Future Backpacking Itinerary help

Old Jun 11th, 2020, 08:13 AM
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It isn't a "big" deal, but, if you're traveling at the pace the OP is considering, having to futz around with luggage eats into the little sightseeing time he/she has in most destinations.

My problem with night trains is not being able to sleep well because of the many stops, noise, occasional temp issues in the train, etc., and then arriving bleary-eyed and tired and facing a full day of sightseeing. Night train rides just set me up for a less-than-enjoyable day.
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Old Jun 11th, 2020, 09:18 AM
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I have traveled at that pace, or with periods at that pace, and aside from the aforementioned issue in Lisbon, and one time sightseeing between (day) trains, did not have to schlep my luggage around with me during the day. Also sounds like the OP is younger and stronger than I was. Making sure you are staying somewhere central is, of course, a help.

Different people have different experiences with night trains, and it also depends on the train. I remember one in northern Vietnam on which I doubt anyone could have slept, but most European trains are much better.
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Old Jun 11th, 2020, 09:39 AM
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Personally I don't think night trains make a great deal of sense anymore. In many parts of Europe the high speed trains are so fast what do you gain? A lower price? Maybe but at the risk of a bad nights sleep and strange hours.

It doesn't take too much effort to take an early morning train or flight. You can often make it to the next stop around check in time for your hotel.
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Old Jun 11th, 2020, 12:04 PM
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I wouldn't do them often but I think they are OK for an occasional trip, where it is available and makes sense both for price and timing, for the kind of itinerary the OP is considering, trying to move so fast and see so much so quickly. It could be a time saver.

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Old Jun 11th, 2020, 12:12 PM
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"I wouldn't do them often but I think they are OK for an occasional trip"

That was my primary point. occasional. There area few routes (fewer every year though) where a night train is a good use of time and can be a fun experience. But with more and more High Speed trains, same day travel is easier than night trains. And (assuming things get back to semi-normal in the foreseeable future) really inexpensive fares mean some air routes make more sense than surface travel.
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Old Jun 11th, 2020, 12:14 PM
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I was not disagreeing with you janisj. I was disagreeing (mildly) with Traveler Nick who though they had no value or positive use.
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Old Jun 11th, 2020, 12:19 PM
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And I wasn't disagreeing with you I was sort of emphasizing your point . . . .
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Old Jun 11th, 2020, 12:31 PM
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Based on the OP's revised itinerary posted on Jun 7th, 2020, 09:33 AM, here is the itinerary, based on the number of NIGHTS mentioned in each place--almost 70 nights.

As others have mentioned, every time I relocate to another city to check into new lodging, I estimate at least half a day dedicated to checking in and out, traveling, waiting at stations, finding the way in a new city/country. Adding in airports adds more time. In this list, these relocation days are in bold.Day 1: arrive London (7 days, 6 nights)

Day 2: London

Day 3: London (Windsor?)

Day 4: London (Stonehenge?)

Day 5: London (Oxford?)

Day 6: London

Day 7: fly London to Dublin; sleep in Dublin

Day 8: Dublin

Day 9: fly Dublin to Lisbon; sleep in Lisbon

Day 10: Lisbon

Day 11: Lisbon (Sintra day trip?)

Day 12: fly Lisbon to Madrid; sleep in Madrid

Day 13: Madrid

Day 14: Madrid (Toledo day trip?)

Day 15: Madrid

Day 16: train Madrid to Barcelona; sleep in Barcelona

Day 17: Barcelona

Day 18: Barcelona

Day 19: fly Barcelona to Paris; sleep in Paris

Day 20: Paris

Day 21: Paris (Versailles?)

Day 22: Paris

Day 23: Paris (Giverny day trip?)

Day 24: Paris

Day 25: train Paris to Lille; sleep in Lille

Day 26: train Lille to Brussels; sleep in Brussels

Day 27: Brussels

Day 28: train Brussels to Amsterdam; sleep in Amsterdam

Day 29: Amsterdam

Day 30: Amsterdam (Delft day trip?)

Day 31: Amsterdam

Day 32: train Amsterdam to Cologne; sleep in Cologne

Day 33: Cologne

Day 34: train Cologne to Strasbourg; sleep in Strasbourg

Day 35: Strasbourg

Day 36: Strasbourg (Colmar day trip, Nancy ?)

Day 37: train Strasbourg to Zurich; sleep in Zurich

Day 38: Zurich

Day 39: trains and bus Zurich to Adelboden; sleep in Adelboden

Day 40: Adelboden

Day 41: train Adelboden to Milan; sleep in Milan

Day 42: Milan

Day 43: train Milan to Rome; sleep in Rome

Day 44: Rome

Day 45: Rome

Day 46: Rome

Day 47: Rome

Day 48: train Rome to Florence; sleep in Florence

Day 49: Florence

Day 50: Florence (Pisa day trip?)

