StuDudley

I'm not a fan of the London & Paris only recommendations. That's to much "big city". Like the OP suggested - countryside breaks up the pace a bit, and makes travel less hectic. If they want 2 locations - Paris & Provence would work best, IMO.

We've spent around 20 weeks in Paris staying in apartments. Usually for 2-3 weeks at a time. Our itinerary for our first few multi-week trips included day trips outside of Paris. When we eventually arrived in Paris and spent several days there, we had no desire to take a day trip elsewhere. Too much time wasted on travel and transportation issues. The only exception was when we visited Versailles. We went there on a Saturday to view the fountains, and then again on a week-day to tour the chateau.

Stu Dudley

tomboy

FWIW, my perspective:
With only 2 weeks, I'd skip London. London has its attractions, but it is: 1) English-speaking, so not that different than the US; if you want a DIFFERENT experience, go France 2) a big city; as such, seems a little "cold"/"civilized"/ can't quite put the right label on it
Paris is a big city also, but it has charm and beauty that London didn't have, for me at least. And it's famous, and a first-timer should experience it.
Provence (assuming you also include SW France (midi-pyrenees, Lot, etc in that term) is a delight. Where else can you see Roman ruins, pre-historic cave drawings, world-class vineyards, exquisite dining, art locales, all in one day's drive? Northern France has, to me, a tone of modernity to it, while southern France has a more laid-back feel to it....more of a life-is-meant-to-be-lived feel to it.

Hope you and the family enjoy your trip as much as we did our 5 visits.

Neecy

I didn't take it as discouragement against Rick Steves books. I was just curious why some don't people care for them. I do need to use other resources, but his are so readable, its been a great starting point. You'd be surprised how few people in my world have even traveled outside of North america. I'd probably not have had the confidence to take this trip if it weren't for Rick's videos. I've watched so many that I l occasionally hear him narrating his books in my head as I read, lol! Not even joking.

I feel like if it was just DH and I, i would throw out London at this point for more time in France. But with my girls, well, it's so iconic with the the major recognizable tourist spots, they'd probably get more out of it than a few extra days in Provence, so if I'm ever going to visit, it should be now, with them. Its on all our lists.

Is there anywhere that's closer to Paris than Provence that I should consider for a couple of days for a break between the cities? I think I want more than a day trip. In my mind, Im afraid if we dont get away for a couple days at least, we're going to just hole up in our hotel room staring at our phones for a break. I wondered about Loire valley, but not sure if it's honestly a bit boring (no offense intended) for hubby and teens. Do you have opinions on Loire or other possible side trips? Something shorter and closer than Provence?

Seamus

Here's another thought - although Paris is a major world city, the ambience is much more relaxed than you might think, nothing like NYC or Chicago. In many ways it is a collection of arrondissements, each with its own charm and character. And it's easy to get around Paris on public transport or even walking. .

mjs

I probably have more than 100 travel guides for all over the world. It’s a guesstimate as I am currently in Tokyo. I find that each guide book series have their strengths and weakness. I have a lot of Michelin guides as they are really good about information about things like history and which places to prioritize. . Do not use them for hotels. Occasionally for restaurants. Guides to different countries and or cities are sometimes better with different guide book series. Lonely planet Crete and Maldives come to mind. Rick Steves I find somewhat simple but great for information about nitty gritty stuff like how to get to and from the airport, how to use the telephone etc. I do think RS probably does a better job for novice travelers than anyone else. My daughter did much of the research for our current Japan trip and she used a lot of stuff from Twitter to plan our trip. A different generation.
In terms of the French countryside, understand the Avignon is about 2:45 minutes by TGV from Paris. Most other destinations in France that are not cities that I would consider for a few days would not be that much closer time wise. Also remember that moving from place to place not in the same city probably costs you at least a half a day.

shelemm

It is much more helpful to think about how many nights you will spend in a place, rather than days. It lets us know how many full days you have.

I think four nights in Provence is a great idea. I always recommend a stretch in the countryside as a break from cities. The Glory of Europe is in the villages.

Since you are thinking of renting a car, of course there are many other places to go in France from Paris. There are amazing things to see in every direction. Toward Normandy there are the ruins at Jumieges, the cliffs at Etretat, the wooden architecure of the port of Honfleur. I prefer the Marais Poitevin to the Loire Valley. The MP is a bay that was canalised by monks in the 14th century and is called The Green Venice. You could try your hand at paddling a barque, traditionally done standing up like gondola. Lots of sites nearby, and the chateaux of the Loire are on the way.

Brittany, Alsace, Auvergne, they are all worthwhile destinations.

