bilboburgler

Take the kids but plan the holiday to include them, then when you are old and you want to be included you can remind them (we took you..)

BigRuss

If the oldies are relatively hale and can chase the hobbit around, leaving him(?) with the grandparents is fine. But there's likely no chance your wife will agree to ditch junior for 3 weeks. And there's also no possibility your original itinerary or something similar could be done with a toddler in tow and not completely suck.

We missed our first one a LOT when we took a full-sized trip without him and that was about 1/2 your trip length. There was also no way we could have taken the trip with him (he was then 9 mos; we planned a 3-base, 10-night run through Japan).

Just some more to chew on . . .

PalenQ

a Chacun son gout - as an archaic French saying says - 'to each his/her own taste' - apply it to taking kids or not - some would always do it and others would saddle someone else with their kids while they vacation.

Neerav

Interesting views here....but yes finally ..to each his/her own taste...

To generally give you guys an idea...a mother leaving a 6 month old kid to work for a full day without any flexibility is generally frowned upon from where I come from..but times have changed and we have to do what we have to do...

sfmaster, I absolutely want to travel with my kids and show them the world myself....and show them the sides of me they have never seen...but not like this...atleast in my case...he is too young...to even know what a gelato is...maybe he will enjoy..maybe he will hate it....or maybe he is so tired that he just wants to get to the room and sleep.

It is for these reasons, me and my wife have now decided to make this trip without him...yes..leave him with his grandparents...we have helpers there to do the daily chores...and my sister too is ready to help..

basically, I am taking a long break of 2 months after 10 yrs of work life....and want to include this europe tour in this....am going to do another 3 week India Road trip without my wife after the europe tour...so will my kid enjoy with in this europe trip..maybe not and then even I will not...Right now I am very very excited with the prospect of seeing all the wonderful places....if I am not able to see those or enjoy those..because I am having to lug a stroller around, lots of luggage, kids naps time...etc...then I would be grumpy...and I say that because I know myself...I maybe smiley outside..but will be grumpy inside...

so yes...this time..we will not be taking him...but my son is only 2 and surely...as long as I am earning and healthy...he will see and travel lots of places...with me...

Neerav

so here I am ...started this post with saying whether the itinerary is okay for travel with a 2yr old..and now..its just me and my wife...

Since Rome is at the south most ...its difficult to get to Rome from anywhere in Europe via train...so its better I start my trip from Rome and go upwards..


breaking down into nights, its this :
4 nights Rome,
2 nights Florence
2 nights Venice
3 nights Lucerne
3 nights Interlaken or Wengen/Muerren
4 nights Paris
4 nights London.

Now, the time when I am travelling is also Oktoberfest...is it a good time to visit Munich? If I had to do Munich in the above itinerary..how do I do it? What should I strike or reduce? Also whats the better sequence to do

1) Venice-Munich-Swiss-Paris

2) Venice-Swiss-Munich-Paris

this option seems better because, this way I can enter Swiss from zurich which is a direct 4 hr train from Munich and Leave from Geneva to Paris. I havent figured out Venice to Munich.

any thoughts...

Neerav

Also can somebody suggest..which part of the above trip is doable, scenic by bus...

rekhanarsinghpura

hi.saw your itirnary yow have covered all major attraction.recently i covered italy and switzerland .starting from rome is perfect idea but you you really dont need 4 nights in rome. one day for sightseeing and 1 day for vatican is enough.for florence you need 2 days and for pisa you can cover in 6 hr from florence and back to florence so dont skip it.head to venice and 2 days is enough for if you interested in glass factory and lace factory then head for murano ,burano otherwise long drive in water way is more appealing to eyes.trains in italy are very good and you really get good guidence at tourist information.

rekhanarsinghpura

dont remove florence from your itinary its doable and really beautiful I stayed there for many days and did all my trip from there only via early morning trains.
For switzerland jungfraouch interlaken you can do leave lucerne early morning put your bags at station finish the mount and head for geneva. from lucern to montreax you can do via golden pass which is scenic train.Keep 5 days for switzerland.
In paris louvere is not in you itinary a must see museum.

amy_torres_sd

Bravo Neerav and wife! I'm so glad she is comfortable with leaving your son with the grandparents, I think you will have more time to enjoy your first trip to Europe.

PalenQ

http://www.goldenpass.ch/?Language=EN

Golden Pass train rekhanarsinghpura recommends and so do I!

If you have a Swiss Pass it is fully valid on the GP though on some portions to sit in panoramic cars reservations are required - check out the VIP seats! Unique very unique - lets you simulate driving the train.

Neerav

Thanks Rekha and PalenQ.

I have made 2 itineraries considering we have to now make our trip via Mumbai.

In option 2, I have kept Munich for a day, as I wish to experience OktoberFest.

As per me Option 1 is certainly doable, but Option 2 too can be done...but rushed for Rome & Munich

Please suggest.

