willis

we plan one week biking the mosel (trier?), one week in munich and one week walking/exploring garmisch.
is it more expensive to land in frankfurt and depart from munchen? do you suggest we rent a car in frankfurt to continue on to southern germany?

thanks.

annhig

Dear Willis - are you arriving from the UK or US? Whichever, it isn't necessarily more expensive to fly "open jaw" but it can be - you need to research the different airline options.
i would not have thought that you needed a car in Munich and you can easily get a train from frankfurt to munich - www.bahn.de will answer all your queries in english.

there are some recent threads on trips in the munich area which you can access by searching on this forum for "munich".

Good luck!

J_Correa

We spent several days in Munich and didn't have a car. We didn't need one. Between the S-Bahn, U-Bahn, and the trams, we were able to go everywhere we wanted. Traffic seemed pretty bad in Munich, esspecially around the city center, so I imagine that having a car and trying to see the sights would be a hassle.

Larryincolorado

I wouldn't expect you to rent a car for your bike tour, and in Munich a car is more of a liability than an asset. But you still have to get from the Mosel to Munich? Although I generally favor rail travel using Länder Tickets to save money, this is a long trip. I thought maybe a car would be quicker and more economical than the train. But do you rent a car for just one day?

The best quote I could find for a one day car rental from Koblenz to Munich was €85,42 ($109) for a small, compact car with no insurance coverage. Michelin's estimate of fuel for the trip was €52.92, a total cost of €138,34. A more comfortable, larger car, of course, would cost more. Michelin estimated the driving time at 4 hours 36 minutes.

The cost of two full fare second class tickets on a modern EuroCity express train is €148. The direct train from Koblenz to Munich takes 4 hour 59 minutes.

In comparing the two options, considering the time to pickup and turn in the car, the train is undoubtedly faster. Plus there is a restaurant on board, so you don't have to stop for food. You also don't have to stop to get fuel or find a bathroom, the seats are more comfortable, you can get up and walk around, and there is no worry about getting lost or damaging the car. I would definitely take the train to Munich.

BTW, with a full fare ticket, you have until midnight of the following day to complete your trip. You can get off anywhere along the way (Mannheim, Heidelberg, Ulm, Augsburg) and continue with the trip later, as long as you board an EC/IC or lesser train (no ICE).

If you are making the trip on the weekend, and you don't mind spending a lot of time to save money, both of you can go all the way to Munich for only €30 with a Schönes-Wochenende Tickets, but it will take 8 1/2 hours on regional trains.

DAX

Another alternative is to buy the special offer train EC/IC tickets from Cologne(Koln) to Klagenfurt(Austria) for 39 euro per person. You can buy it on the internet by selecting Cologne(Koln)origin and Klagenfurt & date/time to get the sparpreis of 39 euro at:
http://www.reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin...mp;destination.

If you touch the Koln red dot, it shows you what destination cities have
the discounted fares. You can also buy these tickets in Koblenz/Trier station even though the offer is from Koln. They don't have a problem if you get on in Koblenz (which is after Koln but enroute to Klagenfurt) but you don't have to announce that you're getting off in Munich as the destination is supposed to be Klagenfurt,Austria. These special offers are for travelling out of Germany, but just like an airline ticket you can forfeit the last leg/part of a flight.

I find riding the train is a lot better considering you'll be driving thru the worst traffic ridden freeways. German trains are really wonderful, very clean & stress free.

DAX

If you must have a car for travelling to the castles/towns just outside of Munich, you'll find the cheapest rates at www.sixti.com.

If there's only two of you, you can rent a smart car which is a small two seater commuter car (not a race car) made by Mercedes Benz for 5 euro a day. If you want a 4 seater car then it'll cost you 29 euro a day. You can even rent it for a day by picking up early and dropping off before they close at 5-6 pm. Then you don't have to worry about parking inside Munich at all. Good luck, I hope you enjoy finding all these travel options.

Larryincolorado

Dax, be careful what you tell people.

According to the Bahn website, tickets at that fare CANNOT be purchased at station ticket counters, only online ("Das Angebot ist exklusiv auf www.bahn.de als Online-Ticket&quot. That information can be found on the Bahn website in German under "Surf&Rail International". The tickets are limited in quantitiy and require a three day advance purchase (online). He can start the process for online ordering by going to the bahn website, clicking "Internat. Guest" for English, then "First time registration", and follow the instructions. Good news is when you purchase the ticket, you can print it out at home before you go over. Also note that there are trains from Köln and Frankfurt to Wien, but they go through Passau, not Munich, so that might not work as well.

