Does this make any sense.<BR>After spending s few days in Sevilla (side trip to Cordoba) to drive to Ronda (any idea how long a drive?) in the morning, spend the day and sleep over. Then drive to Granada in the morning (how long?), visit the Alhambra in the afternoon and sleep in Granada. Go to Nerja the next morning, spend the day there and sleep over. Get up the next morning (Sunday), drive to Malaga to catch a flight back home.<BR>My concerns are the following: car sickness, sleeping only one night per hotel (usually try to have at least 2 in each place), and driving from Nerja to Malaga the day of a flight.<BR>I keep trying to put Granada in (Alhambra) and it keeps on messing things up. Is there a better way to fit in 3 days starting from Seville and ending in Malaga? Should I just skip Granada? I've lived this long without it and save it for another time.<BR>Maybe skip Madrid at the start and then have more time to do the South at a slower pace and leave Madrid and Barcelona for another time?<BR>Ohhh Help!!

Think about this way:<BR>Starting in Sevilla early in the morning to Cordoba, visit Medina Azahara, the Mesquita and the town; one night in the Parador of Cordoba. The next day drive to Jaen (town and the Castle hill) and on to Granada, have a look at the old town; second night in the Parador or Alhambra Palace. Early in the morning buy a ticket and visit the Alhambra as early as possible. In the afternoon drive to Nerja, if possible vistit the Caves; the third night in the Parador of Nerja. Next morning you will go to the airport of Malaga.<BR>Regards<BR>Ralf<BR>In the afternoon

sorry for the second message: if you will not drive to Cordoba, like you have mentioned, you should spend the a day in Cadiz or in Jerez.

It sounds reasonable, but I would skip Nerja (too rush at the end). The cities you picked are beautiful and worth a visit. From Seville to Ronda is about 125-130 km; about 2 hours drive thru mountainous, but beautiful scenery. From Ronda you chose to go to Granada (about 3 hours drive); word of warning, don't wait for nightime to do this drive. It is a bit treacherous. If you are going to the Alhambra in the afternoon, make sure you have tickets ahead of time. Tickets to the place sell out quickly; without tickets you are kind of risking it. What month are you going?<BR><BR>As far as suggestions, without having your plan whole laid out is tough to suggest alternatives. You are doing Madrid, Barcelona, AND Andalucia on one trip!!!??? <BR><BR>What I wonder is Nerja for a day, if anything I would spend an afternoon and a day in Granada and drive that evening before the flight to Malaga. Always leave flex time on the day of your flight for unavoidable delays. Nerja deserves a whole weekend for what I hear; skip it this time and do it next time with justice

The plan is in the making and keeps changing. Leave U.S. near the end of September for 10 days excluding flying each way.<BR>Issues: reduce or eliminate automobile driving, car sickness is an issue, try to stay in any hotel at least 2 nights if possible.<BR>My current thoughts are: start in Madrid for 4 days including part of a day in Toledo (the Toledo side trip could be left out if we want to spend more time in Madrid). <BR>On the evening of the 4th day take the AVE to Seville. Spend 3 days in Seville (possibly train to Cordoba for part of one of the days or leave it out). <BR>On the evening of the 3rd day in Seville (6PM) take a train to Granada (3 hours). Go to the Alhambra (buy tickets in advance) in the morning and spend the afternoon and evening wandering in Granada. Pick up car rental in the morning and drive to and along the coast possibly to Marbella (any idea how long this ride will take?).<BR>This leaves most of 2 days. I would like to take a bus trip to Ronda but as I wrote car (bus) sickness is an issue and my wife might choose to stay in Marbella. Is there enough for her to do there for part of the day while I'm visiting Ronda? If we get there early enough on the first day I would go then, otherwise the last day leaving as early in the morning as possible so as to have some of the day left upon returning. We could leave in the evening and check into Malaga for the last night.<BR>I very much agree with Maira about sleeping the last night in the city of departure but depending upon the flight time I might try to convince myself to leave from Marbella to the airport. If this is no more than an hour I might be tempted, otherwise I would go to Malaga the evening before. But I'd rather not stay in Malaga.<BR>What do you think?

