German Rail Strike Battle Lines Harden
Oct 9th, 2007, 03:49 PM
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German Rail Strike Battle Lines Harden
For those of you planning on visits to Germany within the next few weeks, the rail strike situation is not improving. For those of you who read German, this is what Tagesschau summarized today.
Völlig verhärtete Fronten bei der Bahn
Die Bahn spricht vom "Krieg durch Streik", die GDL behauptet, die Bahn wolle sie "eliminieren" - im Tarifstreit bei der Bahn sind die Fronten verhärtet wie nie.
My English version is this:
The Bahn (the German Rail company) has fully hardened the battle front. Die Bahn speaks of War through a Strike. The GDL (locomotive drivers union) speaks of "elimination."
In the pay fight between the GDL and Die Bahn the battle front has become harder than ever.
The article went on to say that the strikes could come on Thursday and will be longer than before and cover a wider area.
Long distance trains, the ICE types, will probably continue to operate.
Many of these trains such as the Cisalpino trains that travel from Germany through Switzerland to Italy are multinational.
I guess we shall see how tough the talk turns out to be. There were some dire threats made this summer, but the actual strikes were minor. A few weeks ago negotiations broke off. All attempts at reconciliation and compromise under the guidance of two good mediators came to an end. Since then, talk has gotten tougher. I guess the time has come to quit the talk and walk the walk.
How messy will it get? I have no idea.
Völlig verhärtete Fronten bei der Bahn
Die Bahn spricht vom "Krieg durch Streik", die GDL behauptet, die Bahn wolle sie "eliminieren" - im Tarifstreit bei der Bahn sind die Fronten verhärtet wie nie.
My English version is this:
The Bahn (the German Rail company) has fully hardened the battle front. Die Bahn speaks of War through a Strike. The GDL (locomotive drivers union) speaks of "elimination."
In the pay fight between the GDL and Die Bahn the battle front has become harder than ever.
The article went on to say that the strikes could come on Thursday and will be longer than before and cover a wider area.
Long distance trains, the ICE types, will probably continue to operate.
Many of these trains such as the Cisalpino trains that travel from Germany through Switzerland to Italy are multinational.
I guess we shall see how tough the talk turns out to be. There were some dire threats made this summer, but the actual strikes were minor. A few weeks ago negotiations broke off. All attempts at reconciliation and compromise under the guidance of two good mediators came to an end. Since then, talk has gotten tougher. I guess the time has come to quit the talk and walk the walk.
How messy will it get? I have no idea.
Oct 10th, 2007, 07:28 AM
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Is it true that ICE and IC trains have been little effected and it's mainly regional trains and then sporadic and just for a few hours at a time?
If so it seems so far the average tourist will have been little inconvienced.
Bob's post seems to say this could change but that ICEs will probably continue to run and most tourists take those between cities
Folks buying Bavarain passes, etc. should of course make enquiries before buying a pass that day to see if regional trains are effectd.
bob thanks for the update
If so it seems so far the average tourist will have been little inconvienced.
Bob's post seems to say this could change but that ICEs will probably continue to run and most tourists take those between cities
Folks buying Bavarain passes, etc. should of course make enquiries before buying a pass that day to see if regional trains are effectd.
bob thanks for the update
Oct 10th, 2007, 07:58 AM
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Well, I am here, right in the middle of it.
It is Wednesday, Oct. 10. Thus far there has only been one strike, for three hours last Friday morning. I apparently caused some chaos, but not as much as the Lok drivers had wanted, because, if I read the account correctly, the Bahn used non-union drivers and some replacement drivers to operate on a reduced schedule without using the union drivers at all that day. They just told them to stay home.
So today the union announced that they will no longer give advance notice so as not to give the Bahn a chance to run on the reduced schedule again. The union has announced the possibility of all-day, nation-wide strikes on Thursday, Friday, Monday, and/or Tuesday.
So far I have not been at all concerned, mostly because I have been using the buses to travel the Romantic Road. I did need the trains between Landsberg and Nördlingen last Sunday, but they were running. Today, I took the train from Bad Mergentheim to Würzburg, but I had an alternate bus route if there had been a strike.
