Pisa has other attractions besides the Tower of Pisa (which is in an area that is obnoxiously mobbed with tourists). On the other hand, to Americans, the Tower is an icon and the kind of thing you would probably regret missing on a trip nearby. Seems worth at least a day trip (easy from Florence).

My husband and I recently spent six days in Florence visiting our son who was studying there. We had both visited Italy dozens of times previously, but neither of us had been to the Tower.

We ended up doing the Lucca/Pisa day trip - rented a car, left Florence at about 12:30 pm (when our son and his friend woke up), stopped in Lucca for lunch, shopping and a cool bike ride along the city walls. Lovely town - Would happily return and rent a house near there.

Then spent an hour or so in Pisa, photogenic just before sunset and not too crowded. We returned to Florence in time for dinner. A terrific day trip...Lucca was a delight and Pisa was no more touristy than Florence. BTW, the tower is not just an icon to Americans. The other tourists at that hour were exclusively Europeans and Asians.

Here's one Tower who rather enjoyed seeing the Tower many decades ago(before it's tilt was repaired).

Pay heed to Zeppo and never again visit anyplace that has more than one tourist present...and enjoy your vacations in your backyard. By the way, the Marx Brothers were named <b>Groucho</b> , Chico, Harpo and a straight man named Zeppo. Guess which of the names better fits this thread's "removee"

No disrespect meant at all, tower. You always give excellent advice, which has been most helpful for many of my trips. But Zeppole is a woman, and I am getting really tired of the Fodor's editors removing anything that has a bit of flavor or humor to it. So many of my favorite contributors have left or been banned. Is that really what we want here?

Weadles, I can't find any humor is categorizing people as AH'es if they are tourists. zepp's and others' more esoteric information is wonderful but not at the expense of the rest of us who <i><u>do</i> </u> want to visit the popular places.

I've asked her nicely to rephrase and she hasn't. As I mentioned above, I'm the one who complained.

My apologies, TDudette. I suppose she did go too far, and as described, I probably fall into her 'AH'es as tourists' categories. But I still think she offers lots of good, solid, "off-the-beaten-track" information, and it would be a shame if she disappeared totally from the dialogue.

now of course, my "paintstripper"quip is meaningless.

tower - i liked the unrepaired tower too. BTW, the 4th Marx bro, Zeppo, was a real Marx brother who became an engineer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeppo_Marx

Weadles...I'm sure you'll agree for the most part that it's usually not WHAT Z says..but how she says it, i.e. her choice of words). Self-deprecation is an art, spiteful humor at the expense of someone not deserving it is something entirely different and quite unacceptable.

Keep on truckin' and travel 'til you unravel. That's the best any of us can do and hope for.
stu

Hey, wait a minute.

This is the first I've looked back at this thread and I see that my comment was removed.

It wasn't an attack on tourists who go to Pisa. I go to Pisa all the time to study the tower. It is one of my favorite religious structures in Italy.

My salty characterization of people who act like ------------- (supply your own flavorful word) was justified by their behavior.

There was nothing "spiteful" about my remark. It was probably removed for near obscenity. I'm surprised people have never noticed much of the behavior tourists engage in that ruins trips for other tourists. I don't agree (obviously) that it shouldn't be condemned for what it is. I also don't agree that people here who repeatedly offer really terrible and out of date advice should be indulged.

There are still travelers who don't fly on frequent flyer miles and points, who have to save from their salaries to travel, and who have a serious thoughtful purpose in coming so far from home to see great works of art.

Who are these other people to get in their way or, when they ask questions, give them instructions that is likely to end up costing them money and cheating them out of what they could have if they were given good advice?

I wish some of you who think you are so virtuous (?) would get on the case of people who are actually diminishing travel for other people. All you care about, it seems, is seeing my screen name and flailing at me.

Not that I care, but don't you care at all about these poor innocents who come to Fodor's asking quetions and never get anything but formula answers from __________s? (Use your imagination, those who have one.)

mbloggs is right in that there is more to the Piazza dei Miracoli than just the tower. If you ever have taken an Art History survey course, the last entry in Gothic art is generally the pulpit by Nicola Pisano in the Baptistry. It is considered one of the works that heralds the changes that will take place in Renaissance art. The pulpit by his son in the Duomo is equally notable. If you are interested in art, the Duomo group represent a high point.

So many people go to Pisa just to see the tower and come away with a bad impression. I was in that group on my first trip to Italy (my excuse for not seeing everything - it was hot and my kids were ready to move on).

If you just want to see the tower, though, enjoy--I do understand the need. It is so iconic.

tower,

I want to add that if you are reading my posts as attacks on tourists, you are misreading them. What I have been attacking is the sentimentality of tourism, the attitude of reveling in the destruction of places because it makes for a better tourist memory.

The tourism that says "I like my gladiator snapshot, so what's the beef?"

The tourism that can't see the tragedy that one of Europe's unarguably greatest artworks -- the Campo dei Miracoli -- suffering a cruel geological tragedy that caused an architectural wonder to sink on one side. There isn't an artist who ever breathed whose heart doesn't break to see that leaning, who can't imagine the horror of the artist who poured his art and soul into creating that work to last for all time. The artist created a miracle. The tourist sees a sentimental opportunity. A chance to memorialize his or her own ego by making the tower and its lean the point -- or worse, the joke.

