nanaof4

I need help determining which would be the best for me - point to point tickets or a rail pass. I want to visit 5 villages/cities in Germany and a small village south of Interlaken, Switzerland. I'm having trouble with the rail Europe website. Also, when I try to research it I get the message that Staufen, Germany is not accessible by rail, but I know from Rick Steves that it is. So . . . . I am confused and need help.

J62

I'm not a railpass expert, so my only recommendation is to look at the German RR website www.bahn.de. There are a variety of countrywide or regional passes available that may be good for your needs.

elberko

The raileurope site does NOT show all trains. The German rail site above is the best place to look. Check www.railsaver.com to see if a pass makes sense with your itinerary.

~Liz

Russ

We can't help you with p2p decisions unless you provide the names of your destinations. Also: are you traveling alone? Do you have specific travel dates?

You should ditch the Rail Europe site as a source of information. Here's a direct link to the German railways scheduling info (but it won't provide complete price info.)

http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

nanaof4

This is my planned itinerary:
Frankfurt airport to Bacharach
Bacharach to Cochem
Cochem to Staufen
Staufen to Interlaken, SW
Interlaken to Luzern
Luzern to Rothenburg ob du Tauber
Rothenburg to Frankfurt

Thank you for any help you can give.
I am a 65 year old recent widow. I have traveled to these places many times with my husband. He was the driver and I was the navigator. This will be my first solo trip and my first time to utilize train travel. That is why I am somewhat nervous and hesitant in figuring all this out.

Russ

It is possible to get P2P tickets for this trip for about $200. But it depends on your travel dates (which you haven't provided) as the advance-sale tickets at the German Railways site are likely to be available only if you purchase them in a timely way. They go on sale 92 days in advance, and that's when they should be bought in order to get a great deal. The following prices are based on getting the advance-purchase price for the longer train rides.

FRA - Bacharach: 10.50 Eur (reg. price, RMV ticket machine at airport)

Bachar - Cochem: 17.40 Eur (reg. price. DB ticket machine)

Coche - Staufen: 32.60 Eur (adv. online purchase from DB site, Sparpreis ticket for Cochem to Freiburg at 29 Euros + 3.60 reg. ticket from machine for Freiburg - Staufen)

DB site: http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

Staufen - Basel: FREE (you get free travel on a Konus card from your hosts in Staufen for this stretch and the Black Forest region.)

Basel - Interlaken: 28 CHF
Interlake - Luzern: 15.50 CHF

Luzern - Rothenburg: 39 Euros, Europa-Spezial Schweiz advance purchase from DB site

Rothenburg - FRA: 19 Euros, advance-sale Sparpreis ticket from DB site

http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

That's 118.50 Euros ($169) and 43.5 CHF ($52) for $221 total at current exchange rates.

Feel free to post your travel dates for more accurate price help or to ask questions.

nanaof4

Bless your heart, Russ. You went "above and beyond" in answering my question.

This is my planned itinerary:

Frankfurt airport to Bacharach 9/14/11
Bacharach to Cochem 9/16/11
Cochem to Staufen 9/19
Staufen to Interlaken, SW 9/21
Interlaken to Luzern 9/24
Luzern to Rothenburg ob du Tauber 9/26
Rothenburg to Frankfurt 9/28
Frankfurt to airport 9/29 (I just added this one)

Also, is there any place other than Frankfurt (city)I could stay on 9/28 that would give me easy, quick and direct access to the airport for a 10:30 a.m. flight?

Russ

OK, well your question comes at a good time for picking up the cheap tickets. This will require some work and organization but you'll save a lot of $ over the cost of a railpass.

Frankfurt airport to Bacharach 9/14/11:

There are 2 FRA airport train stations. Go to the "Regionalbahnhof." The RMV ticket machine will sell you the 10.50 ticket.

Bacharach to Cochem 9/16/11:

You can buy this ticket at the FRA station (specify travel on the 16th, of course) or the Bacharach station.

Cochem to Freiburg 9/19: Buy this one at the DB site TOMORROW, 92 days in advance, for the best price and choice of departure times. Pay close attention to the conditions for use/refund. If you get it for 29 Euros, you'll save more than 40 Euros over the price of a regular Cochem-to-Staufen ticket.

Station names:

Cochem(Mosel)
Freiburg(Breisgau) Hbf

Freiburg to Staufen 9/19: Buy the 3.60 ticket from a regional machine in the Freiburg station.


Staufen to Interlaken, SW 9/21: Ask your Staufen host for the Konus card if it isn't offered immediately upon check in. Details here:

http://www.blackforest-tourism.com/konus

You can check the Basel-Interlaken fare of 28 CHF at www.sbb.ch ; that should be the regular price available anytime, but you can peruse that site to see if there's a better price available.

Interlaken to Luzern 9/24: (also check www.sbb.ch )

Luzern to Rothenburg ob du Tauber 9/26: again, purchase at the DB site, a week from tomorrow on 6/23, the first day available.