I forgot to ask. What is the drive like from Granada to the coast and along it?<BR>From what I have written you can probably tell that narrow, winding, treacherous are not good words and are to be avoided if at all possible.

Myer: These is what I foresee so far;<BR><BR>DRAFT ITINERARY:<BR><BR>DAY 1 Madrid (Royal Palace; Plaza Mayor, Puerta del Sol) <BR>DAY 2 Madrid (AM: Prado, PM; Parque del Retiro; one other museum)<BR>DAY 3 Toledo (half-day guided tour; come back on your own by late afternoon train)<BR>DAY 4 Head down to Seville (AVE train). Get situated in Seville.<BR><BR>DAY 5 Seville sightseeing<BR><BR>DAY 6 Seville sightseeing <BR>DAY 7 AM: Seville (souvenir shopping) PM: Drive to Granada<BR><BR>DAY 8 Granada<BR><BR>DAY 9 Drive down to Marbella (about 2 hours) Relax in Marbella/Puerto Banus (if you HAVE to go to Ronda; head out there as early as you can so you can return during daylight, that is why I asked when are you going; leave car-sickness prone people behind for this ride; they will be miserable).<BR><BR>DAY 10 Drive to Malaga Airport (one hour; easy drive; great roads).<BR><BR>Since you emphasize car sickness quite a bit, and you are already in a busy schedule, I wouldn't subject your companion to Ronda. Have a great time. Spain is fabulous.

Maira,<BR>Thanks for the great input! Actually you rushed the trip a little more than I did.<BR>We would have 4 days in Madrid including the trip to Toledo as we would take the AVE from Madrid to Seville in the evening of day four (less than 2 1/2 hours).<BR>Also, I think I count 10 days not counting travelling days. That leaves 2 days including the day we get to Marbella.<BR>I'm trying to have a car as little as possible. That has us (wife and myself) taking a 6PM train from Seville to Granada arriving 9PM.<BR>What's the drive like from Granada to Marbella? Do you use the same adjectives for this drive as the one to Ronda. I've seen on the Marbella web sight that we could take a bus from Granada to Marbella. Would that do instead of picking up a car in Granada? That would do the whole thing on train and bus without the need for a car.<BR>Thanks again for your great help.<BR>

The drive between Granada and Marbella is a good ride, good motorways, don't recall any particular rough parts. Granada's traffic, once in the city, is a bit rough. Having an extra day, I would drive towards Gibraltar (you don't need to go in, just the sight of The Rock from the road is spectacular). Then head out to the Route of the White Villages; very much Andalucia and not to be missed. Andalucia is meant to be enjoyed at a personal pace, a car is a good idea.

Maira,<BR>You seem to indicate that the ride from Granada to the coast and then westward is pretty tame. If that's the case I may be tempted to drive it.<BR>Also, my wife has suggested that I should go to Ronda and she could spend the time in Marbella. I'm not sure I want to do that. I'm tempted to skip the ride to Ronda.<BR>If I do that does it make sense to skip Marbella and stay somewhere else?<BR>You mention the Route of the White Villages. Exactly where is that and how much can we see without getting into the type of ride I'd like to skip?<BR>Thanks again.

I feel like I've been easedropping on Myer and Maira but my daughter and I are planning a similar trip in October and I was wondering if you could suggest some websites to learn more about these areas. Thanks.

I've been picking up some great information. I also am planning a trip to Spain in late October/early November.<BR>We have up to 2 1/2 weeks and would like to do some driving. We plan on Madird, Bilbao, Barcelona and Seville.<BR>Can this be done?? Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks. Mary

I was beginning to wonder if we were the only people alive (Maira and myself). It appears a few others have come to life.<BR>I have a few good web sites at home. I'll put them together this evening.<BR>As you can see I've place a few restrictions/goals due to experiences in the past.<BR>We find train travel extremely relaxing. My wife has had some travel sickness due to start/stop/turn transportation (The great bus ride from Sorrento to and along the Amalfi coast in Italy did her in). We also try to stay in any place at least 2 nights (does not always work out that way). It is much less rushed when you can take things out of a suitcase for at least 2 nights. We also try to keep the number of trains sleepers down. Our last trip had 3 sleeper nights and that was way too much. You just don't get the same night's sleep. This trip I don't have any.

