves Rothenburg at 9:06 and arrives in Füssen at 13:59, in time to catch the 14:05 bus, which gets you to Hohenschwangau at 14:13. The ticket kiosk is just a few yards up the road so you shouldn’t have trouble getting there by 15:00.
Tours go until 4 PM, so you would have time to get to the castle, but maybe not to catch an English tour. They furnish tape recorders in English if you have to take a German language tour. It might be wise to prebook if you plan to catch this train.
If you do take the 9:06 you can do it with a €25 Bayern ticket, which would include the bus fare to Hohenschwangau.
The next earlier train, at 8:06, gets you to the castle at 13:13. That should give you plenty of time. Because you leave Rothenburg before 9 AM, you can’t use a Bayern Ticket the entire way. However, Verkehrsverbund Großraum (Greater) Nürnberg (VGN) offers a day ticket, Tageskarte Plus 10+T, for €13,80 that allows up to five people to travel from Rothenburg to Treuchtlingen; you can buy it from the ticket counter in the Rothenburg Bahnhof, or probably, from a ticket automat. The 8:06 train gets to Treuchtlingen after 9 AM, so the Bayern Ticket is valid from there. With the VGN Tageskarte, the total cost from Rothenburg to Hohenschwangau is €38,80.
There is an earlier train at 6:57 (I hate to even think about these early times) that gets you into Hohenschwangau at 12:13. Same thing, buy a VGN Tageskarte to get you to Treuchtlingen, use the Bayern Ticket from there.
Lastly, if you are really a fanatic, there is a 6:06 connection out of Rothenburg that will get you into Hohenschwangau at 11:13, but it uses an IC, so you could not use a Bayern Ticket. Here is the only example of where a rail pass might be preferable.
BTW, as for eating in Hohenschwangau, twice my wife and I have eaten at the hotel (Müller, I believe) that is just up the road from the ticket kiosk before heading up to a castle tour. It’s a large white building on the right; the horse-drawn carriages stop in front. As I remember the food was quite reasonable - €3 for a bowl of the Tagessuppe, €4,50 for a plate of Weiswürstl, probably with potato salad, both with bread.
Dec 4th, 2006, 09:45 AM
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Larry: maybe you will know the definitive answer to this question as i do not:
When taking a train from Reutte to Garmisch it's my understanding that a German Railpass is valid on this trip because it's a through routing from Kempten (i think) to Garmisch and for tariff purposes a part of Germany - similar to Korridor Zugs Salzburg-Innsbruck that go thru Germany.
Well i'm not positive this is the case - do you know. And if so would this make the Bavarian Ticket also accepted on this line. I'm thinking of folks doing Munich-Fussen-Reutte-Garmisch-Munich, which i did once - a long trip but if you love trains!
No need to reply if don't know. Thanks.
When taking a train from Reutte to Garmisch it's my understanding that a German Railpass is valid on this trip because it's a through routing from Kempten (i think) to Garmisch and for tariff purposes a part of Germany - similar to Korridor Zugs Salzburg-Innsbruck that go thru Germany.
Well i'm not positive this is the case - do you know. And if so would this make the Bavarian Ticket also accepted on this line. I'm thinking of folks doing Munich-Fussen-Reutte-Garmisch-Munich, which i did once - a long trip but if you love trains!
No need to reply if don't know. Thanks.
Dec 4th, 2006, 01:40 PM
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Bob, I tried contacting you at the aol address, but it "bounced" back. Please contact me at [email protected].
The stretch of track from Kempten to Garmisch-Partenkirchen via Reutte in Tirol is known as the Ausserfernbahn. Within Austria, it is completely isolated from the tracks of Austrian Rail, and I think entirely run by German Rail. Austrian Rail does not even sell tickets online for this route, not even between Reutte and Ehrwald, where the tracks are entirely within Austria. I rode this route once in early January, on a bright sunny day with fresh snow on the ground. It was spectacular.
I think it is not what I know, but what I know how to find. Sometime people present me, as you have, with an exciting challenge to my research.