Apparently you can do this legitimately (ie, start in Koblenz and get off in Munich), and you don't even have to purchase the ticket as from Köln to Klangenfurt. I tried putting in Koblenz to Munich and it came back with the offer. I did, however, have to request the price for Monday, which is more than three days in advance.

Right now, through Dec 9, the Bahn has an offer called Herbst-Spezial (Fall Special) which is from anywhere in Germany to anywhere else in Germany for only €29. Last summer they had something similar. Next year, when it gets close to his time to go, it might make sense to check the Bahn website. These offers are usually only shown in German, but come up on the connections page if you put in the right information.

DAX

That's interesting Larry, because I've bought it at the DB Reiseburo at the station in the past, but they must have changed it since then. I purchased it on the internet two other times after that because I was able to determine my travel time before I flew out to Germany. It's true you must buy it at least 3 days ahead even then, plus you can't change the time/date once you bought it. There are plenty of details that you can read on the website. I just want to share this overlooked special offer since you quoted Willis 148 euro.


I was in a bit of a hurry earlier to try to find the English site but I figured Willis can get to the English website on his own. Now I just tried it and it seems that this offer is not available in English at all. I would suggest that anyone who needs to read the details in English to use the AltaVista BabelFish translator which translates a whole website into English. I've used it for the French train website successfully.

DAX

Larry you must have a lot of time as I notice how much dilligence & research you put into my suggestion. Well done. I still can't find the same map offer page in English. Let me know if you actually found the same page in English.

You've got it right, you shouldn't buy the ticket to Vienna as it would not pass through Munich at all. That's the reason why I specifically mentioned Klagenfurt as the destination. These destinations change slightly every year. The limited time Fall (Herbst) Offer is not something that will remain valid next year so I'm not sure if it's worth recommending to Willis.

Larryincolorado

Dax, I only mentioned the Herbst-Spezial because German Rail often has similar specials running - I believe there was a Sommer-Spezial, but I can't remember the details. It would be worth while for him to look as his trip time nears. While any similar special next year probably won't be in English, the fares will show up if you put in the right input (make sure the date is 3 days in advance) on the query page.

I mentioned the full fare (€148) as a comparison to the cost of a car rental. I know there are ways to get lower fares than that. Speaking of throwing away part of the ticket, he could get a round trip SparPreis 50 Ticket from Koblenz to Munich for as little as €111 for two people. A SparPreis Ticket can be exchanged up to the day before travel for a €15 fee. I believe that, if specific connections are still available, SparPreis Tickets can be purchased at ticket counters up to three day in advance of travel. These tickets do sell out, but there are a lot of connection options available between Koblenz and Munich. I just found SparPreis Tickets available for travel starting Sunday (3 days from now). Summer travel season might not be the same.

BTW, I learned something from you last night. I had long been aware that the Frankfurt-Wien connections for the Europa-Spezial fare did not go through Munich, but I did not know that the Klangenfurt connection did. I also found out that you can buy tickets at the same fare for just a portion of the Europa-Spezial connection - in this case Koblenz to Munich.

There are a lot of special offers of the Bahn that are only shown in German; Europa-Spezial or Surf&Rail International is one of them. Look at "Angebote ABC" from the German language home page. I guess they don't think many non-Germans will use them, so they don't bother to translate them into English. There are, z.B., a "Werdenfels Ticket" for the area around Garmisch-Partenkirchen that I am going to suggest to Willis as an option. There are also special fares from Munich, Regensburg, and Nürnberg to Prague, but I don't think I found them at Angebote ABC.

DAX

Larry, the only drawback of the SPARPREIS 50/25 is you have to buy a ROUNDTRIP ticket, so there goes the saving if you're going one way from Koblenz to Munich as it will give you the 148 Euro again at the 50% rate.

One wonders if the Deutsche Bahn prefers to aim the special offers for the locals only considering there are limited seats available. Thus far I never had a problem getting the Europe special rate even at the 3 day prior limit(I like to keep my options open to the deadline), though I had to adjust to the departure time that's left for the day I wanted. The Sparpreis is so widely known/used that the seats are often gone even one week before. I believe the Sparpreis 50 used to have a minimum 7 day purchase, I'm too lazy to check.

