I really started something, didn't I!!

Some interesting reading has come about. It does seem that Patrick is getting his ATM funds cheaper than most. Jean(Underhill) has said that she is charged each time by BOA.

The only time I use my ATM card is every few months when I need to replenish my cash on hand..I use it to see if it works and if I remember my ID! I get about $50 and am surprised how long it lasts. I used to write a check at the grocery store etc..one day it dawned on me that I don't receive anything for that..I might as well get FF points or free gas. I like it when I get free gas...of course it startted out that I could get 1 1/2 tanks with the card..now I'm lucky if I get 1/2 tank!! So it goes!!

Something I don't understand, is why so many became so "upset" with my spending $100 - $150 for MY convenience in pre-purchasing the amount of euros that I like to carry for my trips. Would it be the same for comparing someone purchasing a $150 bottle of wine rather than a $25 bottle of wine..or paying $400 a night for a room rather than $90 for a room? Is it just as "wasteful" in the opinion of some?? It would seem so with what happened here. I think it best if all would just realize that "their way" is what is good for them, but maybe not for the next person. I think that is why I often say that this is what works for me or some use the IMHO...the website can be helpful and IMHO is where it performs best!!

Grace, with respect you are not comparing like with like. What would be a better analogy would be if you found it more convenient to book a hotel room in a way which made it cost $400 whereas you could book it in another way & get the same room for £370 (e.g. through an agency versus direct with the hotel).

(And before anyone says anything about my example, it is an *example* ! I know it doesn't always work like that, but it can do.)

gracejoan, your examples are not fitting i'm afraid. if you buy a more expensive bottle of wine or reserve a more expensive hotel room most likely you are getting something of better quality for the additional expense. people were "upset" because you are getting the exact same product (euro) but paying more for it than necessary.

Caroline, you might be correct, but I somehow think it went beyond that. Everyone has their preferred way of doing things. It can be helpful to say that you have found a good way to do something, and to pass the info on for others to use, IF they choose to do so. Not everyone is going to find the very lowest airfare or hotel price out there...I may one day check with my bank to see what their ATM charges are, but somehow, I really prefer to have that done ahead of time....just a peculiarity of mine, perhaps.......guess this has been kicked around enough by now.....a bientot....

Suze,

Sorry, but many are paying something more than others for their euros...Patrick pays nothing...Jean(Underhill) pays something each time..the USAA seems to pay nothing..I do think that is somehow connected with having been in or related to someone in the service, correct? So, everyone is paying more than Patrick..I may pay a little more than most..BUT I am also PAYING for the CONVENIENCE to have the funds in advance...Who can put the value on someone else's price for THEIR convenience? I most certainly could not!

"My attitude is if the store takes credit cards, you are paying for it in slightly higher prices. The acceptance of credit cards is a cost of business just like the cost of a business chequing account and rent and electricity so stores accepting credit cards probably have something built into the prices so that they can take them."

While that may seem logical it simply isn't always true. I ran my own store for 17 years -- an interior design business with a full showroom of furniture and accessories. I took Master Card and Visa only -- no AMEX or Discover. I can tell you that NO WAY did anyone using a credit card pay one penny more for what they bought that those who paid cash. Yes, the 1 to 3% (the rate changed periodically according to how much business I was doing with cards) was simply a cost of my doing business. Sure I made slightly less on sales done by cards than on those paid for with cash, but I never worried about it. I suppose in many cases a lot of people spent a lot more because it was going on "plastic" than if they had to pay for it, so I regarded that as a bonus that made up for my costs.

I really can't think of any businesses that charge extra for using a credit card (first of all it's supposed to be illegal to do so). If you mean that a business charges more to everyone because they take credit cards -- well that's a stretch. Who doesn't take credit cards?

xyz, I realize that this isn't what you were driving at, and I agree that more and more I've started using the credit card for smaller and smaller purchases -- but can't quite get used to charging a $1.91 coffee. But I do think it's unfair to think that the cost is built into what a store charges for things. Most of what I sold was at manufacturer's suggested retail. There was no separate price for stores that took credit cards and those that didn't.