Oh, BTW. According to a ruling by the labor court in Chemnitz, they can only strike the local rail service. Express trains, such as ICEs, or freight service cannot be struck.
Friday I want to go from Würzburg to Nürnberg with a stop in Bamberg. I can do Würzburg to Nürnberg or Bamberg to Nürnberg via ICE if necessary, so I might just try the regional train to Bamberg and see how it goes from there.
It is Wednesday, Oct. 10. Thus far there has only been one strike, for three hours last Friday morning. I apparently caused some chaos, but not as much as the Lok drivers had wanted, because, if I read the account correctly, the Bahn used non-union drivers and some replacement drivers to operate on a reduced schedule without using the union drivers at all that day. They just told them to stay home.
So today the union announced that they will no longer give advance notice so as not to give the Bahn a chance to run on the reduced schedule again. The union has announced the possibility of all-day, nation-wide strikes on Thursday, Friday, Monday, and/or Tuesday.
So far I have not been at all concerned, mostly because I have been using the buses to travel the Romantic Road. I did need the trains between Landsberg and Nördlingen last Sunday, but they were running. Today, I took the train from Bad Mergentheim to Würzburg, but I had an alternate bus route if there had been a strike.
Oh, BTW. According to a ruling by the labor court in Chemnitz, they can only strike the local rail service. Express trains, such as ICEs, or freight service cannot be struck.
Friday I want to go from Würzburg to Nürnberg with a stop in Bamberg. I can do Würzburg to Nürnberg or Bamberg to Nürnberg via ICE if necessary, so I might just try the regional train to Bamberg and see how it goes from there.
Oct 10th, 2007, 01:03 PM
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Well, the tough talk yesterday turned into sounds of further negotiations today.
Tagesschau reports today that Mehdorn of Die Bahn and Schell of the locomotive drivers union will try again to negotiate and find a solution.
For those of you who read German, here is a quick snip of the longer story.
In den festgefahrenen Tarifstreit scheint Bewegung zu kommen. Die für morgen angekündigten Streiks hat die Lokführergewerkschaft GDL abgesagt. Bahnchef Mehdorf und Gewerkschaftschef Schell wollen sich wieder an den Verhandlungstisch setzen, um einen Ausweg aus dem Streit zu finden.
My understanding of the above is this:
There appears to be progress in the deadlocked wage fight (between the locomotive drivers and the German rail management.) The locomotive drivers union has canceled strikes for tomorrow. (Thursday.) The two leaders, Mehdorn and Schell, will again negotiate in an effort to find a way out of the wage controversy.
People who know more about these labor disputes in Germany have told me that the tough talk is often public posturing. Often the tougher the talk the more quickly the confrontation dissolves.
I got interested in the talk of a strike last August when I was concerned that a rail strike might disrupt my plans.
When I started following the news articles, I found my reading knowledge of German was improving as I added vocabulary. So not it has become something of a minor hobby, with some beneficial results: more knowledge of a foreign (to me) language. I must admit that another by-product of increasing my limited ability has been an increase respect for my friend who lives in Munich. She has native fluency in German and Italian, and her English was good enough to enable her to earn a graduate degree in broadcast journalism from the Grady School (Home of the Peabody Awards) at the U of Georgia.
Tagesschau reports today that Mehdorn of Die Bahn and Schell of the locomotive drivers union will try again to negotiate and find a solution.
For those of you who read German, here is a quick snip of the longer story.
In den festgefahrenen Tarifstreit scheint Bewegung zu kommen. Die für morgen angekündigten Streiks hat die Lokführergewerkschaft GDL abgesagt. Bahnchef Mehdorf und Gewerkschaftschef Schell wollen sich wieder an den Verhandlungstisch setzen, um einen Ausweg aus dem Streit zu finden.
My understanding of the above is this:
There appears to be progress in the deadlocked wage fight (between the locomotive drivers and the German rail management.) The locomotive drivers union has canceled strikes for tomorrow. (Thursday.) The two leaders, Mehdorn and Schell, will again negotiate in an effort to find a way out of the wage controversy.
