Since my daughter was married just last Saturday I have a certain familiarity with Brides magazine. Found it interesting that the March-April issue weighing two and a half pounds was comprised of over 1100 pages, only 90 of which were devoted to editorial content; the rest, ads. Think the problem with its staff writers is not finding new material but rather space for any material.

Ninety pages of content is still a lot to come up with - - when it doesn't change all that much, year after year.<BR><BR>Ninety pages of actual writing is more than People magazine has in a year!<BR><BR>jk...<BR><BR>

Asia, Europe is not about big cities. It is about regions and cultures. So, do 3 destinations in France,or Italy,or Spain but why mix these 3 far flung major cities. If you must, then Madrid does not fit.

Asia, I think that Elvira was right on. I've never done a nasty post on this forum before, but you take the cake. You want us to do all of your research for you whilst you sit on your fat ass. If you came with legit questions, there is no dearth of answers waiting for you, but to come with such a broad question of "I have 2 weeks vacation, what should I do" is absurd. I think that you should stay at home

I've been watching this post for 3 days. Even though the poster has come accross like some CEO bossing around her paid underlings, some of our best and most knowlegeable forum members have tried to answer her ridiculously broad questions. Going to the library or bookstore and doing some research is an excellent suggestion.<BR> What are you planning to contribute back to this forum?<BR>What if I were to say to you that I've got 2 weaks off and I want to go to the Far East or Asia or someplace. I know nothing about the place. Where should I go? What should I eat? Where should I stay? How long? I don't have time to read about it or anything. I'm too busy to waste my time on that stuff. You just tell me everything to do. And, please don't bother to talk to me if you are not going to make me feel good!<BR>I couldn't agree with Art more. Europe has already seen its share of obnoxious, selfish and ignorant people.<BR>Stay Home!!!

I don't usually get involved in this sort of thing, but I've just about had it with lazy, self-centered, demanding brats who take no responsibility for themselves and who think they are entitled to whatever they want. Anyone who doesn't agree with that is called "unhelpful" or worse, with the intention to be made to feel small and on the defensive. Well, asia, you're a pompous, immature jerk who is completely wrong.<BR> <BR>"I found that out of the 3 responses that I received that only RICHARDAB answered my question and helped me out as oppose to telling me to go to the library!" We thought we were being helpful by suggesting a visit to a library; you should have told us up front you had no time for such nonsense like research.<BR><BR>"I thought this site was for us to swap travel ideas, tips, and stories...didn't know I would have to visit a library first!!!!" SWAP? Swap what? You offered nothing but a petulant "tell me what to do"; when asked for further information, you refused to respond with nothing but diatribes.<BR><BR>"MY REQUEST FOR SUGGESTIONS FOR MY EUROPE TRAVEL/VACATION STILL REMAINS....please advise/suggest on this topic." You use all caps, which is hollering, and I'd say that was copping a 'tude. The second ORDERS the reader to answer you. That's telling us what to do, and is downright snotty (not "snooty" - maybe you ought to learn to read better).<BR><BR>"Please don't post any replies if you are not going to be helpful with my situation...I find it frustrating!!" So, we have to guess what's helpful to your situation, because if we guess wrong, you'll be all over us like stink on shit. Who cares if you're frustrated? You brought in on yourself.<BR><BR>Wherever the hell you're from, stay there and grow up. <BR><BR><BR><BR>

Elvira....YOU GO GIRL!!!!!!<BR><BR>And Asia...didn't want to hear any more of your whining so I brought this to the top for you...you are welcome.

Asia,<BR><BR>Now we're getting somewhere! <BR><BR>You've narrowed your trip to three cities. Of those you've selected, I'd highly recommend that you spend the entire two weeks in Madrid. It is the city in which you're most likely to be bonked on the head and robbed.

Frustrated, just please go away. We are not here to help you plan the rest of your life. We owe you nothing. You obviously don't get what this is all about. The yellowdawg.

Elvira - like you I don't usually get involved in these things. I have great respect for your opinions, but I think your response is a bit over the top.

jjj, why is my response over the top? Is it because we're all so used to this nonsense that we just tolerate it? That lack of responsibility and blaming of others are now acceptable, and there's something wrong with a person who finds that intolerable? Well, I'm not going to take it anymore. If asia or any other self-centered twit wants to stand in the middle of the room like a two-year-old "mommy where's my shoe?", let 'em. When they throw a temper tantrum and become insulting because "mommy" isn't jumping to their demands, or they're being given good advice but spit on it because advice isn't really what they want - they want someone else to do all the work and take all the responsibility so that if everything goes right, they can take the credit, but if it goes wrong, they'll have someone to blame; they need to be slapped hard.

I think it is a "little" over the top, Elvira. Asia got some ("deserved") wrath by posting three times. But nothing is harder than knowing what you don't know you don't know.<BR><BR>The time it would take to ask about this three times could have been used to see the wealth of information available here - - it would be like writing into Brides magazine and asking "where can i find out about wedding dresses" - - to which we might reply "Geez, would you just thumb through the magazine for a few minutes - - and realize that you can and should formulate a better question than that!?"<BR><BR>Elvira, you answer was over the top by suggesting that this represents a character flaw. We do not know that Asia lacks personal resposibility. And it has given rise to scapegoating, and piling on, on this thread.<BR><BR>Doesn't do the forum any good, in my opinion.<BR>

Elvira, Art &amp; others: I completely agree with you. However, after watching what's going on here, I'm beginning to think this may be a troll. What do you think?

I have been shopping at Krogers for a while and am currently venturing out to do some shopping elsewhere...not too sure where to go so am posting this question.<BR><BR>Any advice on there to go and what to buy? Only answer if you are going to help me with my grocery shopping.