After reviewing the websites for DB, RailEurope, and Rick Steves, nowhere do I find any indication that the German Rail pass is valid on the Ausserfernbahn. Seems like it should be, but although they point out that the German Rail pass is valid into Basel and Salzburg, they don't mention the Ausserfernbahn. Perhaps they just assume everyone knows it is part of the German Rail network? Maybe I will have to call German Rail and ask them.
On the other hand, the German Rail website also does not indicate that the Schönes-Wochenende Ticket is valid for the Ausserfernbahn. However, the website for the Ausserfernbahn (www.erlebnisbahn.at/ausserfernbahn) indicates that it is. Further, if I query the German Rail website for travel on a weekend day from Kempten via Reutte to Garmisch-Partenkirchen for enough people that the standard fare is over €30, it suggest the S-W Ticket as a savings alternative.
Online information about the Bayern Ticket, however, explicitely state that it includes the Ausserfernbahn, as well as in Austria up to Kufstein.
As for the stretch from the Kufstein, Austria, to the German border, it seems to be included in both the Bayern and Schönes-Wochenende Tickets. I queried the DB timetables about Kufstein to Salzburg. For regional trains via Rosenheim, the combined fare for two passengers was more than €30, so they suggested the Schönes-Wochenende ticket as a savings fare. Of course, the OEC trains don't qualify - they are not regional trains and they are totally run by Austrian Rail. The S-W Ticket was shown for fares from Kufstein to Salzburg on regional trains that started in Innsbruck, but not for fares starting in Innsbruck.
As for Munich-Füssen-Reutte-Garmisch-Munich, Füssen to Reutte is by RVO (Regionalverkehr Oberbayern) bus, and the Bayern Ticket information indicates that it is valid for RVO buses but not for lines that cross over the border. Even with a Bayern Ticket, I think you would have to pay extra for the Füssen-Ruette leg. However, if you took the bus from Füssen to Pfronten-Ried, that bus ride would be covered, as would the train from Pfronten to Reutte.
The stretch of track from Kempten to Garmisch-Partenkirchen via Reutte in Tirol is known as the Ausserfernbahn. Within Austria, it is completely isolated from the tracks of Austrian Rail, and I think entirely run by German Rail. Austrian Rail does not even sell tickets online for this route, not even between Reutte and Ehrwald, where the tracks are entirely within Austria. I rode this route once in early January, on a bright sunny day with fresh snow on the ground. It was spectacular.
I think it is not what I know, but what I know how to find. Sometime people present me, as you have, with an exciting challenge to my research.
After reviewing the websites for DB, RailEurope, and Rick Steves, nowhere do I find any indication that the German Rail pass is valid on the Ausserfernbahn. Seems like it should be, but although they point out that the German Rail pass is valid into Basel and Salzburg, they don't mention the Ausserfernbahn. Perhaps they just assume everyone knows it is part of the German Rail network? Maybe I will have to call German Rail and ask them.
On the other hand, the German Rail website also does not indicate that the Schönes-Wochenende Ticket is valid for the Ausserfernbahn. However, the website for the Ausserfernbahn (www.erlebnisbahn.at/ausserfernbahn) indicates that it is. Further, if I query the German Rail website for travel on a weekend day from Kempten via Reutte to Garmisch-Partenkirchen for enough people that the standard fare is over €30, it suggest the S-W Ticket as a savings alternative.
Online information about the Bayern Ticket, however, explicitely state that it includes the Ausserfernbahn, as well as in Austria up to Kufstein.
As for the stretch from the Kufstein, Austria, to the German border, it seems to be included in both the Bayern and Schönes-Wochenende Tickets. I queried the DB timetables about Kufstein to Salzburg. For regional trains via Rosenheim, the combined fare for two passengers was more than €30, so they suggested the Schönes-Wochenende ticket as a savings fare. Of course, the OEC trains don't qualify - they are not regional trains and they are totally run by Austrian Rail. The S-W Ticket was shown for fares from Kufstein to Salzburg on regional trains that started in Innsbruck, but not for fares starting in Innsbruck.
As for Munich-Füssen-Reutte-Garmisch-Munich, Füssen to Reutte is by RVO (Regionalverkehr Oberbayern) bus, and the Bayern Ticket information indicates that it is valid for RVO buses but not for lines that cross over the border. Even with a Bayern Ticket, I think you would have to pay extra for the Füssen-Ruette leg. However, if you took the bus from Füssen to Pfronten-Ried, that bus ride would be covered, as would the train from Pfronten to Reutte.
