Can anyone chime in on this itinerary? Here's the basic plan:

Paris - 5 nights
Colmar - 2 nights
Murren/Gimmelwald - 2 nights
Orvieto/Tuscany - 3 nights
Rome - 4 nights

Too many stops? We're concerned about travel time between Murren and Orvieto. We also are not sure about whether to rent a car or take trains. Rome and Paris are the most important parts of our trip. 18-ish days is what we have. Would appreciate any feedback you all might have. Thanks!

One+ day in Colmar. One+ day in Murren/Gimmelwald. Two days in Orvieto (which isn't technically in Tuscany BTW) and three days in Rome, with one additional day you can split between Orvieto and Rome. Gimmelwald to Orvieto is nearly 9 hours with 8 changes! Ugh, what a day. It's not so much that there are too many stops; it's that the transit times and logistics between stops are too much for the time you'd spend in each place.

A car doesn't help except for exploring Tuscany. If you rent a car in one country and return it in another, you incur a surcharge on top of the rental. One-way rentals within the same country can also trigger a surcharge. In most places (other than big cities and airports), it's difficult to rent and/or return a car between Saturday noon and Monday morning.

If this was my trip, I'd focus on Paris and Rome. As much as I dislike mid-trip flights and airports in general, I'd fly Paris Orly to Rome FCO. There are several easy day trips you can make from both cities.

Is there a reason for choosing to stopover in Colmar and Murren/Gimmelwald ?
if you want to see more of the country than just Paris and Rome, you could take the high speed trains and stopover in say Lyon. Continue by train to Milan and rent a car to take a leisurely drive down to Rome and explore Tuscany and Umbria on route. When I drove to Umbria from Milan it took just over 4 hours. Umbria is generally a little cheaper than Tuscany, so one option could be to base yourself in Castiglione del Lago on Lake Trasimeno for 5 nights and see some of the towns in the area (e.g. Assisi, Cortona, Gubbio, Montepulciano, Siena). You can stop in Orvieto on route to Rome.

Jean,

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, it's that trip from Gimmelwald to Orvieto that seems like too much of a time waster.

Question: When you say one+, are you pointing out that we'd effectively have only one full day plus part of a day in those cities, or are you suggesting we add one more day to those stops? My guess is that you were meaning the former.

We'd like to avoid flying mid-trip. As uktravelover suggested, we could head south following a stay in Paris and then head east to Milan and on to Tuscany and/or Umbria and then Rome. We really like the idea of Paris and Rome being big-city bookends and then having time in between to visit smaller towns. What stops between Paris and Rome make the most sense if we take that route?

Again, I really appreciate your input. Thanks!

uktravelover,

Some quick context: Our group will be 7 people including my spry parents in their mid-seventies, my brother, my wife, and our two girls, ages 12 and 14.

Regarding Colmar and Murren/Gimmelwald, my brother suggested these two stops. I think he was drawn to the German influence of the Alsace region for Colmar and the beauty of the Alps along with the quaintness of Swiss Alps villages. They're attractive to me too. The major downsides look to be that the route would take a long time between Murren and Orvieto, and that Switzerland is very expensive.

Are you suggesting Lyon and Milan as multi-day stops or just as the route to take to avoid the Colmar/Murren route? As I mentioned to Jean, we'd like to visit smaller towns in both France and Italy, so maybe we make 3 stops between Paris and Rome to break up travel and explore those smaller cities. What stops along the Paris to Lyon to Milan to Orvieto route might be worth looking into?

When my brother and I traveled to Europe in our 20s, our stays in Gimmelwald and Cesky Krumlov were among our favorite stops because of the small-town charm.

Thanks for your reply and any additional help you can provide. I appreciate your input!

Seven people spanning three generations will take longer to do everything. Meals, walking/sightseeing, pit stops... Whenever you need a taxi, you'll need 2-3. It would be nice to replicate the way you traveled with your brother in your 20s, but this trip won't/can't be like that.

You can study train timetables and routes to see what stops between Paris and Rome would be realistic and interesting to your group, but you have to decide how many days you have to do this, how many times you want to check in/out of hotels, etc. To explore Tuscany and/or Umbria with any efficiency, you'd need two cars. The driver of each car needs an International Driver's Permit, and you should learn all about ZTLs (zona traffico limitato) that exist in nearly every Italian town of any size.

https://www.bahn.com/en

https://www.trenitalia.com/en.html

https://mominitaly.com/ztl-in-italy/

Hello again. Sorry for being too cryptic. I suggested Lyon as there is a fast train from Paris. Although it is a large city, it is a good place to see. However if you prefer somewhere smaller, then you could do a slight detour by train to stay in Beaune for a couple of nights. It is really delightful. Cobbled streets, good food, Burgundy wine and the Hotel Dieu is stunning. The train journey from there to Milan is about 7 hours either via Lyon or Mulhouse. Alternatively you could take the train to Marseille or Nice and spend some time exploring the south of France. You can then pick up the train and take the coastal route to Italy.

If you choose the Milan option and still want to travel by train to Rome, then possible stopovers to look at and choose from are Parma, Bologna, Lucca, Arezzo, Cortona, Chuisi, Orvieto

The coastal route from Marseille /Nice offers very different options such as Genova, Cinque Terre, Pisa, Lucca, Arezzo, Cortona, Chuisi, Orvieto .
In either case you will probably have to route through Florence unless you take the intercity between Milan and Rome, or Genova and Rome.

Should you hire a car/ 2 cars, I suggested Castiglione del Lago for 5 nights as it is a great place to use as a hub close to the Tuscan/Umbrian border and do day or half day trips to various towns nearby such as Assisi, Cortona, Gubbio, Montepulciano, Siena without having to pack/unpack. Alternatively you can just chill. I usually stay at Residence Castiglione. It is a simple apartment hotel with a pool and parking close to the lake. They have studios, 1-2 bedroom apartments and bedrooms on their own. Breakfast is available (croissants, rolls, fruit, ham, cheese, yogurt, etc.). Rooms are cleaned on a daily basis.

Gimmelwald is a extremely hidden place, not easy to reach.
Zurich - Orvieto fo example could be done by train with only 1 change.