Rex:<BR>I first learned about this forum from an article in Forbes Magazine. They advised that whenever visting a new forum, you should "lurk awhile" until you become familiar with the "forum etiquette" before you ask anything. Too bad Fodor's doesn't give this advise to everyone.<BR>Posting 3 times has happened before and is certainly an excusable newcommer mistake. I'm sure everyone on the asia forum does this. However it went beyond this. To use your analogy it whould be more like writing to Brides magazine and saying: I don't have time to read your damned magazine and I'm not interested in a subscription so don't ask. Just tell me what's the best dress to buy!<BR>What I got from these postings was: This is how we do it on the asia forum. I tell you what I want and you give it to me. If you give me a response I don't like, I will insult you. That's called biting the hand that feeds you. I find this very offensive. If I were Elvira, I'd be angry too. In fact I am and I haven't even been attacked yet. But some posters whom I respect were insulted even though some may not even realize it.<BR>Asia: You can watch Rick Steves on TV and save the trip to the library. Just check your local listings for time and channel. He will even sell you books and tapes. And, its cheaper not to mention safer than actually taking a trip. <BR><BR>Gerry<BR>Gerry <BR><BR><BR>

Of the two, I think Elvira committed a lesser offense than Asia. but Elvira has had a lot more time to know better (I don't know anything about Asia's postings on the Asia forum).<BR><BR>I agree with you that better advice on how to use this forum would go a long way. On the www.eurotrip.com forum, and to a lesser extent on www.lonelyplanet.com - - there are clear instructions to "learn the culture" of the forum, and read messages there before posting one. Good idea.<BR><BR>It seems that fodors has always been reluctant to post "how-to" advice on using this forum. Back in April, when "hot links" were enabled (was it unintended, perhaps), they never did post any information about its use. I effectively became the technical support for this feature for a while. And today, a simpler system of URL's for a thread is possible - - and again, not a peep.<BR><BR>

Frankly, I think it was high time someone gave asia a swift kick. I'm glad Elvira did the work so I wouldn't have to.<BR><BR>As usual, Rex, you are way off base and out of line. As far as I'm concerned, it isn't your place to dress down Elvira when you have committed far more and far greater infractions.

Rex, I have appreciated a lot of good information that you have offered in this forum, but to tell Elvira that she is over the top is a little much. If she is than so am I. <BR>Barbara, I've been thinking the same thing lately. This could certainly be a troll. If so I have to admit that it is the best one yet. If not, wellll, I stand by my eralier comment that the person is a jerk.<BR>Regards<BR>

I have to agree with Rex on this one. Some replies to Asia were a bit extreme. <BR><BR>Granted, Asia appeared demanding and petulant. Assuming, however, that they are new to the Europe forum, would it not have been more productive to diplomatically and patiently point out the error of their ways? Since when does a war of words become the best option in resolving any matter? To the rather angry posters: What was the goal of your diatribe? To vent? To kick online a$$? To provide Asia with a better understanding of how this forum works? Which would have been the most productive goal? <BR><BR>If Asia is guilty of anything, it was done in his/her ignorance. I am not excusing Asia's posting, however, whether or not you feel it is incumbent upon you to enlighten him/her about forum etiquette, nothing is gained through negative dialogue.<BR><BR>To Asia: the posters are right about gathering some info before asking questions. I can't imagine that in thinking about traveling to Europe you've never had some inkling as to what would interest you. What cities or countries have you dreamed about visitng? Europe is many things, many cultures, many peoples- not monocultural.

Perhaps Asia is overwhelmed about where to go and what to do. Yes, more research is required on Asia's part, but I think some people here could be a little kinder. If a new person was reading this, there would only be the "experienced" travelers left to converse amongst themselves -- everyone else would be frightened away!<BR><BR>Not everyone has the finances or time to think that they're going to come back to Europe, so they're looking at it as it's their only shot (obviously Asia has other travel experiences, and is looking forward to more). For many, it's the "trip of a lifetime", and looking for guidance is what they're doing. They DON'T know where to go, DON'T know what to do, and want to see EVERYTHING! How can you choose? Where do you start? Europe is too full of history, art and culture to be less than overwhelming. And to read through these posts as a newcomer is discouraging, at best. <BR><BR>Most of us have made trip choices based on friends' experiences, our desires, our business travels and what we read or see on tv or in the papers. And we always struggle with the choice. Most of us are unable to make several trips to Paris, Rome, etc. This is the one shot we get. And it's not only a "new city" for us to explore, it's also the language, the hospitality, the hotels, the food, everything is a shock!<BR><BR>Asia, I would also suggest a "bus tour" of the major cities -- that way, when you're ready, you can go back to the region or city that interested you most.<BR><BR>Or try this: <BR><BR>Paris to experience "joie de vivre"<BR><BR>London for a look at "Charles Dickens"<BR><BR>Rome for feeling like a "Gladiator"<BR><BR>Madrid for sangria and paella (and bullfighting -- art in itself if you can get past all the other gut wrenching stuff)<BR><BR>Venice for romance<BR><BR>Florence for art<BR><BR>Vienna for feeling regal<BR><BR>Prague for shopping<BR><BR>Amsterdam for culture shock!<BR><BR>Brussels for rain (and the BD museum)<BR><BR>And can I remind everyone that not everyone who posts here is American? That some things just don't translate well? For those who speak French but have English as their primary language think of "demander." Not the same intensity in French (to ask) as English (to ask without leaving room for a "no"), so perhaps there is something in the translation when you read these posts too. <BR><BR>