Myer--- I know, for a while there it seemed nobody was heading or had been to Andalucia!! Anyway, to reiterate, the drive between Granada and Marbella is pretty tame and should be quite enjoyable. The Route of the White Villages is a collection of whitewashed small villages in the mountains (ouch!!) that have been preserved (Moorish origins) thru centuries. Actually, this preserved state owes its survival to its distance from the coast. When the Moors were defetaed by the Christian reconquest of the Iberian peninsula in the 15th Century, the Arabs were barred from living within a certain distance of the shoreline to prevent them from communicating with their kinsmen across the straits in Morocco. Luckily, while the coastal Arab settlements were depopulated and frequently destroyed, the mountains offered oftentimes unacessible reach to these settlements, and it aid in the preservation you see today. That's why the Moorish names; Mijas, Ronda, Casares, Gaucin, Ojen, Antequera, etc... Like I said, they are in the mountains, but you can always drive bordering the coast and see them from the distance. I still remembered the first time I saw Arcos de la Frontera from the road. It was just breathtaking. <BR><BR>As far as Ronda, your wife has a good idea there. Either Ronda or Mijas is a good trip. Mijas makes a good half-day, Ronda, you may need more time.<BR><BR>Bobbie and Mary, I'll get some info out for you guys as soon as I get home from work. May I suggest you seek out also Maribel, Pedro and Covadonga's postings in Spain. They are gems of info for Spain bound travelers.

Bobbie, <BR>The following are some of the web sites that I use and have used. <BR>1) Spanish train system <BR>http://www.renfe.es/ingles/index.html <BR>2) Probably the best train site for place like France, Switzerland, Italy (the Geman site) <BR>http://bahn.hafas.de/bin/query.exe/en <BR>3) Spain <BR>http://www.tizz.com/spain/home.htm <BR>4) Andalucia <BR>http://www.andalucia.com <BR>5) Spain <BR>http://www.tourspain.es/tg/en/tourism.html <BR>6) Spain <BR>http://www.spainlist.com <BR> <BR>Probably the best site is this one. Maybe I'll have Maira driving for me by the time we've got this nailed down. <BR> <BR>I guess the problem is that not knowing when we'll return I want to get in everything or at least the most spectacular sights. <BR> <BR>Maira, <BR>Do you promise the route from Granada is tame? <BR> <BR>Mijas seems to be so close to the coastal highway maybe my wife can handle it. <BR>If we skip Ronda why stay in Marbella? Any suggestions for an alternative? Is Marbella a walk around shopping town? What other sights are witning an hours or so and worth taking in? <BR>

Myer, thanks for the websites, I'll check them out later, you can check out Marbella at Marbella.com, it looks pretty and relaxing, maybe Maira will drive us around too