People who know more about these labor disputes in Germany have told me that the tough talk is often public posturing. Often the tougher the talk the more quickly the confrontation dissolves.
I got interested in the talk of a strike last August when I was concerned that a rail strike might disrupt my plans.
When I started following the news articles, I found my reading knowledge of German was improving as I added vocabulary. So not it has become something of a minor hobby, with some beneficial results: more knowledge of a foreign (to me) language. I must admit that another by-product of increasing my limited ability has been an increase respect for my friend who lives in Munich. She has native fluency in German and Italian, and her English was good enough to enable her to earn a graduate degree in broadcast journalism from the Grady School (Home of the Peabody Awards) at the U of Georgia.
Oct 11th, 2007, 10:52 AM
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I wish I understood more of what is going on with the German rail strike. The article in Tagesschau today said that Bahn chief Mehdorn and union chief Schell were scheduled to meet today, Thursday.
Now we get news that a major strike is scheduled for tomorrow, Friday, starting less than 6 hours from this current writing. Commuter trains will be involved in the strike including the S-Bahns in Hamburg and Berlin.
Schell said that if negotiations were underway there would be no strike.
The excuse, seemingly flimsy to me, is that the discussions between Mehdorn and Schell were NOT really negotiations but conversations.
Evidently in the German mind the term Verhandlung means something far different than Gespräch. The former term is rendered as negotiation in dictionaries while the latter term is shown as meaning conversation.
In earlier reports the term "Krieg durch Streik" was used. I interpreted that to mean that we will wage war by striking.
If a strike equates to warfare, I don't understand how you can talk about negotiating a peace agreement while at the same time firing a major barrage of artillery shells.
To make peace you intensify the war?
It sounds to me like the idea is to cause surrender.
I suppose that something came out of the meeting between Mehdorn and Schell that sounded like no progress could be made, so the locomotive drivers union decided to ramp up the war.
Years ago there was a German chancellor named Bethman-Hollweg. His idea of conducting negotiations was characterized by one historian who said he sat at the negotiating table with an olive branch in one hand and a pistol in the other.
Seems like B-H type of thinking is in progress. They wont talk right so we use the pistol.
Now we get news that a major strike is scheduled for tomorrow, Friday, starting less than 6 hours from this current writing. Commuter trains will be involved in the strike including the S-Bahns in Hamburg and Berlin.
Schell said that if negotiations were underway there would be no strike.
The excuse, seemingly flimsy to me, is that the discussions between Mehdorn and Schell were NOT really negotiations but conversations.
Evidently in the German mind the term Verhandlung means something far different than Gespräch. The former term is rendered as negotiation in dictionaries while the latter term is shown as meaning conversation.
In earlier reports the term "Krieg durch Streik" was used. I interpreted that to mean that we will wage war by striking.
If a strike equates to warfare, I don't understand how you can talk about negotiating a peace agreement while at the same time firing a major barrage of artillery shells.
To make peace you intensify the war?
It sounds to me like the idea is to cause surrender.
I suppose that something came out of the meeting between Mehdorn and Schell that sounded like no progress could be made, so the locomotive drivers union decided to ramp up the war.
Years ago there was a German chancellor named Bethman-Hollweg. His idea of conducting negotiations was characterized by one historian who said he sat at the negotiating table with an olive branch in one hand and a pistol in the other.
Seems like B-H type of thinking is in progress. They wont talk right so we use the pistol.
Oct 11th, 2007, 11:01 AM
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sounds like Chinese water torture to me - unions trying to cause public worry about commuting trains possibly being on strike yet never disabeling the whole thing
string it out until public complaints force DB to negotiate seriously?
string it out until public complaints force DB to negotiate seriously?
Oct 11th, 2007, 11:07 AM
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>if negotiations were underway there would be no strike.
He said that whatever the outcome, they'll be on strike tomorrow.
Verhandlung = negotiation
Gespräch = conversation
>talk about negotiating a peace agreement while at the same time firing a major barrage of artillery shells.
That's how it's usually done, isn't it?