Rothenburg to Frankfurt 9/28: also at the DB site; purchase in advance on 6/25 for the best price. Maybe go to Mainz instead of Frankfurt...

For a final night in Germany, I usually recommend Mainz, which has a pleasant Marktplatz with outdoor dining, a nice old town area, and car-free shopping area, all located near the Dom. It's about 25 minutes from Mainz to FRA, 3.90 Euros, on the S-Bahn or the RE train. The Mainz Ibis is very near the Mainz Römisches Theater train station (so named because of the Roman theater being unearthed at the rear platform); it's also closer to the old town than the hotels near the main station (Mainz Hbf) but the Hbf station has more hotel choices. Both areas are generally safe places to overnight.

If you stay near Mainz Hbf, there are buses that will take you down to the Dom, #'s 55, 61, 63, maybe others too. Get off at the Höfchen/Listmann stop and you're almost there.

If you stay at the Ibis and want to reach the old town, walk down Neutorstrasse which turns into Augustinerstrasse, the main old town artery.

Make sure you keep your tickets purchased in advance in a safe spot (like a waist belt) throughout your trip.

Best wishes for an enjoyable trip.

nanaof4

Russ: I went online to try to purchase the ticket from Cochem to Freiburg on the DB website today, but ran into some problems. First of all there were 3 different possibilities for Cochem: Cochem (Mosel), Cochem (Mosel)KD and Cochem Bahnhof. I know this is a small village, so was a little confused as to how there could be three possibilities and which to choose. So, anyway I chose the first one, and a departure time, but was never able to follow the link through to allow purchase. I am sorry to be such a bother, but if you can help me with this I would be so grateful.

Thanks, Joy

Russ

Either Cochem(Mosel) or Cochem Bahnhof will work.

For towns of any size there are often numerous stops listed at the DB site. These stops include include common destinations (like the KD boat docks) for which you must walk or proceed by bus after leaving the train and alternative names for stations (like "Cochem Bahnhof".) In larger cities, the stop choices include suburban stations.


When you tried to purchase, you probably got this message:

"Sale possible 92 days in advance at earliest"

That's because I goofed and mistakenly used 9/16 for your travel date when I tested it myself. You have to wait a little longer. Sorry. You should try again on Sunday afternoon, when the clock strikes midnight in Germany. I believe that this error messed up the two other dates I gave you for the other two advance-purchase tickets as well. You should recheck that 92-day window for both.

Again, make sure you read the conditions of sale for the cheap advance sale tickets. They have worked great for me in the past and saved me lots of $. This spring, I got from Bacharach to the northern Black Forest town of Bad Liebenzell for 19 Euros, and from Stuttgart to Zürich for the same price. Regular tickets would have cost 100 Euros. But I'm the sort of traveler who plans his time and doesn't mind keeping an exact schedule. There are fees for changing your departure time or itinerary, and you lose out if you change your mind at the last minute or miss your train at some point, meaning you'll need to buy an additional, more expensive ticket.

There's also a chance that the price you pay for the adv. sale tickets is higher if the very cheapest seats should sell out before you've made your purchase.

If you sense that getting or using these tickets will be too much trouble, you can always opt for the more expensive railpass. There's currently a small discount on the 5-day German railpass - $273 - which would take care of almost all your German routes. In Switzerland you'd pay 43.50 for Basel-Interlaken-Luzern and the same going back into Germany (some itineraries for Rothenburg take you back through Basel anyway) so add $100, meaning a total price of $373, about $150 more than buying individual tickets at the best prices. But for this price you do get more convenience and more piece of mind - there's less computer angst, more flexibility when you travel should you miss a train or want to stay somewhere longer, no need to purchase tickets as you go (within Germany anyway.) Railpasses are more forgiving of error and allow you to make extra trips, should you want to, on any particular railpass day. So if you got to Bacharach, checked in, and were ready for adventure, you could hop on another train that same day to see another village.

Anyway, you have a couple of days to mull this over now and decide what's best for you.

Russ

To clarify: I said, "There's currently a small discount on the 5-day German railpass - $273 - which would take care of almost all your German routes."

The price is $273 - not the discount. This special is explained and available here:

http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/germany.cfm

PalenQ

If you want fully flexible unfettered travel to just hop on any train anytime you want in Germany then the German Railpass is often a great deal as full fares can be really steep - check out www.bahn.de to see what say Swiss border to Frankfurt is full fare - of course you have the online advance discounts and things like the Lander or regional passes but these tickets all have restrictions like being train specific - you must decide often weeks in advance to get the cheaper tickets about the exact train you wish to take and cannot change it and in the case of Lander tickets you cannot travel on the fastest trains - so if you want the easiest way look strongly at the pass and IME of traveling for years on German trains any single 65-yr old traveler should definitely go first class - where you will always IME find lots of empty seats so you can easily stow your baggage on an empty seat next to you, etc. And the pass compared to first class tickets is even a greater deal - just hop on any train anytime - just go to the station and hop on any of zillions of trains - anyway for lots on German rail travel and passes and Lander tickets, etc check out these fantastic IMO web sites - www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. And again www.bahn.de the official German State Railways web site for schedules and to compare fares at the station in Germany and online advance discounts with restrictions. The pass would take you to the Swiss border and then just buy regular tickets to your limited Swiss destinations.