Meanwhile, I can't believe so many people say BofA charges them for all ATM transactions. Have you ever attempted to look for the partner banks? I can't walk through London without passing a handful of Barclay's for example. I've never paid a fee in the UK as it's too easy to find a partner bank ATM.

Patrick,

BOA probably has different types of cards..I think you said that you had a particular one...or, it might go along with minimum balances etc...different perks with different ones...

Perfectly understand the use of CC and any business..it is just a cost of doing business today..you will make a lesser profit on the sales to those using cards..which are probably also the fewer customers.....

Well, I do know that ALL BofA ATM/debit cards offer free transactions at all partner banks. Period. The amount of a few one pays for using other banks may vary by their account type -- as I mentioned $1.50 for me up to and including last year to as high as $5 per transaction. But that's it. Still a far cry from some of the fees others are talking about.

Patrick..

Not too long ago, I read books that made the point I made. Now of course many prices are fixed...if you are a book store for the most part the price of books are set by the publisher although some discount....logically acceptance of cc's has to have some effect, although probably a very small one, on pricing....

You know a decade ago, several oil companies tried to pull some sort of run around the rules of the cc companies by calling their surcharges on cc's a cash discount (somehow the difference eludes me but maybe it's because I'm kind of dumb). At first they put the cc price on the pumps and used a chart to give the customer his or her cash discount..but this practice was illegal in states such as New York and they began having 2 sets of pumps for cc's and for cash and then developed pumps where the gas could be pumped from the same pump with one price for cc's and another for cash and many gas stations bought them...just about the time these oil companies (Amoco, Shell, Exxon) dropped the silly programme anyway.

From a merchant's view point, accepting credit cards is a win win situation. No more sticky fingers of having cash disappear, no more arguments with customers such as I gave you a 20, how come I only got change for a 10, no more rushing off to the bank to deposit cash or pick up change. Swipe the card through a terminal and within 5 or 6 seconds, the transaction is done...so much more efficient than cash.

I'm sorry; but I admit I do set a limit...I won't charge anything less than $1 but once a price passes $1 and the store takes plastic, out comes the credit card. After all, I can always use the mileage or the rebates for gas or whatever! The only way to do things in the 21st century if you ask me.

<Who can put the value on someone else's price for THEIR convenience? I most certainly could not!>

I agree... simply feel you chose an unfortunate example above. You are paying extra for convenience... you are not buying a superior product (like fine wine or a great hotel room) just the very same euro everyone else ends up with one way or the other.

Please post your itinerary. I may want to try my hand at pickpocketing.

suze,

All seem to pay more for the same product than Patrick, at his zero rate ...I pay more and I receive something for it...the advance receipt of funds and not having to go to the ATM machines...which TO ME, is worth the fee that I pay for it!.I seem have a hard time getting this across to you. I get the same product, euros..we all do...some pay more than others with no benefit..I pay more and I receive the benefit of advance receipt of the euros for which I am willing to pay the extra fee..it is worth it to me..and that is all that really counts....why should it matter to anyone else?

As to the pickpocket question..afraid you would be very out of luck..no pockets to pick!!

At this point I feel compelled to mis-quote Henry II: "Will no one rid us of this troublesome thread?"

Heehee. I was just wondering if I smelled a dead horse myself. ;-)

Underhill...

Did Henry II really say that? I have been through all my sources and just can't seem to locate that quote.

Jean,

I agree wholeheartedly...I said many, many posts back that I thought this had been kicked around way too much!

Now the European forum has its own ****Kimamom*****

I saw the new one...I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole!!!

"Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?" Said to have been uttered by Henry II relative to Thomas Beckett.

I thought it was "turbulent".