AJPeabody

IBobi:

Suggestions:

Make sure all the old threads and posts are kept and easily available, for reference and for taking further posts to any of the old threads.

Be sure we keep "Click my name to see ..."

And it would be really great if we could customize the interface for our own ideas of readability (font size, colors).

I hope we will still have the function of seeing a list of threads we have posted to that have a new post.

May the Force be with you.

NewbE

AJ, look at the link iBobi posted and accept that those features, no more and no less, will be what you will get, full stop. It's absurd to think this paltry board will get customized features when iBobi is boasting about FlyerTalk's numbers.

CounterClifton

Since you asked:

VB is fine, but frankly, it's been around since the 90s with various tweaks and since it's sold on the open market, it looks kind of amateurish (IMO). Like someone's hobby site, because lots of hobby sites use it. It's easy, and thus a good product in that way. I've used it myself on a hobby site.

But it's starting to look a little old-fashioned compared with the social media sites people are becoming accustomed to because really, it's 20 year old tech. In the niche world that might have a bit of a retro cool factor, I don't know. Slow travel and mileage geeking are sub-niches. VB also has a great search function. However, this one isn't really a "drill down and get your facts" kind of regular audience. Not your regulars who are making that content that really draws members who stay.

I think part of the reason Flyertalk draws the way it does is that, unlike Fodors, it really has no competition for the content your users are swapping/providing. But that's not due to the format, it's that you can't get better data somewhere else. I say that as one of those 600,000 FT members and occasional, maybe quarter annual hit. Tons of VB sites have no users. The other two major general travel forums don't use VB. But it's your software and there was never a doubt you were going to use it. Only makes sense, business-wise.

Just don't fall into the trap of believing the tools build the customer base. I've installed a few V Bulletins, going back to the previous owners of the software. Maybe the forum attracts a following, maybe it doesn't. Depends on how driven people are to get something out of it. "Travel" is a subject about 10000 times wider and half as deep as "How to accumulate and make the best use of your mileage points"

My thoughts are, if you must transition, first... figure out how to emulate tagging. Then, keep it simple... based on 18 years of regular use on this site and 25+ in IT. Simple and laterally flowing data visible without constantly returning to a structure have been what made this site attractive and built the community of users, rather than its exclusivity of information. It works because information presents itself to you along side whatever you're looking at, rather than you having to keep go looking for it. It's been like that since the site was in frames in 1998.

Since VB is the prescribed future, at a bare minimum, I'd create a survey asking what features people did and didn't want. And I'd still take the answers with a grain of salt. After all those years in IT and for a software company before that, I find the impulse is to crank the features up to full blast and impress the heck out of them. IT people adore features. End users think they do and then get lost wading through them. In reality, you often just end up p*ing them off. Suggestions would include, lose all the stuff under the user names about their life history, lose all the little icons, keep number of replies but get rid of number of views (who cares?). Disable sig lines, maybe avatars at first. The vanity stuff People have been wanting pic posting ability for ages though. Maybe sell that. Then bring features in a little at a time instead of gob smacking them with it.

That's just one very long opinion though. People used to VB will probably want the works. Too bad a user can't tailor what they want to see and what they don't!

Again, lots of luck and I'll enjoy the site until the big changeover.

CounterClifton

<i>CounterClifton, you sound like the fabulous Clifton from way back when.</i>


Ha! I *am* the fabulous Clifton from way back when, NYCFS.

I took a break for awhile as I moved to Australia and to focus on starting my company. A bit of forced austerity. And then just took up the longer moniker when I came back. I tend to be more a traveller around Asia these days, which I love dearly.

Great to see you again!

NewbE

<Just don't fall into the trap of believing the tools build the customer base.>
Good point, but looks like it's too late, lol.

VB looks cheap and old and is a PITA to navigate. A Jobsian attention to design would be nice, but I'd settle for something that doesn't like digital barf.

CounterClifton

<i>but I'd settle for something that doesn't like digital barf.</i>

I've long admired the ability to be both accurate and concise, a quality combination I unfortunately do not share.

elberko

I agree with Counterclifton's description of what makes the current Fodor's appealing, and that it will be lost with the move to VB.

I'm not adverse to change, generally speaking, but I don't see this change as a good thing. There's a reason I don't bother going to other travel sites any more, and this change will make Fodors more like them.

Macross

I have been using Flyer talk for years and it is ok.

CounterClifton

Flyertalk works because it's mostly very specific Q&A if it's not off in a generic chat area.


What I'm trying to figure out is, how to cleanly... without trying to make a square peg fit in a round hole... do you post and find a topic like this one:

<i>Destination from London by train, advice please
by Esperanza77 | 12 responses;
most recent on Nov 29, 16 at 5:58am
Tagged: Belgium, France, United Kingdom</i>

Do you put it in one of those three countries? All three? Or will it be off in one of those multitude of nondescript "other" categories like "Travel Tips" or "Where to Go" that very few people look at? Do we each drill down into every sub category until we discover there is a thread asking for some creative thinking we as individuals might offer?