Sassafrass

Seamus wrote pretty much what I was going to say, so just to reinforce it.
Like any place with a lot of people, European cities are busy, but the city centers are so different than American cities, they seem more humane and I don’t think you will feel the need to retreat. First, they were built long before skyscrapers and high rise apartments, so you don’t feel you are walking in the shadows and walls of concrete and glass. They are so much older and were designed for people to walk and to live in neighborhoods with avenues and parks everywhere. Even away from the centers feels more like villages that are now connected. Yes, there are high rises and areas of modern apartment blocks surrounding the city centers, but the centers have remained, full of ancient, beautiful, treasured architecture. I truly do not think four days in each place will be so city-centric that you would want to leave.
European cities will spoil you.

IMHO, you are right to take the girls to London and Paris. I would definitely not put anything in between. It is just not logistically logical.

In London:
Hampton Court Palace, plan for a lot of time there.
Take a canal Boat ride on Regents Canal from Little Venice to Camden, really lovely and very interesting to see the house boats.
get tickets to some plays and concerts. These do not have to be the big name, expensive shows. Once there, you can look at what’s playing and pick up tickets. We have seen some wonderful plays on the cheap.

In Paris.
Many people say no, but I highly recommend you take a day for Versailles. Don’t just visit the chateau. Walk the grounds and visit the town. It has a gorgeous market and the town has a lot of restaurants, a great place for lunch or dinner after visiting Versailles.
Don’t think you need to walk the Champs Elysees.

If you must go to Provence, OK. Do it last. Plan your time there very carefully because it is easy to spend a good bit of time getting from place to place and you want to maximize sight seeing time there.

KTtravel

My husband and I really enjoyed Sarlat, and the area nearby, when we visited in early June a few years ago. It is in the beautiful Dordogne area which is a bit closer to Paris than Provence. We enjoyed a day of kayaking on the river, stopping to visit small towns (get an early start.) Seeing the nearby cave paintings was really interesting. We had delicious meals and enjoyed strolling the charming town. I understand the outdoor market is fun to browse but we missed that.

We really enjoyed Provence, as well, but preferred Sarlat and the Dordogne.

mjs

It takes a lot more time to get to Sarlat from Paris than to go to Avignon

StuDudley

""Sarlat, and the area nearby, when we visited in early June a few years ago. It is in the beautiful Dordogne area which is a bit closer to Paris than Provence.""

No way!!!

Avignon/Provence us 2 hrs 40 mins from Paris by TGV.

Consider this:
Depart LHR at 8:40 am and arrive in Marseille at 11:35, or
Depart Gatwick at 1:35PM & arrive in Marseille at 4:30

Pick up a car & drive 30 mins to Aix en Provence to start your Provence experience there

Take one if the may 2 hr 40 min TGVs from the Avignon TGV station and arrive at Gare de Lyon in Paris
Have a meal at the Train Bleu restaurant at the Gare
https://www.le-train-bleu.com/en/

Stu Dudley

mjs

I would pick up a car at MRS and drive to St Remy in about an hour and base yourselves there as it is more central to most things you would want to visit in the area. I like Aix but is a-bit remote from places you would want to visit. Alternatively you could fly into Paris, do Paris than TGV to Provence, than fly MRS to LON and fly home from LHR.

Tornike91

biliki.ai this AI trip planner will help you to plan the trip

StuDudley

I agree 100%. I just mentioned Aix to indicate how close the Marseille airport is to Provence.

Stu Dudley

tomboy

About 15 years ago, on our 2nd trip to France, we did a "circle tour".
A couple days in Paris, then drove to Honfluer, took in the Normandy beachhead and Mont St Michel
then 2 nights in the Loire (opinion: chateaux become indistinguishable from one another in one's memory after you've seen 2)
then 2 nights in the Bordeaux region (because my dad was there in WW1),
then drove to the Sarlat area (many delights here, including the pre-historic cave drawings at Pech Merle and Lascaux) for 4 nights, then drove to Carcassone on the way to "Provence"

Poster: define what YOU mean by Provence. Some folks think it means only the are within 100 miles of Italy. Other folks deem it to include as far north as Vaison la Romaine, the Vaucluse, as far west as Clermont-Ferrand.

after Sarlat area, we drove to Nimes for 2 nights, (Arles, Orange, Uzes and their Roman ruins), then headed north thru Burgundy for a few days, then the last night at CDG

Lots more travelling and packing than many on this forum would do, but it DID give us a good sampling of what the various regions were like.

As I recall, it was either 2 weeks or about 19 days/

Fleur_de_Lis

If you end up just doing Paris and London, you could consider doing a day trip to Giverny to see Monet's garden - it's beautiful, and the town of Giverny is really cute (and not a city).

Agree with what everyone's said about not needing breaks from Paris since it's not like an American city - there are small parks and gardens around every corner, which are great for stopping and literally smelling the roses (or just lounging, people watching, getting some reading time in - just lovely.) And in some of the bigger parks, you actually can feel like you're not in a city at all - Parc des Buttes Chaumont being one example, but there are many others!