Dec 4th, 2006, 02:19 PM
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This is all great stuff. I think we are going to go for the early train out of Rothenburg and do the tour. We'll spend the night in Fussen at the Hotel Sonne and then get up the next morning and head to Innsbruck via Reutte.
I've read alot about Hall vs. Innsbruck? Does anyone have an opinion about that here? I don't have a car and we are young and like to go out late drinking, having fun. We are also going to ski in that area. Any suggestions with regard to that?
Finally, any suggestions for New Years Eve in Salzburg. A nice dinner? Dancing?
I've read alot about Hall vs. Innsbruck? Does anyone have an opinion about that here? I don't have a car and we are young and like to go out late drinking, having fun. We are also going to ski in that area. Any suggestions with regard to that?
Finally, any suggestions for New Years Eve in Salzburg. A nice dinner? Dancing?
Dec 4th, 2006, 06:10 PM
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"any suggestions for New Years Eve in Salzburg."
All I can say is book early. Christmas/New Years are very popular times in Germany. A few years ago, my wife decided in June she wanted to spend Christmas in Germany. I had already been planning a trip, so I had an itineray and a list of possible accommodations. I found that many had been booked 6 month, probably a year in advance. As someone I know in the Black Forest said, "many older Germans are alone at Christmas, so they come here to be alone together."
All I can say is book early. Christmas/New Years are very popular times in Germany. A few years ago, my wife decided in June she wanted to spend Christmas in Germany. I had already been planning a trip, so I had an itineray and a list of possible accommodations. I found that many had been booked 6 month, probably a year in advance. As someone I know in the Black Forest said, "many older Germans are alone at Christmas, so they come here to be alone together."
Dec 5th, 2006, 09:43 AM
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Have you found the schedule for the bus to Reutte and the train connections from there to Innsbruck? As of this morning, probably because of this weekend's schedule changes, DB was not showing any of the buses out of Füssen, neither the 74 bus directly to Reutte (which, I believe is actually run by the Austrian Post, not RVO), nor the RVO bus to Pfronten-Ried. However, the current 74 schedule is at http://www.rvo-bus.de/site/rvo__bus/...nhaenge/74.pdf. I believe it will update on Sunday. The Verkehrsverbund Tirol schedule shows the same times for Dec 27.
Note: there is a bus leaving Füssen at 8:00. It gets to Reutte at 8:35, and the train for Innsbruck leaves at 9:03. Plenty of time. If you wait until 9:00 to leave Füssen, the bus gets into Reutte at 9:37. The bus connection through Nasseraith leaves at 10:07, but if you want to take the train to Innsbruck you have to wait until 11:03 for the next one.
Note: there is a bus leaving Füssen at 8:00. It gets to Reutte at 8:35, and the train for Innsbruck leaves at 9:03. Plenty of time. If you wait until 9:00 to leave Füssen, the bus gets into Reutte at 9:37. The bus connection through Nasseraith leaves at 10:07, but if you want to take the train to Innsbruck you have to wait until 11:03 for the next one.
Dec 5th, 2006, 12:47 PM
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Larry: thanx for the wealth of info on such an arcane topic. My e-mail address is: [email protected].
I tried to change my e-mail address on Fodors a while back because i had cancelled my AOL account and got Comcast high-speed cable but when i tried Fodors said they would send my new pass word to my AOL.com site, which i no longer had access to. Thus, not to fool around with my access, i left it as is. I'm not too computer savvy so am leaving it alone. But i'm not hiding my [email protected] address, where i will gladly get e-mails from any Fodorite. Sincerely, PalQ
I tried to change my e-mail address on Fodors a while back because i had cancelled my AOL account and got Comcast high-speed cable but when i tried Fodors said they would send my new pass word to my AOL.com site, which i no longer had access to. Thus, not to fool around with my access, i left it as is. I'm not too computer savvy so am leaving it alone. But i'm not hiding my [email protected] address, where i will gladly get e-mails from any Fodorite. Sincerely, PalQ