That, IMO, was the biggest problem with tying to make VB fit a generalist sort of conversation. The relative invisibility of activity at a higher level. Which presumes then you know where you're going and why. I see the same problem with the Slow Travel site, where they seem to have eventually lumped most of Europe under one branch and no one has posted on it since mid-October. Those are the kind of sites all over the internet that used to be something... but now you don't bother asking questions, because at best it's always one or two leftover internet hermits sort of camped out there answering every single thing.

I'm not change oriented either, but I do try to gauge suitability between the tool and the job and am not enthusiastic when they don't match.

ibobi

Some answers:

No policy changes are planned; but new tech may allow for improvements, so if the lounge is closed due to an issue that could not be surmounted due to the software, we could explore opening it to those who meet certain posting/tenure minimums...

Yes, posting photos -- and video -- will happen as soon as we upgrade to VB.

All existing threads and posts will be preserved and SEARCHABLE.

"Click my name..." functionality will not only stay, it will be enhanced.

Threads you have posted to can be autosubscribed to (a user setting you can change), so you can see them all in your subscriptions page.

Macross

The lounge should be the last thing you worry about.

janisj

"if the lounge is closed due to an issue that could not be surmounted due to the software, we could explore opening it"

AFAIK it was not closed due to any software limitations. Was a Random House decision based on 1) not counting towards 'view count' or something like that (obviously I'm not the techy that CounterClifton is ) and 2) some of the discussions there can become quite incendiary and they didn't want it in a public forum attached to their brand.

All those topics used to land on the general travel forums and the Lounge was created to get them into one place. Originally it was open to everyone then eventually it was closed.

thursdaysd

The Lounge was not closed because of software issues! (Ask the Fodors people about why.)

Like CC, I believe that the format is why Fodors has lasted. And the key parts of that format are:

The main page for each board with new posts and TRs in the middle and current threads on the left.

The current listings to the left of the text of the thread you are currently reading.

Profiles with links to active threads and easy access to your TRs (sounds like you may be able to preserve the former?)

IF you can maintain those I might come to overlook the horrid appearance of the Flyertalk site. (CC is right, it looks like a holdover from the 90s.)

TexasAggie

I've been hit or miss the past six years with participation (our oldest child was born in 2010 and has some special needs), but greatly value this forum. I'd hate to lose contact with the many users I've known for more than a dozen years. Very much hope a way is found to keep the forum user-friendly for the core group of users who have so generously contributed their knowledge and expertise for years upon years. They are what make the Fodors forums such a valuable resource for so many.

NYCFoodSnob

<i><font color=#555555>"I see the same problem with the Slow Travel site, where they seem to have eventually lumped most of Europe under one branch and no one has posted on it since mid-October. Those are the kind of sites all over the internet that used to be something... but now you don't bother asking questions, because at best it's always one or two leftover internet hermits sort of camped out there answering every single thing."</font></i>

I don't think I could have said this better. Never liked the vBulletin UI of SlowTrav. Not a sign of creative design thinking anywhere. Whoever the leadership was there (I think her name was Pauline), she lost sight on how to lead with vision, and sold the tired enterprise to Internet Brands in 2007. And look at the place today. Absolute cobweb-ridden dullsville. It always reminded me of a retirement home in Florida. 90% of the information on that site is over ten years old. Out of date, useless, and a waste of precious research time.

NewbE

IMO, the degree to which IB will be willing to customize the Fodors Forums on their platform will be in direct proportion to the monetary value of the Fodors Forums to IB.

WoinParis

Snob be prepared to get deletions on trip advisor.
I often don't like your attitude but I like less TA where mods have no idea of customer service.
Which got me expelled when I said their software sucked. Privately off the forum etc. you have at least as big a mouth as myself so be warned.
say what you want about fodors their mods are - up to now - quite great.
On TA it suffices to have 4 people report your post and you are deleted. They call it self moderation.
You'll discover it soon enough.
Have fun there - for me TA is one of the worst - they simply don't care about their forums what they are after are reviews.
True ones or not.

burta

Call me sentimental. I have enjoyed this site and the helpful comments here, even when I don't post -- I've been the consumate lurker, sucking up information and enjoying the unique personalities on this forum. I sure would hate to see it go. I should be more open-minded, but if flyertalk is anything like cruise critic, which I use from time to time, I may pass on it. I find cruise critic very cumbersome to use, with posters not nearly as traveled or astute as the posters here. What to do?

hetismij2

The members will hopefully remain the same burta, so the advice will be as helpful or not as it has ever been. Only the format will change, and once you get used to it I hope it will be an improvement, though it does depend somewhat on how the forum is designed and divided.
People hate change, no matter what. I remember how much peope complained about earlier changes to this forum, bu we all got used to it.
Let's give the new owners, and the new format a chance before slagging them off shall we?

AJPeabody

Let one thread be accessed through more than one top level board: For example, the same thread could be in "Europe" or "France" or "Italy" or "Transportation" if it is a question about getting from Paris to Venice. Similarly, for United States and the various states, etc.

Have a top level "Newly Posted."

And get some stylist to update the graphics from the antique character-based original ugliness.