That being said, I'd do Paris and Provence, but I'm biased because I love France (and both of those regions) and have never been to London.

If you do end up doing Paris + London + somewhere else that's not Provence and is closer to Paris, think about Sancerre. It's a lovely little village town on top of a hill, close to some chateaux and many beautiful vineyards with lots of walking paths through them that are so fun to explore, as well as working farms you can visit (like a goat farm, complete with cheese samples afterwards!) It's very slow paced but still charming and interesting.

StuDudley

Are you sure Sancerre is closer to Paris than Avignon? Sancerre does not have a train station, so how do you get there from Paris easily & quickly (less than 3 hours). We did an overnight in Sancerre from the Chablis region last year and it is a delightful town - but there is not nearly as much stuff to do & see around Sancerre as there is in Provence.

I define "Provence" as the Bouches du Rhone and Vaucluse departments, and a bit of the Gard department that includes Uzes & the Pont du Gard.

Stu Dudley

Neecy

Oh my, the comments and opinions are sooo helpful. I've read through them repeatedly. It really helps me process my own decisions. You all are a great help to fellow travelers!!!

To be clear, we are spending 15 nights total. So 5 nights in each of London, Provence, Paris, and roughly 4.5 days in each place after travel. I originally doubted the plan because I was afraid that by day 4 or so, we'd be so tired that we'd wished we were just staying a full week each in London and Paris each to slow the pace. Like maybe have an apartment in each city and allow for a few chill out days when when we need them. The flexibility of that option is what appealed to me.

Thanks for explaining the Paris vibe. Yes, I was thinking of it more like 2 weeks in Chicago and NYC.

But I think I'm settling in on London-province-paris. Basically, I'd really regret not seeing some Provence . I think I need to figure out my Provence itinerary to really come to peace with a decision. Because, with everything I want to see there, I want to make sure its not frantic road trip with lots of driving to squeeze in as much as possible. If I can put my mind around a 4.5 day plan with some flexibility built in, i think that would help. I'm sorry to be all over the place here, it's just how my brain has to process. I was afraid to spend too much time on planning Provence if I was going to throw it out.

So I have a ton more research to do, with more guidebooks on the way. But I'm ready for your advice. Let me know if I need to make another post since I'm kind of changing topics here.

Several people have suggested to go London-paris-provence to cut down on travel time. But I think I'd rather sacrifice the travel time and switch it up than do the cities back to back.

I'm thinking LHR to Marsaille, arrive 11:30. Rent a car. I have not figured out a home base, but I will say I'd rather move locations than have long daily commutes.

My interests are
Boat ride around Calanques, see Cassis, drive the coast to La Ciatot, possibly hike somewhere Calanques, but don't want to suck up too much time
Arles and Les Baux and Pont du Gard (some ruins and Pont du gard is a biggie for dh)
Gordes, Rousillon, whatever hill towns fit into the plan
Verdon Gorge, Moustiers (which might be too far out of the way from the rest)

I wonder if I shoud spend first night near Calanques to drop off luggage, fit in as much as possible of Calanques, finish up there the next morning if needed.
Then move to a logical home base for 3 nights that would get us close to arles, Luberon,
Then move to Moustiers/Verdon 1 night?

Thank you again for all your help!!!

Neecy

Also, Stu mentioned in his itinerary that towns are pretty closed up on Sundays and Mondays. This plan would have us in Provence Thurs-Monday, leaving Tues AM for paris. And I was thinking start in the south in Marsailes and work our way up, train for paris from Avignon (unless theres a ridiculous fee to drop of car at a different place). Would i need to reverse this to avoid hill towns on Sun-Mon?

StuDudley

You just described a 2 week trip to Provence.

Immediately toss out the Gorges du Verdon. We have visited it 3-4 times - and unless you want to take a canoe trip down the gorge (one entire day), you won't see much of the gorge itself (too few lookouts - and they are on scary roads). Plus it is VERY far away. If you have visited the Grand Canyon - you will be disappointed, IMO. Read my itinerary.

Cassis & Calenques are out of the way & a bit time consuming.

Stay in St Remy & visit the stuff around St Remy (les Baux, etc). Then spend a day in the Luberon & visit the hill villages and see some lavendin (hybrid lavender that is more robust & blooms sooner) between Goult & Bonnieux. Then the Pont du Gard & Uzes. Visit at least 1 morning farmer's market. St Remy has a Wednesday market.

See my itinerary!!!

Stu Dudley

tomboy

For your itin as in #38 above, take TGV from Avignon to Paris. Fast! Sweet!

We didn't hike the Calanques. Boat ride,+ lunch, = 3 hours.
On to the next