I've gone to Marbella.com. I forgot to list it. <BR>

Myer and Bobbie--- I'll be more than happy to oblige ; don't know about my driving, though.... By the way, Myer, take N323 towards the east coast (Motril), that portion of the route on to Marbella would be about it for a bit of mountains. After that is pretty flat. Like I said the ride is very enjoyable. <BR> <BR>Anyways, I mentioned to Mary about some websites. Some of Myer's were also on my bookmarks; here are some others: <BR> <BR> <BR>This website has a very, very good list of excellent web links for Spain info: <BR> <BR>http://www3.mistral.co.uk/latrobe/spain.htm <BR> <BR>The following websites have outstanding content and format of Spain info: <BR> <BR>http://www.spaintour.com/indexe.html <BR>http://tuspain.com/sites/web.htm <BR> <BR>The following websites have very updated information for Madrid: <BR> <BR>http://www.softguides.com/index_madrid.html <BR>http://www.visualware.es/guiamad/gnacion.htm <BR> <BR>The following link gives you a summary of the 50 most important works at El Prado Museum (important when time is precious). It also features a different painting every month and discusses it in great detail. <BR> <BR>http://museoprado.mcu.es/prado/html/ivisitas.html <BR> <BR>The following website has very info about Seville: <BR> <BR>http://www.sol.com/ <BR> <BR> <BR>The following site tells you a lot of great info about The Alhambra in Granada, including how to get tickets in advance: <BR> <BR>http://www.alhambra.org/home.html <BR> <BR>Hope it helps! <BR> <BR>Mary, your plan is doable in 2 1/2 weeks; as a rough draft, what about flying into Madrid, spend three days, train (AVE; high speed from Atocha Station) on to Seville for three days, rent a car drive to Granada (overnight), then on to Malaga (home base; couple of days), drop the car at the Malaga Intl Airport, fly into Barcelona, three days, train on to Bilbao, spend some days, fly/train on to Madrid, depart from Madrid (this last part is flexible; flying out of Barcelona is a possibility). Hope this exercise helps; by the way October/early Nov is a marvelous time to go to Spain and it is approaching FAST!!

Thanks for the web sites. <BR>I think I've overdone the mountains thing. I drive a car everyday. <BR> <BR>I've driven in the mountains between New York and Montreal (hills)- The Catskills and also north of Montreal - the Laurentians. Originally from Montreal but now live just west of Ft Lauderdale, Florida. Talk about mountains, there's an ant hill on my front lawn. <BR> <BR>We've never rented a car in Europe (always gone by train) so that's a bit of a mental adjustment. The only real concern is vertical roads hanging over a cliff with nothing to stop you on the side. The travel sickness part is probably more as a result of start/stop/turn that we experienced on the Amalfi coast (ruined one of the great bus rides). <BR> <BR>I imagine if I was driving I'd opt for slow turns rather than fast approaches and sudden stops. <BR> <BR>In any event, I'll probably skip Ronda and take a ride along the coast and try Mijas and/or Casares. <BR> <BR>I've heard conflicting reports on Granada. The Alhambra is overrated. The Alhambra is spectacular. Granada is worth spending some time in (in addition to the Alhambra) just walking around. Don't waste any time there. See the Alhambra and leave. Etc, etc. Any opinions? <BR> <BR>By the way. I've been to Paris, Switzerland, Italy several times each. If that is on your list I probably can give a few opinions. <BR> <BR>I don't want to give up on this thread but I think I may need info on 'How bad is Iberia?' I read some negative things. I guess I'll go back and read them again. <BR> <BR>

I loved Granada, but I am Hispanic and learned a lot of Spain's history in school. If you are not familiar at all with Granada's history, it may not be as enjoyable. The Alhambra is spectacular, but again, understanding what you looking at and the historical context is crucial. I wouldn't walk into the Alhambra without a guide or some prior knowledge. If you walk into the Gardens of the Generalife with a basic knowledge of the Moorish beliefs about nature, their water structures construction techniques, and the connection between the two, then a visit to the gardens will leave you in awe, rather than just looking at it as water canals and some shrubs. Do you know The Alhambra is considered the palace referred to in "The Arabian Nights" ancient tales? Also spectacular is the Sultan's harem living quarters (all male servants servicing these rooms were castrated first; only other male allowed in was the Sultan himself). Tons of interesting details. Again, this is the type of thing you have to make your own mind. Same goes for Andalucia. Don't overwhelm yourself with somebody else's opinions and go and be open to your own. <BR> <BR>I also thought the Cathedral and the Royal Pantheon where King Isabella and King Ferdinand (also their oldest daughter, Juana the crazy one) are buried was very interesting. The adjacent museum was noteworthy as well. Souvenir shopping in Granada was pretty good, too.