Option 1:
Day1-Arrive Early in Rome,Night in Rome
Day2-Night in Rome
Day3-Night in Rome
Day4-Night in Rome
Day5-Arrive Early in Florence,Night in Florence
Day6-Night in Florence
Day7-Arrive Early in Venice,Night in Venice
Day8-Checkout from Hotel around noon, Train to Lucerne at 16:00 hrs via Milan and Arth Goldau, Night in Lucerne
Day9-Night in Lucerne
Day10-Night in Lucerne
Day11-Night in Lucerne
Day12-Night in Lauterbrunnen
Day13-Night in Lauterbrunnen
Day14-Lauterbrunnen-Montreux-Geneva-Paris (night in Paris)
Day15-Night in Paris
Day16-Night in Paris
Day17-Night in Paris
Day18-Night in Paris
Day19-Early Train to London, Night in London
Day20-Night in London
Day21-Night in London
Day22-Night in London
Day23-Early morning flight London - Mumbai

OR

Option2:
Day1-Arrive Early in Rome,Night in Rome
Day2-Night in Rome
Day3-Night in Rome
Day4-Arrive Early in Florence,Night in Florence
Day5-Night in Florence
Day6-Arrive Early in Venice,Night in Venice
Day7-Checkout from Hotel around noon, Train to Munich at 20:57 hrs Night in Train
Day8-Night in Munich
Day9-Local sightseeing in Munich and Leave for Lucerne in evening,Night in Lucerne
Day10-Night in Lucerne
Day11-Night in Lucerne
Day12-Night in Lucerne
Day13-Morning Train to Interlaken,Night in Interlaken
Day14-Night in Interlaken
Day15-Morning Train Interlaken-Paris, Night in Paris
Day16-Night in Paris
Day17-Night in Paris
Day18-Night in Paris
Day19-Early Train to London, Night in London
Day20-Night in London
Day21-Night in London
Day22-Night in London
Day23-Early morning flight London - Mumbai

Neerav

In option 2 I would miss golden pass, not see geneva and have 3.5 days in Paris instead of full 4.

BigRuss

Just FYI, look into the discounts available in the major cities. Paris has some for its innumerable museums. There is a London Pass available for London that is A COMPLETE WASTE OF MONEY because at least 10 top museums in London (both national galleries, both tates, Imperial War Museum, Brit Museum, Brit Library, V&A, Greenwich Maritime, and that's off top of my head; there are more) have no admission fee. There are also the 2for1 deals in London that are VERY USEFUL (lots of information on Fodors about this) and will save you serious $ on the Tower, Cabinet War Rooms and potentially St Paul's.

rekhanarsinghpura

itinary 2 only one suggestion with since you are escaping geneva swiss saver pass you can cover half of the distance with golden line.Then geneva to paris .still I feel 3 night in rome you dont need if your 1 day is fully utilised as uou are arriving early in rome.

PalenQ

Just FYI, look into the discounts available in the major cities. Paris has some for its innumerable museums.>

The Paris Museum Pass is not a discount pass but is rather like a railpass - gives you unlimited entries to many major sights - well worth it if going to 3 major museums and you can also often skip long ticket lines with priority entrance for pass holders.

http://en.parismuseumpass.com/

Neerav

Thanks guys for the replies..will keep the paris pass in mind!

I am going to go with option 1...reason is...I didnt find compelling reasons just to visit Munich for just Oktoberfest..so fixed my own error..!

As far as the option 1 goes...

Few questions
1) am I right in sacrificing a night in venice for a relaxed first day in Switzerland. I am looking at Switzerland from a getaway and relaxing perspective, but there is lot to do there too!
2) In Switzerland I have divided my trip in
3 nights Lucerne
2 nights Lauterbrunnen
1 night montreux
then from montreux-geneva-paris by train.

Would it be better if I spent,

3 nights in Lucerne
3 nights in Lauterbrunnen
Leave lauterbrunnen early morning after the 3rd night
for Montreux via the Golden Pass. Park the bags in Montreux station, roam around 3-4 hours. Take train to Geneva - roam around 2-3 hours and then catch the evening 6 pm train to Paris?

Is it all doable in 1 day?

or

do the golden pass from Lucern to Interlaken
and when departing from Lauterbrunnen, go to montreux faster way with a stopover at Spiez for a few hours?

3) Where to stay - Lauterbrunnen or Wengen?

rekhanarsinghpura

if you plan for montreux then you can include lausagne for 3 hrs .this city is typically on hill ,little different and you get nice view of lake geneva.roam around in geneva for 2-3hrs.

PalenQ

3 nights Lucerne
2 nights Lauterbrunnen>

yes I would either reverse this or add a 3rd day to Lauterbrunnen as you do in the next scenario.

Neerav

As per above, my days in Switzerland are from 20th to 26th Sep.

From Lucerne I wish to see Pilatus/Titlis - and 3 nights in Lauterbrunnen, is this a good time to be in BO?

Would I be better off by starting my trip in Switzerland a week earlier?

rajshiv

Lauterbrunnen is a great area to base yourself. It is easy to get to places from there and is beautiful. We found the BO area more stunning than the Lucerne area...if if I were you I would spend 3nights in Bo and 2 in Lucerne.Weather wise you might be better off going to Switzerland in the early part of September.

There are these free city tours- Sandeman's walking tours in Paris/ London and Rome. I haven't done the one in Rome, however have done others in other cities. The one is Paris was absolutely great and if you do it the first day it gives you a good perspective of the city.

Another suggestion for Rome- if you plan to visit the Forum area I would strongly recommend getting a guide or a tour. It gives you an absolutely different perspective and makes you appreciate things that you might miss. I know several people on the board have read and done self guided tours. We too tried doing it on our first visit to Rome and couldn't figure out much and finally gave up. However this time we hired a private guide and she was absolutely fabulous. She was such a wealth of information and so passionate about Roman history and architecture that we felt like we had been taken back a few centuries. She even discussed some of the more socio political and engineering marvels of the Roman period as my dad had particular interest in that.

The Roma pass is an absolute must if you plan to go to the Borghese Museum and forum etc. It is a really good deal.

Given how thoroughly you have researched your trip I am sure you have already read quite a lot about the places you are visiting.

There are some excellent books and movies on places that you are visiting and it would be great if you read/ watch a few of them. We tend to do this for most of our trip and enhances our experience greatly.

Weather in September in all these places can be quite unpredictable except for maybe Rome. It can wary between quite cold and pleasantly cold. So be prepared for that.