At Pisa, the revelers is the worst kind of tourism are so plentiful, how can any person of sensitivity rather than sentimentality not see the obscenity and not want to use words fit to describe it?

<<<< There isn't an artist who ever breathed whose heart doesn't break to see that leaning, who can't imagine the horror of the artist who poured his art and soul into creating that work to last for all time. >>>>

Well, I spare a thought for the architect who realised, in time, that accepting the lowest bid for the construction of the Pisa tower foundations was not the best decision. Doubtless the tender evaluation docs would make interesting reading.

Ditto for the authorities in Venice, accepting the lowest bid for the supply of cement for the Campanile in the Piazza.

Ditto for the authorities in Rome who allowed the Coliseum to be treated as a quarry for a thousand years.

And it’s not known as “The Leaning Tower of Pisa” for nothing.

Looks like Griffy has decided to leave us to our bickering.

zeppole, please read my comments. This is a site for tourists. "AH" is not appropriate. Period. If you feel attacked, you are incorrect. It is your choice of words. I take full responsibility for objecting to them.

Zep, it's YOU who are constantly the uppity, know-it-all AH on all the threads here. Most of the nicest people on Fodors have seen you for what you are - an obsessed, assholic, better-than-you utter jerkaholic. We don't care at this point that you live in Italy and know better than we do because of it, because your totally know-it-all attitude and put-down practices and pernicious attitude and incendiary attitude make whatever information you might have secondary...actually irrelevant... to whatever information you might provide. You're a nutcase. Passive-aggressive, utterly humorless, with a dagger-like damnation for anyone wanting to do anything you deem even slightly "touristy." If you had your head on straight you'd realize a lot of people here want to tread the paths of many tourists behind them. They might actually get a lot out of that. You don't necessarily "find your inner Tuscan" by roaming around spa towns in lower Tuscany. Maybe you follow the trodden path and enjoy it because you're new to it. And will thrive on it! Your supposedly "superior" approach is not going to work for the vast majority of travelers, and berating travelers before they even take off on vacation is, well, kind of dumb and won't win you any awards.

Let's also add that the passive/aggressive issue is a problem. You always say that readers shouldn't listen to anything we say, but they should listen to YOU. Why would that be? Because YOU are so informed and we're not. Yuh. Go for it. You think rational people go on the internet and encounter a nutcase like you and think they can believe what's true? Hardly.

If you had any sense at all, which you obviously don't (actually, I think you think you're clever...think again, you're just nasty), instead of placing yourself as an adversary to normal, friendly, outward-seeking, Fodors-helping folks who have been to Italy and who clearly are wanting to help out others to do so, you'd back off on the insults and slams against well-meaning folks who want to help others have good trips to Italy or wherever (your recent posts on Paris are hilarious...as if you were some sort of expert there...NOT!)

There. And why aren't all Zepp's completely obnoxious posts deleted - oh, let me guess who hit the triangle.

And btw, zep, you have no freaking idea whom you have encountered in tower, and I'll leave it at that.

Can't you just zap this bitch? Loads of other websites have. Since you're busy zapping completely innocuous posts in The Lounge, why can't you just get rid of this obnoxious, lethal harridan?

Wow! Can I hit " like" . You go StCirq

Thanks, rfbk0 - happy Monday

StCirq:

Hmmmm...("lethal harridan"...gotta remember that one). Looks like you'll never be invited for dinner with Zep and family. Don't fret...she probably fills her Murano-glass fruit bowl with hand-grenades.
stu

I suppose that I’m possibly a typical tourist.

Visited the Pisa tower because it has a list to starboard, skipped the Last Supper, was amused at the saintly relics in a numerous churches, not that well informed about art (Peggy’s place in Venice did not do it for me), would have taken a gondola ride but for the cost, go searching for the odd and bizarre rather than the significant. Visited Italy the first time without barely reading a guide book or entering a gallery, was generally ill, or un-informed. Thought that the most important thing to see in the Vatican was the Sistine ceiling. Checked out Juliet’s balcony in Verona, looked for the Montague and Capulet villas (not found).

Tourists like me have existed forever. I can imaging that 11th Century pilgrims in Venice lazed around, ignored the significant sites and sights, made nuisances of themselves, got ripped off by hoteliers and tour organisers. Bitched about the lack of overhead space on ships, asked questions like “What’s to do in Venice, our next destination is the Holy Land”. And local residents would have poured scorn on them, someone would have said “Don’t miss the Temple of the Rock in Jerusalem”, while others said “Golgotha, schmolgotha, it’s just a boneyard – give it a miss”, others said “I would not go to Jerusalem if you paid me, but Jerez in Portugal is a good trip. Anyone advising Jerusalem clearly does not go there very often”.

It has always been such – so it’s not much point complaining now. However, even pilgrims would have appreciated friendly, well-meant advice - nor sarcasm.They may even have offered a prayer to St Zephyrinus (Pope, AD199 - 217)in the hope of getting such advice.

Stu, the bowl is filled with whatever the harridan feels is necessary to fuel her next volley. It doesn't matter. She's off the charts. She's nuts. You know it, I know it, all sensible people know it. Nuts. I'm halfway through your book..fabulous!