Day 51: Florence

Day 52: train Florence to Modena; sleep in Modena

Day 53: train Modena to Venice; sleep in Venice

Day 54: Venice

Day 55 : Venice

Day 56: fly Venice to Vienna; sleep in Vienna

Day 57: Vienna

Day 58: Vienna

Day 59: train Vienna to Salzburg; sleep in Salzburg

Day 60: Salzburg

Day 62: train Salzburg to Munich; sleep in Munich

Day 63: Munich

Day 64: train Munich to Berlin; sleep in Berlin

Day 65: Berlin

Day 66: Berlin

Day 67: Berlin (Wolfsburg day trip?)

Day 68: Berlin

Day 69: Fly Berlin to home
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Old Jun 11th, 2020, 12:43 PM
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Aside from more flights than I like, and two one nighters, that looks perfectly doable.

In addition to the night trains from Lisbon to Madrid and Venice to Vienna, you can also do Barcelona to Paris by night train. The day train now takes six and a half hours, so may be competitive with the plane when taking wait time and transit to/from airports into account.

https://www.seat61.com/international...tm#Spain-Paris
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Old Jun 11th, 2020, 01:06 PM
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I counted 65, several others counted 47 or even 67... I'm still not sure how long this trip is!
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Old Jun 11th, 2020, 01:53 PM
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I counted 66 nights (67 including the overnight flight to Europe) -- but in any case it includes 22 different stop overs of various lengths AND either 10 or 12 day trips (not sure if he's eliminated the London day trips since they are not listed on the latest version) - so at minimum 34 travel days out of a 68-ish day trip. A very very high % of the trip is spent in transit. I sure as heck wouldn't spend that much time and money in trains, train stations, airports, airplanes, and packing/schlepping. But he's been given lots of advice so let's wait and see if he comes back with some revised ideas.
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Old Jun 11th, 2020, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by thursdaysd View Post
The day train now takes six and a half hours, so may be competitive with the plane when taking wait time and transit to/from airports into account.
The problem with doing that math that way is it just looks at time and not when the time is.

You can take the 9am flight and be in the centre of Barcelona before you can check in for your room. There are earlier Paris to BCN flights also. If you're willing to give up some sleep to take those early flights you end up with at least a half day in Barcelona. If OTOH you take the train you'll arrive IIRC around 5pm.

So yes the total time isn't that different but on a fast paced schedule giving up a little sleep is often better than giving up a whole day.

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Old Jun 11th, 2020, 08:27 PM
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For Barcelona to Paris I'd rather have the sleep and the scenery, not to mention less hassle, but YMMV.
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Old Jun 11th, 2020, 10:34 PM
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The sort of schedule the OP posted sleep is a luxury
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Old Jun 11th, 2020, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Traveler_Nick View Post
The sort of schedule the OP posted sleep is a luxury
When young sleep often is not a luxury, it is a waste of time to be avoided (except in the morning)
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Old Jun 12th, 2020, 04:21 PM
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Hi Laney, just a thought about your trip to Wolfsburg - it's on the way between Munich and Berlin. You might just go to Berlin via Wolfsburg (day 64-65) rather than interrupt your stay in Berlin. Having said that, there is not a whole heap to do in Wolfsburg apart from Volkswagen (which might be an important stop for you), but it is close to the Harz Mountains and there are quite a few places in the area that you might combine it with (Goslar, Wolfenbüttel, the Brocken railway, Quedlinburg, Wernigerode). But don't short-change Berlin, save the Harz for another trip when you do Germany in detail. Good luck, it will be a great trip when you sort out the details!

Lavandula

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Old Jun 13th, 2020, 05:57 PM
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Hello! I did plan on doing the Autostadt and Volkswagen museum.. Thanks so much for the suggestion though, I will consider doing it before Berlin.
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Old Jun 14th, 2020, 05:27 PM
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Good evening! I have updated the itinerary and put it in calendar form.



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Old Jun 14th, 2020, 06:09 PM
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I was going to say that it looked good, except I would want longer in Venice, until I realized you will be in Venice at the end of June. Can you consider switching things around to put Italy after Spain and finish in the Netherlands? It will be hot and crowded by the time you get to Venice. Or, for that matter, start in Spain and finish in London? London in April may be fine, but there is a better chance in June.
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Old Jun 14th, 2020, 08:47 PM
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After Spain is May day. That week is going to be crowded no matter where the OP goes. Where Italy is on the schedule is likely the least problematic in terms of weather and crowds.

April and May there is Easter and the two national holidays. A very busy period normally. The OP could put Italy after Paris but I wouldn't worry that much about the weather in June. This year is closer to too cool than too warm.
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