Larryincolorado

"the only drawback of the SPARPREIS 50/25 is you have to buy a ROUNDTRIP ticket, so there goes the saving if you're going one way from Koblenz to Munich as it will give you the 148 Euro again at the 50% rate."

That is true for a single traveler, but with the SparPreis fare, the 2nd through 5th "Mitfahrer" gets another 50% discount off of the already discounted SparPreis fare. Check out the Koblenz to Munich fares on Bahn.de. Use a round trip with a weekend stay starting 3 days hence. You'll see.

They used to do that for point-point tickets as well, but ended it a couple of years ago. All the fare structure of DB is subject to revision on Dec 9. I really wonder if they will keep that feature.

Larryincolorado

Up until now, the Bahn website would not give fares (and ticket purchase opportunity) beyond the upcoming December revision date, but this year it is. I just checked the SparPreis 50 fare for a date in January and it still shows the companion discount.

Of course, they can still change things on the 10th, but as of right now, they are still offering the "Mitfahrer Rebatt" with the SparPreis fares.

The change should take place Sunday morning, the 10th, at midnight Germany time. That's 4 PM Saturday for me. You can be sure I will be on the website checking for changes.

DAX

Enjoyed having this train chat with you Larry. Are European trains in general a hobby of yours or do you focus on German trains only? I may have some detailed questions on Italian trains in the future. You seem to enjoy studying train schedules/tickets so thoroughy. My knowledge merely comes from past experiences as I've been going to Germany 2-3 times a year.

Larryincolorado

While you are in Munich, you might as well take advantage of some of the offers of the Munich metro district (MVV).

With one exception, everything you want to see is in the Munich inner zone (Innenraum). For 2 - 5 people, a day ticket for the inner zone costs €8,50. That gives you unlimit travel on the S-Bahn, U-Bahn, streetcars, and buses. A three day ticket for up to 5 people costs €30. If you want to see Dachau, a day ticket for an expanded area including the memorial is €11,50 (2-5 people). For this you can go out to the Dachau S-Bahn stop and take the bus to the memorial, and return, plus any other travel within the expanded XXL zone that day. The classic map showing the S/U-Bahn network with zones can be found at http://www.mvv-muenchen.de/web4archi...etz_051211.pdf. Prices for the various day tickets can be found at http://www.mvv-muenchen.de/en/home/f...ces/index.html.

If you decide to venture out of Munich, you can, for instance, spend a day in Salzburg. As long as you leave after 9 AM (anytime on weekends), you can use a Bayern Ticket to travel to Salzburg and return, for up to 5 people on regional trains, for €25. The Bayern Ticket also covers all of your travel in Munich MVV for that day (after 9 AM weekdays). The Bayern Ticket would also be valid for travel to Rothenburg, Passau, Füssen, anywhere in Bavaria.

Larryincolorado

Sorry, I should proof-read better. A three day partner (2-5 people) day ticket for the inner zone is €20 (not thirty).

Larryincolorado

DAX, my real focus has been on German rail travel. Being of German ancestory and having a passion for learning the German language, that has been where my travel has been concentrated. Also, German rail travel presents the biggest challenge because of all the possibilities for using the system to save money. I don't go as often as you do, but I plan a lot, and that means researching the options. Then, when someone asks a question on this site, I know where to go for the answer, and in the process learn more.

I think that once you learn to navigate one country's rail system and website, the next ones come easier, so I have found myself able to find information on rail travel in other countries when someone asks. I have never traveled in Italy (don't want to), but I have spent some time on Trenitalia, so if you have a question about using the website, ask. I might know, and I will certainly tell you if I don't.

By the way, at the suggestion of PalQ, I started putting what I have found, and more importantly, links to the sites where anyone can find the information, on my own website, www.geocities.com/reise_deutschland. It is a work in progress, still incomplete; I add more information as I discover it.

DAX

You did a fantastic job on the German transportation theme, now I understand why you're so into it. I share your enthusiasm about the German culture & language.

I will be planning a trip to Sud Tirol from Bavaria or Salzburg but haven;t finalized the specific destinations with our friends yet. I have seconds thoughts about taking the unreliable Trenitalia but our friends seem to be very enthusiastic about Sud Tirol. I'll start a new thread once I know where we want to go. Thanks.

ira

Hi willis,

For open-jaw fares click "multicity" at www.kayak.com.

bilboburgler

Watch out for Frankfurt and Franfurt Hahn airport confusion. Hahn is near the Mosel.

Loads of recent articles on Mosel bikes so I'll leave alone.

Munich for a week.....why?