>They wont talk right so we use the pistol.
ditto, increase the pressure until they collapse.
He said that whatever the outcome, they'll be on strike tomorrow.
Verhandlung = negotiation
Gespräch = conversation
>talk about negotiating a peace agreement while at the same time firing a major barrage of artillery shells.
That's how it's usually done, isn't it?
>They wont talk right so we use the pistol.
ditto, increase the pressure until they collapse.
Oct 11th, 2007, 11:28 AM
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That does not sound like much of a peace. It reminds me of the time I heard one kid yelling at another one:
I am ignoring you. I have yet to figure out how you yell at someone and ignore them at the same time.
So I guess I don't understand how you reach a mutually acceptable agreement by engaging in hostilities.
Cooperation for the future of a major economic factor in Germany is one thing; conquest and long term resentment is another.
The two parties still have to work together for the long haul.
This sounds more like unconditional surrender and we will pour salt on your grain fields just to show you.
Granted the term eliminieren was used in some of the tough talk, but that is hardly realistic! Neither side to this dispute is going away.
I am ignoring you. I have yet to figure out how you yell at someone and ignore them at the same time.
So I guess I don't understand how you reach a mutually acceptable agreement by engaging in hostilities.
Cooperation for the future of a major economic factor in Germany is one thing; conquest and long term resentment is another.
The two parties still have to work together for the long haul.
This sounds more like unconditional surrender and we will pour salt on your grain fields just to show you.
Granted the term eliminieren was used in some of the tough talk, but that is hardly realistic! Neither side to this dispute is going away.
Oct 11th, 2007, 11:32 AM
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PS Let us not forget that it was Bethmann Hollweg's hard line support of Austria against Serbia after Archduke Ferdinand was assassinated that ultimately precipitated WW I.
One might argue that B-H wielded the first pistol. Unfortunately, the weapons grew to larger calibers all too quickly.
One might argue that B-H wielded the first pistol. Unfortunately, the weapons grew to larger calibers all too quickly.
Oct 11th, 2007, 11:36 AM
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Well, if the union gives up whithout any result, they're likely to disappear rather sooner than later. They are just a small union and the two larger unions already agreed. They're fighting for survival and DB would be very happy, should in future, they just have to deal with the other two that are far easier to handle.
Oct 11th, 2007, 11:44 AM
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It would be simplifying things far to much to blame the chancellor for the war. (Not having that much power after all btw.) The war was a "common effort" of many countries. He wanted a short calculable war and found that this doesn't exist. Well even until now, many people are still tought, Germany was responsible for WWI, when it was just one party involved in starting all the "mess" that followed.
Oct 12th, 2007, 06:44 AM
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well, I went from Würzburg directly to Nürnberg today on an EC, because I wasn't sure about the regional trains. I got to see Nürnberg a day early, but I will have to backtrack and see Bamberg tomorrow. I saw some regional trails come into the station at Würzburg while I waited for my train, but I think a lot of them were cancelled.
Oct 12th, 2007, 08:15 AM
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We are leaving for Germany next Wednesday, and I understand no one can predict tomorrow, much less a week ahead. We have a car reserved, but we typically use the trains. For those of you who are following this, do you have any advice or insight for us? Is there any reason to think that roads will be more crowded, or is that simplistic considering the number of people going from place to place daily? I will re-confirm our reservation. Do you think I should have any concerns that a reservation would not be honored because of higher demand for cars? The only time we plan to use public transportation (to much extent) is to get from the Frankfurt airport to Mainz when we arrive and from Mainz back to the airport when we leave. Any idea if that will be a problem? Thanks for any advice. PJK
Oct 12th, 2007, 08:52 AM
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>Is there any reason to think that roads will be more crowded
Yes, today was awful.
>reservation would not be honored
Would be the last time I'd use that rental company.
>Any idea if that will be a problem?
No idea, depends if trains will be running that day or not.
Yes, today was awful.
>reservation would not be honored
Would be the last time I'd use that rental company.
>Any idea if that will be a problem?
No idea, depends if trains will be running that day or not.
