I am very interested in the current heated debate surrounding the production of fois gras from geese in France.

This is a question that periodically raises its head, and I have yet to hear a rational voice amongst all the emotional opinions being aired. Some time ago I therefore phoned Du Pont in Wilmington, Delaware, and spoke to the senior animal pathologist there, who would be one of the most highly trained veterinarians in the USA if not the world.

He turned out to be a no-nonsense Aussie, who fielded my question about the force-feeding of geese with the following comments, (as nearly as I can remember):

"The geese obviously don't mind being force fed, as you will notice that instead of running away from the farmer when he appears with the grain-bucket and funnel, they gather around to be fed. After all, can you imagine trying to catch each goose in a flock once a day and force a funnel into its gullet? There would certainly be an element of danger in that activity if the goose wished to resist. I expect that the goose feels like you or me after eating christmas dinner with all the trimmings and plum duff afterward. Now if you wanted to stop cruelty to animals then you should prevent people fishing with a hook and line. Don't let anyone tell you THAT doesn't hurt. You can perhaps imagine having a fish-hook lodged in your soft palate, and then pulled out."

I have no personal attachment to any particular argument in the fois gras debate, but just offer this as a factual and impartial viewpoint from a personal well-placed to know about what animals feel or suffer.

I think it's easy to justify this by imagining that all foie gras is produced on small farms where the birds live outside and clamour around the farmer when he appears with the food bucket.

However, as with many other poultry products, most mass-produced foie gras comes from intensively reared birds which are kept in minute cages and have no escape from the force feeding. Their mortality rates are high compared to other duck and geese farms.

If you do want to buy foie gras then at least opt for the stuff from small, artisanal producers who still use traditional methods and allow the animals to be raised in relative freedom.

>>prevent people fishing with a hook and line. Don't let anyone tell you THAT doesn't hurt. You can perhaps imagine having a fish-hook lodged in your soft palate, and then pulled out.
>>

I thought that fish were cold-blooded, and therefore did not feel the pain, only the discomfort.
???

"I have yet to hear a rational voice amongst all the emotional opinions..."

When i read words like yours I immediately think:

You won't listen to a truly 'rational voice' even if you hear one unless what it says jives with exactly what you believe.

That senior animal pathologist at DuPont needs to get his butt OUT of Wilmington and over to France and figure out what actually goes on.

Now, Karkila, if you want to go ahead and eat pate that's fine and I really don't think you need to call anyone else to give you permission.

Why not simply assume the envies you have. Not even a no-nonsense aussie senior pathologist is going to change my mind. If I want to eat foie gras, I buy it. If not, I don't...

Pardon my ignorance but why on earth would you call a petrochemical and plastics company and speak to their animal pathologist about foie gras?

I would assume that his position is in their R&D department, and therefore works exclusively with lab animals. Since you don't actually provide a citation including his name or actual credentials this is a guess on my part. But a lab animal veterinarian is not necessarily a "biased and impartial" source any more than a veterinary ethicist or the "emotional" people you speak of.

As a pathologist I'm sure he would have been happy to explain the physiologic and cellular changes that take place in the liver of a goose raised for foie gras, as that would be more in the realm of his expertise. But it doesn't seem like your conversation included any of that.

As a veterinarian I have a difficult time endorsing a practice that involves intentionally creating disease in an animal, which is what happens in the creation of foie gras. Regardless of whether the geese think that the disase-inducing agent is tasty or not.

I too share some puzzlement about why one would call DuPont, but hey, I love foie gras. And frankly, I don't really care about the goose. I'm willing to accept the viewpoint that using animal products is wrong, heck, I might even admire it, but I'm not going to get into the business of determining which method of raising animals for slaughter is morally justified. I mean, even a free range, organic bird is still being raised and ultimately killed to feed me. It doesn't do much to absolve me of any sort of moral judgement to say "it was raised humanely."

Author: karkila
Date: 12/17/2007, 05:12 am
I have no personal attachment to any particular argument

Your first and only post on a travel board is to complain about another food?

Last night I distinctly heard the lettuce in my salad scream every time I took a bite. It was very disconcerting, but I ate it anyway.

Hey NP,

I though that lettuce was cold blooded and didn't feel the pain.

I think only "iceberg" lettuce is cold blooded.

Travelgourmet said - I too share some puzzlement about why one would call DuPont, but hey, I love foie gras. And frankly, I don't really care about the goose. I'm willing to accept the viewpoint that using animal products is wrong, heck, I might even admire it, but I'm not going to get into the business of determining which method of raising animals for slaughter is morally justified. I mean, even a free range, organic bird is still being raised and ultimately killed to feed me. It doesn't do much to absolve me of any sort of moral judgement to say "it was raised humanely."

Too funny. Funny...because it's true.

Where did I recently see that thing about how unfair it is to raise free range chickens? Other chickens are willing to die after being cooped up 12 deep in their own excrement. But farmers give free range a feeling of freedom and hope, then whack -- their heads come off just like the others.

"Other chickens are willing to die after being cooped up 12 deep in their own excrement. "
And you're willing to eat them???

Uh Patrick, I think I will skip eating chicken in the future. But thanks for the info. amp;
Ignorance WAS bliss!

A few years ago the British chef John Burton-Race made a series of programmes on his family living in France for a year. One programme showed a goose being raised for foie gras being fed in exactly the vet described and the goose seemed quite happy ! But I know some farms are supposed to be more mechanised so good pointer, hanl, about trying to buy from small artisanal producers - but how to tell the difference ?

"how to tell the difference?"

Good question. I don't eat foie gras but my husband loves it, so when he buys it for himself as a treat he gets it from a little stall at our local market here in Brussels, that gets it from a small-scale producer in France.
He also stocked up on it when we were in the south west this summer - just went to a small farm and bought it directly from the family.

I suppose the logical thing would be to avoid the big name brands which are mass produced and distributed. It's pretty obvious which these are in France (those with huge displays/many products in the supermarkets). Not so sure about the UK or elsewhere in the world. I suppose it's a question of doing a bit of research, perhaps finding a small, specialist deli or asking a French restaurant who their supplier is...

More good advice, hanl, thanks.

I saw a documentary that showed force-feeding of geese and thought it looked very unpleasant. I do eat meat, and will continue to do so, but don't see why animals shouldn't be treated humanely as possible while alive. I always try to buy free range.

I don't particularly like the concept of fishing as a sport, but if fish is being caught for food then line fishing can sometimes be preferable to trawler type fishing (where stocks of some species can be rapidly depleted, and where all sorts of unwanted/uneatable creatures, or protected specieis can get trapped in the nets).

Eating free range animals is more humane, regardless of what self-serving rationales people come up with.

And if kindness isn't a motivating factor, consider the antibiotics that factory farmed chickens and pigs have mixed in with their foods. The close quarters, the filth, the pecking of each other until bloody for lack of space would kill off a naturally fed animal too quickly. So if ingesting antibiotics with your poulet doesn't bother you, keep eating the factory farmed crap.