PalenQ

the German Pass special, which is not unique to ricksteves.com I think but offered by ACP Rail, wholesalers or German Passes in North America, ends July 11, 2011 so if buying buy before that date - but apparently only applied to 5- and 10-day passes and not the 6-, 7-, 8-, 9-day passes in between the may better comport to some folks needs - perhaps my quick read missed something but thanks to Russ for bringing that to light.

PalenQ

And OP should also investigate the Germany-Switzerland railpass though it is more expensive per day would cover all train trips and either pass - German or German-Swiss would also cover boats - K-d boats on the Rhine in Bacharach area and between Koblenz and Cochem on the Mosel - including a stop at Moselkern for visiting Burg Eltz, one of Germany's most famous and awesome castles, hovering high above the Mosel gorge in a sylvan setting. Trains also stop at Moselkern, just a few miles downstream on the Mosel from Cochem, fairytale Cochem, the type of town most Americans only dream about staying in but never get off the beaten track of huge mega tourist cities to actually do so! Great choice as is Bacharach!

PalenQ

OP has six days of rail travel inside Germany - a 6-day German Pass (without discount Russ mentions above) costs $322 for a solo adult traveler - that is $54 a day or about 35 euros a day - for totally flexible unlimited travel in all of Germany - not just one district and no restrictions - just hop on - for a single traveler I do not see how this can be beat IF one desires flexibility to hop any train anytime - with the discounted train-specific tickets you must be at the station at the exact time - if you are like me and prefer to leisurely pack up in my hotel and head to station and catch the next of the usually twice-hourly trains this can be priceless. And again the pass covers K-D boats on the Rhine, another plus.

and if more travel days were figured in the extra day on the pass above the 5-day minimum in 2nd class is only $29 or about 20 euros a day for unlimited at will hopping trains in all of Germany - 20 euros a day.

nanaof4

To PalenQ - Thank you for your help. I still have not decided which to do, point to point or rail pass. But I have lots more information to help me make an intelligent decision.

And, Bacharach has been a favorite village ever since our first European adventure in 1994. I have been there so many times and know exactly where I will stay (If she has a room, and I'm sure she will).

My husband and I never stayed in Cochem, but we stopped there many times. We have stayed in Beilstein, which I love, but the train does not go there. We stayed in Beilstein on our last trip, rented bikes and rode to Cochem. This time I hope to rent a bike in Cochem and ride to Beilstein. Have also stayed in Zell several times and Bernkastel-Keuz.

PalenQ

nanof4 - I am too a denizen of the Mosel, having biked up and down the valley between Trier and Koblenz several times - Beilstein is cute but small and quiet - Cochem is cute but in season a vacation hub - especially popular it seems with the Dutch who come here to see hills one told me. There are frequent buses Cochem to Beilstein and in season boats as well but biking is fine if the weather is and even in summer the weather here IME can be cool and blustery.

PalenQ

I think with OP's itinerary and tickets the key factor is whether he/she desires flexibility or not to just show up at the station and hop any train (or K-d Rhine/Mosel boat though a few of these do not accept the pass) - if you can live with restrictions that come with the discounts - like on long-distance trains being train-specific and non-changeable nor refundable I believe then for your itinerary that would be the best, along with Lander Passes, though again you are restricted from using the fastest trains, which also are IME the most comfy ones - regional trains IME can be really crowded at times.

travlsolo2

PalenQ -- I too like the Mosel for biking.... funny you should mention the Dutch liking Cochem -- it seems a Dutch couple bought the Hotel Brauer in Treis-Karden (in Karden) where I've stayed several times. I think it had been in the Brauer family since 1792. I'll be there again in early October; reasonable bike rental in Karden, so I hope weather cooperates.

nanaof4 -- I love solo/train travel in Germany; it is so easy, especially with a railpass. Have a wonderful time! Report back afterwards -- would love to hear how it went.

PalenQ

nanao - if you have not been to Trier, upriver from Beilstein/Cochem, hop the train there as this is a UNESCO World Heritage city (I think if not IMO it should be!) with what may be the most imposing Roman ruins/relics north of the Alps - once capital of the Western Holy Roman Empire the intact Porta Negra is a city gate that was the gateway to the eastern empire - there is also an old Roman temple converted around Constantine's era or so into a Christian basilica - and there is also the Karl Marz Haus where Marx and Marxism I guess was born and a sweet pedestrian town center. Though Trier, seriously bombed in WW2, lacks old-world charm it has been nicely rebuilt. All in all a great great day trip from any Mosel/Rhine base.